If Ronald Reagan was in the game

[RulerOfDaPeople]

What would you say his leadership traits should be?

I think Charismatic is an absolute must. It's what people remember most about him. He's considered "The Great Comunicator".

But the 2nd trait is alot more harder to pick from. Reagan believed in a strong powerful national defense, yet he was not aggresive. (Protective??) He believed in a Free Market and that less taxes for businesses would create more jobs and in turn create more numbers of people paying taxes, and more people being happy for paying lower taxes from their own wallets. This in turn also created the decade of excess as there were more products than you could even count and more businesses in competition with each other for a target consumer. I guess this is one of the reasons why the 80s are remembered so fondly. Yet he was not actually financial as there was a national debt that rose during his presidency. Would you say he's more industrious?

Creative is another thought because during his presidency there was a boom in Movies, Music, Theatre, Memorable Television shows, and arts... and in fact Ronald Reagan was an actor himself so that falls into the catagory of creative. He was also big on the coarts and maintaning order as his incident in California as Governer represents, when he put a quick end to those defiant college hippies riots/protests. That would be organized, but I don't think that best describes his leadership. He also had a very strong philosophy about freedom and liberty where government should let the people choose for themselves rather than having big government where it's citizens are regulated (which is why he was so anti-communism) and he had very innovative ideas about how to grow the economy at the time. So I think that could fall under phylosophy. However Abraham Lincoln is also phylisophical already in Civ 4. So I'm not really sure what Rondald Reagan would be if he were in the game.

I'm guessing either Industrious or Protective to go with Charismatic... what would you say Ronald Reagan would be if in Civ 4?

 

[Agent327]

There already is a Ronald Reagan LH - plus a whole discussion on what his traits should be.

 

[ezolak]

Reagan believed in a strong powerful national defense, yet he was not aggresive.

Tell that to the Granadans.

 

[RulerOfDaPeople]

Tell that to the Granadans.

Granada, Spain? What are you refering to?

 

[btgwynn]

What traits should Clinton have?

 

[RulerOfDaPeople]

What traits should Clinton have?

Slick and Frisky? Joking..

Well this is a Reagan thread, but I'll play along. Financial should be one (don't care about the debate over who gets credit for the economy of the 90s)... and I guess either Organized or Charismatic for the other. Probably Financial and Organized seems closest for William Jefferson Clinton.

I still haven't gotten an answer on Reagan in either thread about what his 2nd trait should be.

 

[Sisiutil]

I would have to say that Charismatic is a given. For the second trait, process of elimination leaves either Aggressive or Financial. Ièd say Financial, the early 80s economy did boom, after all, though his aggressive military stance did a lot to bring about the collapse of the Soviet Union as they tried and failed to keep pace.

I would have a hard time justifying Organized for the President who made the US one of the biggest debtor nations in the world, though.

 

[Agent327]

Granada, Spain? What are you refering to?

Grenada - not Spain.

 

[RulerOfDaPeople]

I would have to say that Charismatic is a given. For the second trait, process of elimination leaves either Aggressive or Financial. Ièd say Financial, the early 80s economy did boom, after all, though his aggressive military stance did a lot to bring about the collapse of the Soviet Union as they tried and failed to keep pace.

I would have a hard time justifying Organized for the President who made the US one of the biggest debtor nations in the world, though.

Good point. But couldn't you also say that for Financial? I guess we would have to ask ourselves what financial really means... if it means financial success, making the US one of the biggest debtor nations in the world would have to go against that trait. After thinking about it some more, I'm more inclined to say Industrious is more appropriate, because his entire economical philosophy was based around industry and creating more market competition and more bussinesses (which we can see by all the excessive options there were in the 1980s).

Do you think Industrious works?

Thank you for your thoughts, by the way.

Grenada - not Spain.

Thanks. The mispelling threw me off. (Granada was typed instead of Grenada)

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

You may be confusing Reagan with Isabella.

Granada was the last place the Moors stayed in.

 

[Justy]

Disclaimer for public disclosure, Reagan was a great President, my personal favorite.

Concerning Reagan and the economy. Reagan's landslide win in 1980 gave him a Republican Senate until the midterm elections. He had the political capital to push through his tax cuts. That lowered the confiscatory rates set back in the 70's. Which kicked the nation into a financial boom. The Democrats did manage to regain total control of the legislature. They saw all the money flying in to the tax coffers from the booming economy and started spending like drunken sailors. Reagan pushed for the line-item veto but it never passed constitutional muster because the legislature will always hold the purse strings (something critics always seem to forget about when talking about Reagan ). So those budgets were two-party affairs. Reagan did push the military spending increases but the Democrats wanted their pay off to grease the wheels. Both parties got exactly what they wanted in the 80's.

The Democrats only gave lip service opposition to his military spending. They were totally along for the ride. They just needed to keep the peaceniks ( )mollified. The same tactic Obama used in his recent election.

