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If you could improve Civ 4 in any way, how would you do it?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Lemon Merchant, Aug 6, 2016.

  1. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    1. Fix the UI. Seriously, in every strategy game I've played in the last decade, this has been a dismal consistency.
    2. Late game turn times --> much better than 5, but that's like saying consuming something is better than shotgunning pellets into your foot. It's true but not giving much confidence in quality of consumption.
    3. Yes, TAP/Espionage need the rework. Bugged overflow too.
    4. Pre-siege dependence on RNG. If you fight after catapults, the battle dice ability to screw you is enormously less skewed.
    5. No more game throwing by the AI please.
     
  2. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

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    Firaxis rebooting Civ 4?? Tough to imagine what that could possibly mean :crazyeye:

    I would make a total conversion using modern day leaders like Obama and Merkel, starting the game in the current year and moving forward through the most likely course of history from today. So the game would start with the map fully populated and all civs equal, and the goal is to be first to tear your civ down till it's just a settler who knows a maximum of 2 techs and has no gold. Combat would consist of persuading your units and cities to join other civs. Tech would consist of burning books and unlearning, allowing you to rebury your coal, horses etc. and reinstate a comforting fog of ignorance over the map. Great people would be Forrest Gump, Yogi Berra and the like who would let you unlearn techs in one go, or go and pull down wonders. Religion would follow a similar rise-and-fall through the game as now, but would be discovered by unlearning key modern era techs like the internet.

    Any other ideas? Could be a winner. "Decivilization"?
     
  3. Pepo

    Pepo Prince

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    64 bits support and multi-core support
     
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  4. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    64 bit please along with improved graphics.

    Other than that, probably better AI.
     
  5. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    There is a way, but they would have to be open-minded at a level that I doubt they can even imagine (judging by their behavior during the last 6 years).

    At one time, Paradox decided to franchise-out their Europa engine, and one of the greatest incarnations of the HoI series (much better than HOI4, mind you) was born from the hands of individuals that were, up to that point, only players and fans of Hearts of Iron 2. Thus, Darkest Hour was born, is still being patched, and to many, is the best HoI so far (and by far).

    FXS could do something similar with Soren's magnificent engine, and I am sure a group will rise from these very forums and create something amazing.

    If only they had an open mind...:rolleyes:
     
  6. nate46

    nate46 Warlord

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    One thing I would do is make strategic resources visible before you have the tech for them. Its kindof silly to tech iron working if you don't know whether or not you have iron -- and it makes the whole thing a gamble, since if you're planning to attack with swords, you don't know if the attack has any chance of success until right as you get the tech. This is one of the big reasons that sword rushes are hardly ever done on higher difficulty level -- they'd be a decent option for agg civs on Immortal (probably wouldn't work on deity)... if it wasn't a total crapshoot to find iron.

    I think Bronze working should reveal iron, even if you can't work it yet, and mining should reveal copper, and hunting should reveal horses.

    another thing i'd do is Open up civics earlier. Some civics come so late that they basically never get used, even though they would make for interesting decision making if they came sooner...

    example -- Serfdom. Comes from feudalism which is way way too late to be useful. If it came from, say, animal husbandry, it would be an interesting decision whether to run slavery or serfdom early game.

    The game also needs a "No Nukes" option in the custom games list. Like, if you check this box, Uranium doesn't ever appear as a resource.
     
  7. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Complete agreement.
     
  8. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    #1 happed in Master of Orion 2 automatically, as soon as we built Transports for food to cover a new planet. That same manner could be duplicated as small horse drawn carts once the appropriate tech was researched and a cart built.

    #2 was done in the Realism Invictus mod. I agree, it penalizes stacks enough to encourage smaller stacks.

    I like both of these ideas. :)

    I would suggest:
    1. Change how combat works for Ranged Units.
    If a Warrior attacks an Archer, which has 1 first strike, we should see that archer do some damage to the Warrior before the Warrior makes his attack.
    Catapults, Trebuchets and Hwachas should have the same situation when attacked by an Archer and be able to bombard from an adjacent tile.
    Cannons thru all later Artillery should have this same mechanism for Catapults, Trebuchets and Hwachas and be able to bombard from an additional tile away.
    This gives longer ranged units an advantage.

