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If we could be "a fly" on the wall ....

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by ImperialGuard, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. 2K Elizabeth

    2K Elizabeth <span style="font-weight:bold; text-decoration: un

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    2K Greg is over on the 2K Forums - as our official community manager, his first duty is to the official forums, but if you ever want to go over and talk with him, he's free.

    It was great when we got to talk more on Civ fansites and forums, and we still read them daily, but we are but humans and, alas, can't be everywhere doing everything. We're still around via email or on the 2K forums if you need us quickly, though.
     
  2. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    civilization 5.
     
  3. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    a rainy day of December, FireShafer HQ:

    2KSissy(over the phone): "I told you, I told you this organic streamlining was not a good idea... you cannot take everything away from a proven succesful formula!"

    JS:"Yes I can. I just did. I wanted my Panzer General with some cities in between, and I did."

    2KSissy:"Yes, but you missed the long term. And the long term fans are what kept this franchise alive, not the casuals..."

    JS:"It sold a lot in the first weeks, didn't it?"

    2KSissy:"Yes, but only because of our succesful launching campaign... hiding the Demo"

    JS:"I Don't care about the long term... I am a game designer."

    2KSissy:"In the short term...yes"
     
  4. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    With repect Madam, I have ( along with quite a few others as well I might add). In addition, your stating that "his first duty is to the official forums" seems a bit of a misnomer, considering his response time seems to be.....Hmnnn.. A bit lackadaisical ( had to pause and think of a proper sentiment). Not to mention that both you and he have an unerring habit of avoiding, side-stepping, ignoring, or flat out not responding to pertinent questions put forth on your boards.
    While I respect the unenviable position your in ( to some extent), your relations to the fanbase ( at least IMO) that propelled Civ to it's current incarnation has been less than stellar.
     
  5. 2K Elizabeth

    2K Elizabeth <span style="font-weight:bold; text-decoration: un

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    We can't give answers we don't have. That's not side stepping, that's just being truthful. I'm sure no one would appreciate us making things up.

    And as you know, forums are busy - if you ever want to make sure something's answered, email or PM. Again, the human thing - and Greg does far more for you guys and in his position than just posting on forums, so he can't see everything, always. (If you know how to make that happen, let me know. I would like a 25th hour, personally.)
     
  6. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    Figures. Rule of thumb: don't let modders anywhere near the design of a civ game. Add-ons and scenarios, absolutely, but not the main game.
     
  7. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Well, I guess it depends on what modders... some here have demonstrated far more vission than Shafer.
     
  8. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    I think that was only true in relation to Greg's 'FAQ'. But for the game hype that was put out, alot of it has shown to have been 'made up' and clearly wasn't accurate. Either that, or 2K had no idea what was actually happening with game development, and just spit out what they were told. Neither one is better than the other.

    Perhaps it might be more enjoyable to be an angry wasp on 2K and Jon Shafer's wall.
     
  9. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    That reminds me that i could correct some of that infos or take them out, e.g. the question about preloading, which is totally obsolete now.

    Moderator Action: Edit: If someone only has the idea to commmit some harrassement on some peoples walls, be warned. Also the officials are forum members here, so all rules apply, and harrassement will get infracted like for every other user too (I'm not talking about valid questions here).

    Additional note: Responding to moderator actions in public (meaning this read text here) is not allowed in this forum. You can contact me via private message if you have a question about that or if you want to make a remark.


    With a view on FinalFrontier, i have to disagree. That's the second biggest civ4 total conversion (after Afterworld), if you just take a look at gameplay and underlying core mechanics. Even FfH2 is nearer at base BtS than FF.
     
  10. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    I agree. Civ4's scenarios/mods like Dale's AoD2 and a WW2 one were great. That's what I have come to expect, not throwing something into the main game just because you miss it from a previous version or that it gives you more of things you shouldn't have in the first place. I look back on all of those great patches for Civ4 for proof how the main game should evolve. I know that some/many of the fixes/changes came from mods or suggestions but they know the code inside and out and can test things at the core, not from anecdotal evidence.
     
  11. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Your opinion, mine is completely the opposite. In any case, his real test was the latest design, and the forums are full of claims that he fell well short of any comendable acomplishment.
     
  12. lietkynes

    lietkynes Hello sword !

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    I don't understand why people think that Civ4 was the pinnacle of game design. It was a great game but it had many flaws, just like Civ5. Surely Civ5 also has awful bugs and some rushed incomplete features, but that will be fixed hopefully in the next patches.

    Civ5 doesn't have bad game design, all the new ideas and concept are very cool, they are just not well balanced. Civ5 needed more time for balance, tweaks, bug fixing and writing of the rushed/missing features. Unfortunatey they didn't have that time, so the game came out incomplete. It sucks and it's very bad for Firaxis reputation, but they will get there in 1-2 patches, and the game will be just ok like the previous Civ games.

    Really I don't understand all the hate on poor Shafer. If you want to hate him, hate him for espionage in Civ4, boy it sucked :D

    p.s.
    it would be nice to know, just for the sake of it, who is responsible for Civ5 beeing released incomplete.
    It was Firaxis that finished late ?
    Or 2K cut their budget ?
    Maybe the initial cost estimate was wrong ?
     
  13. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Edit: I think that's what really everyone wants to know, but i guess we can be 100% sure, that we'll never know that :(.

    It depends how you look at it.
    The design had flaws, right.
    But with a look what has been the base, and what idea behind FF stood and what has bee done with it, i think it has been a nice and suitable choice for a mod with a partially good implementation.
    Note here: FF+ (to be found in the modpacks forum) is enhancing and fixing the problems with FF.
    But i can see from where you are comming from. Gameplay has it's problems there, and that's sure a bigger part.
     
  14. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    All I know that Civ4 was a challenge for me to play and that I always turned off espionage. Something got missed in the translation.
     
  15. vincentz

    vincentz Programmer

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    Did you try the SuperSpies mod. Its implemented in most of the bigger mods. It enhances the espionage and make it acceptable (even enjoyable at times :))
     
  16. ImperialGuard

    ImperialGuard Prince

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    I did a google search on the following to no avail:

    stardock new recruit who bloats designs
    ironically found this article praising stardock:http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21876

    stardock doesn't listen to tester feedback

    stardock trend of releasing crap on day 0


    maybe I just don't know how to use a search engine properly, because you assured me I'd find this in two minutes :rolleyes:
     
  17. PawelS

    PawelS Ancient Druid

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    Well, Dale never said these exact sentences can be found on Google, they could have been worded differently.
     
  18. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    I was talking about his latest design as a designer, not a modder... a.k.a. civ5.
     
  19. ImperialGuard

    ImperialGuard Prince

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    Game review sites .... really ?? Paid marketing by a guy who spends a couple hours with the game .... really ??

    MetaCritic:
    Game Sites aggregate: 90/100 (and 100's from some pretty dubious sites.... )

    User aggregate: 72/100 with 54/93 users giving it a mixed or a negative review.


    :rotfl: :rotfl:
     
  20. ImperialGuard

    ImperialGuard Prince

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    Your right of course, his response to my post was that it's common knowledge.....but the reality is he imparted his personal opinions (the three comments I googled as an example).

    Obviously he has a rage-on for Stardock/Brad for some reason ?

    and I'm baiting him to see if he will break his self imposed ban again :devil:
     

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