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If there is no War decleard...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by vonork, Jan 31, 2004.

  1. vonork

    vonork Emperor

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    Can it then be any POWs?

    As the USA did not declear war, and I have not heard that Iraq decleard war on the US can it then tecnicaly be any POWs?
     
  2. bobgote

    bobgote Trousers

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    send em all to cuba, i say.
     
  3. Lefty Scaevola

    Lefty Scaevola Moderatus Illuminatus Super Moderator

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    Decalration of war in the USA is not for the purpose of creating a state of war, it is for transfering to and increasing the powers of the executive for dealing with war. A state of war (state of hostilities) exist from the earlier of declaration OR initiation or hostilities. Note the text of the December 1941 declaration against Japan, Rather than initiating war, It acknowledged that a state of war had existed from the time of the Pearl Harbor attack.
    All prisoners taken in combat are subject one of several sets of international rules (there are 4 different 1947 Geneva conventions applying to different types of prisoners and conflicts, each with loophools big enough to sale a battleship through) . The GITMO prisoners do not get the full "POW" status becasue they fail 1 or more of the tests in the Geneva rules for being recognised as regular combatants. All war prisoners do get certain rights regarding minimal humane conditions. The biggest legal question with regard to the GITMO guys is not their conditions or what rights are allowed to their classification, but rather the sufficiancy of the procedure for determining their classification. The convention mearly mentions a hearing for determining such but did not say anything about what such hearing shuold be. The USA has used a purely administrative procedure within the defense department, without any judicial component, and many lawyers feel is rather dubious.
    I find the tens of thousand of persons on the internet who discuss these issues, without, even have looked up the text of the several 1947 Geneva convention protacols, to be rather tedious.
     
  4. Archer 007

    Archer 007 Rebirth

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    I think we need a new treaty in that case, Lefty. The world's worse thing is shadows.
     
  5. Shadylookin

    Shadylookin master debater

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    I think you still have to take pows. Besides whether you have to or not, you should. treating pows humanely is psychological warfare if enemies think they will be treated good they are less likely to fight to the death and it hurts their will to fight
     
  6. Lefty Scaevola

    Lefty Scaevola Moderatus Illuminatus Super Moderator

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    I believe that much of the vagueness and generality in the protocals was not due to lack of drafting skill, but purposely put in in order to secure enough aggrment to pass them. If they had attempted to be more restrictive or specific, there would had been no rules at all.
     
  7. Pontiuth Pilate

    Pontiuth Pilate Republican Jesus!

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    To me it's not an issue of "What can we get away with?" but "What SHOULD we do to uphold the ideal of a democratic humane nation we're constantly shoving in other countries' faces?"
     
  8. Lefty Scaevola

    Lefty Scaevola Moderatus Illuminatus Super Moderator

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    ...and see how often you will be appointed to negotiate or draft mutilateral protacals or treaties. We are talking about dozens of goverments that are trying to find the lowest common denominator to get something aprroved here. The more differing nations sign up to something, the more vague, meaningless, and useless it is going to be. It is amazing when any aggreement spanning the majority of nations has a lot of real effect.
     
  9. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    Makes me wonder the last time there was an actual declaration of war anywhere. I know the US hadn't done it since 1941.

    Anyway, making a huge international treaty like this would probably be a lot like dealing with a hyper Congress. You just have to get as much as possible and be thankful for it...

    And even if war is not declared, you could still declare areas as combat zones.
     
  10. amadeus

    amadeus Kaicho

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    Treaties only work when all parties actually follow them

    The Libyans? Vietnamese? Iraqis? Iranians? Soviets?
     
  11. bobgote

    bobgote Trousers

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    doesn't a state of war still exist in Korea?
     
  12. Souron

    Souron The Dark Lord

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    Or you could send them to the front lines, and use a better proven psycological tactic.

    Moral: psycological warfare is not a suffecient reason to treat prisoners humainly.
     
  13. Souron

    Souron The Dark Lord

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    No they have a cease-fire.
     
  14. Desmond Hawkins

    Desmond Hawkins Deity

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    People gotta think outside the box (this includes the American administration). They are fighting a stateless power. In this war there are no treaties, and it is yet to be seen if a self-proclaimed rules of war will be established (chivalry). It is really impossible to declare war on the combatants in the traditional sense then. This also means that it is becoming harder to create a state as well, thus countries should be more careful before they march into Iraq, and destroy whatever state there was by disbanding the Army and firing everyone. It will become ever more difficult to recreate states once they fail now.
     

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