    2. Change how combat works for damage purposes.
    I'm sure we have all had that highly promoted units with a 99% chance to win die to a vastly inferior unit. Some of us might have stood up and screamed at the monitor. Maybe, even reloaded the last save over our disbelief that our unit lost.
    It's a game. It's supposed to be fun, not cause anger.

    I would initiate a minimum threshold for survivability and proportional damage added.
    We would have to choose some acceptable number (as I wait for those who bash any number I am about to say).
    I was thinking around 8%. So if a unit has over a 92% chance to succeed, it couldn't die.
    Instead, it would take damage according to how lethal the hit was randomly generated for that attack. Essentially, less damage for the unit with a 99% chance of success, more damage for the unit with a 92.1% chance of success.
    So, the 99% chance to succeed unit won't be at 0.1 strength after winning. Which is very annoying.
    Some damage limit would have to be devised. Like damage could not exceed double the chance of failure.
    If one has a 92.1% chance to succeed, one would win and not sustain more than 15.8% damage.

    The same would apply to units with less than an 8% chance to win.
    Meaning, the 7.9% chance to succeed unit would still be lost, but would do more damage than the 1% chance unit would.
    Anything in the range of 8%-92% would remain the same.
    The same damage limit would apply. Like damage could not exceed double the chance of success.
    If one has a 7.9% chance of success, one could not be expected to do more than 15.8% damage.

    This would make the extremes more like we expect them to be. Successful, or Not worth wasting our units on, so retreat is advisable. Yet, both can still be used to damage the foe.
    It just eliminates the extremely unlikely scenario of less than 8% chance of complete success.
    So, what benefits me at the highest percentages, hurts me at the lowest percentages. Balancing things out.
     
  9. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

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    Eliminate all forms of rushbuying whatsoever. Make having a good production site actually mean something.
     
  10. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    Basically what you're saying is that a 12 sided dice should not have the number 1 on any face to avoid the "extremely unlikely scenario" of rolling a 1.

    The game tells you your odds for winning a battle, and this is how it should be. Having it say 92% when it's actually 100% or 8% when it is actually 0% would make no sense at all.
     
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  11. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    No Problem. I knew I'd get that response.

    For some, they want 100% random, all the time. You die on a 99% chance and you don't care.
    I like random, most of the time, 84% of the time. As I said, I had to pick a number.
    I hate losing on a 99% chance to win.
    I, as a human, sometimes feel like the game cheated. I finally am playing a game where I have the CHA trait or Imperialistic and maybe have a GG attached to a unit. I get it uberly promoted and... the game karma kills it off. :mad:

    Now, I don't want to win all of the time and I feel it's ridiculous when I win on a 1% chance. Maybe, its the spearman vs tank kind of thing.
    It's like I really shouldn't have one. It feels like a cheat happened. Did I deserve it?

    Kind of like one of those rare games one might play when, popping a goody hut on an easy difficulty randomly gets you a free settler. Then later you get a free technology from other huts. I start thinking, ok does this game really count towards my success? It feels like cheating too much.

    I know your going to say, "I don't play with goody huts" and maybe no to the rest earlier.

    Like I said, I chose a number, maybe 5% is better than 8%, everyone's different.
    I want it to be mostly random, just not so random that ridiculous odds come up during this kind of game.
    If I was playing a board game, that's different. Dice are dice. It's usually d6. However, if you were playing a board game and rolled a 20 on a d20. It usually means critical success. You expect success at whatever you did, but actually kills you. You would be pissed.

    What is it in math, the Statistical Average? They do it when scoring certain athletic events.
    Where you remove the lowest and highest numbers in a list. Then average out the rest. That sort of thing. I want to remove the lowest and highest chances of death from the equation and keep the rest.
    Whatever acceptable percentage is generally agreed upon. Maybe, its 3% and 97%.
    I just don't like losing on extremely high chances of success and feel like the game errored when I win on extremely low chances.
    Does that make sense?
     
