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If carbon is local then why is the warming global??????

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Troy Bruckner, Feb 26, 2019.

  1. Troy Bruckner

    Troy Bruckner Chieftain

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    I am highly annoyed after putting a lot of effort into carbon scrubbing and reducing my footprint to zero only to find out that I can't scrub other players' carbon.
     
  2. Kwami

    Kwami Chieftain

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    The lack of player agency to do anything about other players' CO2 output is rather frustrating. At the very least, we should be able to request that they reduce emissions, call sessions of congress to stop them, etc.
     
    Avenger237 and TheSpaceCowboy like this.
  3. HermannLombard

    HermannLombard Chieftain

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    Such requests haven't worked in the real world, except via lip service. Here's one spot where the game can be realistic.
     
  4. DJ_Tanner

    DJ_Tanner Chieftain

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    But a request, and subsequent ignoring of the request should create grievances the same as any other request.
     
  5. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Chieftain

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    True, but I predict that sometime in the future in real life there will start being some ecnomic sanctions over these issues. Well maybe that's too optimistic ,but they should be in the game.
     
  6. CPWimmer

    CPWimmer Chieftain

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    The problem is that in real life the economic sanctions would be asked for by third tier economies against first tier economies and would be barely noticeable. I don't think China, the US, India, Russia, Japan, and Germany (the top 6 Carbon emitters according to 1 quick chart I looked at) are going to care if low-industrialized countries want to sanction them.
     
  7. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Warlord

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    That's true but the carbon goes everywhere. If I have a net negative in my carbon footprint you'd think it would take some of other civs'.
     
  8. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter Chieftain

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    It must be something within the way the program is written. I think it is a missed opportunity for Firaxis to allow players to have some fun with the game. I was looking forward to letting a game run and seeing if I could scrub all the carbon and refreeze the ice caps.
     
  9. Kwami

    Kwami Chieftain

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    I don't think that we need to consider the real life political situation. The in-game situation isn't great. Let's focus on that.
     
    Dearmad and TheMeInTeam like this.
  10. CPWimmer

    CPWimmer Chieftain

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    I was simply replying to someone else already talking about real life.

    I haven't had a chance to see a lot of Climate Change in game yet, so I haven't formed a strong opinion one way or another on that at this point in time. But I do agree that in-game it is a global problem (as it should be), and in-game solutions should leverage the new global diplomatic mechanics they have added.
     
  11. Atwork

    Atwork Immortal

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    By going carbon-neutral yourself, you're eliminating your carbon emissions, but you're not eliminating the emissions of others.

    So, if all the nations of the world are emitting 1 million tons of carbon levels in the atmosphere, of which you are contributing 100,000 -- and you eliminate your contribution, then there's still 900,000 tons of carbon being emitted into the atmosphere.

    At best, your actions should reduce the rate of climate change caused by carbon in the atmosphere (unless your reductions are offset by increases elsewhere), but your actions alone could not eliminate all carbon based climate change, especially since Earth is capable of absorbing so much carbon. To eliminate climate change caused by human carbon emissions, the total emissions must be brought below the critical threshold, perhaps around 300 to 350 ppm, which would allow the Earth to stabilize and to eventually begin sucking out more carbon from the atmosphere than is produced. In the 1950's, when scientists first started keeping track, it was around 280 ppm. Now it's over 400 ppm and expected to rise past 500 ppm by 2050 which is about where it was at millions of years ago during the Early Oligocene period when life on Earth was vastly different than today.

    I do think that the game mechanics should approximate this, meaning that catastrophic climate change can be avoided only with cooperation and collaboration among multiple nations or groups of nations. The tools and venue for exercising such cooperation, collaboration, and enforcement actions should be through the Global Congress and/or bilateral agreements that others can join. For example, one or more nations could join a Climate Change Alliance and the members of the Alliance would vote as a bloc in the Global Congress.
     
    oakdragon likes this.
  12. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Self-inconsistent abstractions of reality are not and can't be realistic. That's not a matter of opinion, either :p.

    In player case you can easily be one of the "first tier" nations. Strong enough to sanction them with bullets. If we're going to pretend realism here it's nonsense to arbitrarily count it only sometimes.
     
  13. Troy Bruckner

    Troy Bruckner Chieftain

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    I didn't want to make it this a political discussion. I just want the logical ability to scrub other players' carbon.
     
  14. Atwork

    Atwork Immortal

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    I'm not sure what you mean by "political discussion." I see no political discussion in this thread.

    That said, I think the problem with your "logical ability" is your faulty premise. You're assuming that a player's carbon emissions remain traceable to the player that produced the emission. But, that's not the way it works -- scientifically. Carbon is emitted into the atmosphere and becomes all players' problem.

    There has been quite a bit of research and development into industrial carbon scrubbers, but so far it doesn't seem like a viable solution to carbon emissions. Perhaps Civ6 could add this tech to the game and allow players to build carbon scrubbers on a large enough scale to create a global negative carbon footprint.
     
  15. Cosmic Fox

    Cosmic Fox Civ 6 Addict - TB Mod Collaborator

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    :lol: This should be disabled in the game, it is not factual at all. Our solar system is heating up and the planets with it. There is proof of this if anyone looks in the right places. Most main stream academics are stuck with their chosen ideas but truth is we live in an electric Universe. Electromagnetic in fact, since the planet is not heating up due to man, this should be disabled as an annoyance. There should be bonuses in the game for being friendly to the planet rather then raping it. I am just a guy who researches topics for past 45 years. Adding my two cents to the global warming thing. :p
     
    Troy Bruckner likes this.
  16. Pietato

    Pietato Warlord

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    No.

    Wait...you cannot reduce the global carbon already emitted of other civs? But the tooltip thingy suggested you could...

    Did they lie to me through tooltips?
     
  17. Brutus2

    Brutus2 Chieftain

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    I haven't tested it but I'm almost positive I read the same thing. I think it does say in game that after reducing your carbon to zero you can continue reducing the carbon in the atmosphere from other civs.
     
    Pietato likes this.
  18. Xoon

    Xoon Chieftain

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    And what have we learned today?
     
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  19. Troy Bruckner

    Troy Bruckner Chieftain

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    In the weather tab that shows global carbon emissions it lists the Total Carbon in the atmosphere, biggest carbon donator er contributor and your total emissions.
    In my game when the World was at a total of around 1500 carbon my contribution was around 1300. I then switched nearly my entire production to scrubbing, but my contribution hardly dropped. I then switched to nuclear from coal and continued to scrub. Besides nuke plants having to be repaired far too often IHMO carbon emissions dropped drastically and I got my contribution to zero and the World carbon level was 500. I continued scrubbing like mad, but World carbon kept slowly rising up to around 1000. I stopped scrubbing and total carbon was still rising slowly and not the sharp increase that should have happened after I stopped scrubbing.
     
  20. Troy Bruckner

    Troy Bruckner Chieftain

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    In other words they lied in the tool tips.
     
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