So my traits for Reagan would be Charismatic and Protective. Reagan obviously had the charisma. We all agree on that. I have to say protective though because Reagan and NATO never truly wanted anything to do with any invasion of the Eastern Block. Those troops were trained for a defense of Western Europe and Japan. Reagan philosophy was aggressive defense. You make your defenses so impregnable that the military option of the Soviets was taken off the table. There was no way they could compete economically. All they had left was bluster and Gorbachev knew it.That it why Reagan pushed so hard for SDI. Aggressive defense is the strategic philosophy behind SDI. Reagan wanted to push beyond MAD. He wanted a missile shield. He couldn't do it with ABMs because of the treaty. So I say it should be Charismatic and Protective.

 

[ExtraCrispy]

Who is Ronald Regan??

 

[Agent327]

Donald Regan was Secretary of the Treasury, from 1981 to 1985, and Chief of Staff from 1985 to 1987 in the Ronald Reagan Administration, where he advocated "Reaganomics" and tax cuts to create jobs and stimulate production. Regan was criticized for his Prime Ministerial style of working and for his involvement in the Iran-Contra Affair.

 

[Justy]

Who is Ronald Regan??

The 40th President of the United States (1981-1989)

Donald Regan was ...

Donald Regan...

 

[Agent327]

The 40th President of the United States (1981-1989)

That'd be Ronald Reagan.

 

[Justy]

That'd be Ronald Reagan.

I remember when I was a teen and I used to listen to the news. I always used to get them two names confused. It took a little while for it to sink in.

 

[ezolak]

Disclaimer for public disclosure, Reagan was a great President, my personal favorite.

Concerning Reagan and the economy. Reagan's landslide win in 1980 gave him a Republican Senate until the midterm elections. He had the political capital to push through his tax cuts. That lowered the confiscatory rates set back in the 70's. Which kicked the nation into a financial boom. The Democrats did manage to regain total control of the legislature. They saw all the money flying in to the tax coffers from the booming economy and started spending like drunken sailors. Reagan pushed for the line-item veto but it never passed constitutional muster because the legislature will always hold the purse strings (something critics always seem to forget about when talking about Reagan ). So those budgets were two-party affairs. Reagan did push the military spending increases but the Democrats wanted their pay off to grease the wheels. Both parties got exactly what they wanted in the 80's.

The Democrats only gave lip service opposition to his military spending. They were totally along for the ride. They just needed to keep the peaceniks ( )mollified. The same tactic Obama used in his recent election.

So my traits for Reagan would be Charismatic and Protective. Reagan obviously had the charisma. We all agree on that. I have to say protective though because Reagan and NATO never truly wanted anything to do with any invasion of the Eastern Block. Those troops were trained for a defense of Western Europe and Japan. Reagan philosophy was aggressive defense. You make your defenses so impregnable that the military option of the Soviets was taken off the table. There was no way they could compete economically. All they had left was bluster and Gorbachev knew it.That it why Reagan pushed so hard for SDI. Aggressive defense is the strategic philosophy behind SDI. Reagan wanted to push beyond MAD. He wanted a missile shield. He couldn't do it with ABMs because of the treaty. So I say it should be Charismatic and Protective.

I agree with Charismatic/Protective, and this is coming from someone who considers Reagan one of the most overrated Presidents of all time.

 

[Agent327]

Not to repeat the Ronald Reagan LH thread discussion, but Charismatic-Aggressive fits his actual record best. (Both his financial and foreign policies were aggressive, rather than protective.)

 

[Justy]

Not to repeat the Ronald Reagan LH thread discussion, but Charismatic-Aggressive fits his actual record best. (Both his financial and foreign policies were aggressive, rather than protective.)

[Reagan Voice] Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree here. [/Reagan Voice]

 

[Sisiutil]

Good point. But couldn't you also say that for Financial? I guess we would have to ask ourselves what financial really means... if it means financial success, making the US one of the biggest debtor nations in the world would have to go against that trait. After thinking about it some more, I'm more inclined to say Industrious is more appropriate, because his entire economical philosophy was based around industry and creating more market competition and more bussinesses (which we can see by all the excessive options there were in the 1980s).

Do you think Industrious works?

Thank you for your thoughts, by the way.

I rejected Industrious because nothing approaching a wonder was built during his tenure that I can think of.

I tend to associate Financial with how well the overall economy is doing (after a relatively brief recession in the 80s, the American economy did quite well during Regan's time in office), and Organized with how well the government itself is doing, hence my advocacy for Financial as a possibility while rejecting Organized.

After thinking about it, though, I tend to agree with ezolak's assessment both of Reagan overall and of traits appropriate to him: Charismatic and Protective. (I remember a contemporary remark by Bobcat Goldthwaite: "Blaming President Reagan for problems in the government is kind of like blaming Ronald McDonald if you get a lousy hamburger. He ain't the guy in charge, folks..." )