  12. SittinDown

    SittinDown King Supporter

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    ...cities have health in Civ 4 - why not armies in the field too? Each stack could have a healthiness amount related to how far they are from your own territory, how recently they pillaged, what type of terrain they're on, your own resource diversity of your empire, and various techs you can get. Each stack also has unhealthiness, and each unit in the stack contributes to unhealthiness. Being in jungles or around flood plains also increases that. Spy actions can poison water in a unit stack, which could cause the stack to have to disperse.

    If you have net unhealthiness you take progressively more damage, like how siege damage works. It maybe can't kill your units, but it can weaken each unit up to 80% leaving a massed-stack completely unable to attack, and very open to a counterattack by just about any unit.


    ....based on thoughts about real massed armies. In the 1860's in America it was common for 150,000 soldiers (Gettysburg, Antietam, or Vicksburg) to be massed in a very small area, which on just about any map size would be 1-2 tiles. 2/3 of all deaths were from disease.

    By WW2 - vaccinations were common, and we knew about germs, supply chains could be fed by air / truck, and since mobility was higher, armies tended to spread out more. Military deaths by diseases were much lower.

    In the 1810's Napoleon's grand army that had swept all over Europe was beaten by a retreating and dodging Russian force that deprived it of supplies by pillaging their own land. Napoleon's army died of disease brought on by hunger and cold more than a combat defeat.
     
  13. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    That would be interesting.

    Maybe say that so long as the troops are marching thru tiles that have at least 1 food, they are fed. Otherwise a Cart/Wagon Train/Food truck would have to be built and travel with the stack.

    If a unit with at least the Medic1 promotion is in the stack, then units health do not deteriorate.

    These kinds of steps would also deter travel thru deserts or other inhospitable tiles.

    I like it. :)
     
  14. Civ4_boi

    Civ4_boi Chieftain

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    I'm still quite happy with Civ4 BTS, I'm still playing it nearly every day.

    I use PIG mod, occasionally K-Mod for more challenging AI. I use PIG more because it has better GUI than K mod, which is annoying because K mod is really good.

    I find most annoyances in the AI, like constant begging, can usually be solved by increasing the size of my army.

    As has been mentioned, a 64-bit version, but would I even notice the difference?

    The main thing is the AI though.

    I'd like to see other resources utilised by the corporations.
     
  15. vincentz

    vincentz Programmer

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    If civ4 was changed to multicore 64bit it would boost lategame turnspeeds with 1038.7% *

    *(Values may change)
     
  16. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    Wait multicore?
    I have a Quad Core. You mean it actually uses all 4 cores? More if one has them?

    I knew about the 64-bit part. I wonder about the other, because of mods like C2C that take forever even if you click on something from their Civilopedia.
    Good to know. :)

    I liked the PIG mod too Civ4_boi, but since it wasn't multiplayer, I couldn't use it.
    Mostly a Realism Invictus mod player now.
    Try that one, you'll be impressed with the graphics. They are better than the base game and C2C's jumble of colors. I have a hard time going back to those.
    I saw a BTS GOTM and thought I can't go back to that. LOL.
     
  17. gimley_gunner

    gimley_gunner Chieftain

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    I know it must have been due to budget reasons but I wish Leonard Nimoy had done the tech quotes that Sid does in BTS for consistency. Sorry Sid...
     
  18. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Budget reasons might be too simple. I agree with you by the way.

    Thing is that getting someone of that stature to do a voice acting gig is going to have a certain minimum requirement. Like there is no way to make it financially sensible to pay his minimum for just a few lines. If they had included in the original contract "we will need you back for a brief additional session later" they may have been able to manage it.
     
  19. 6K Man

    6K Man Bureaucrat

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    I wish they had taken the money they gave Nimoy and spent it on programming a better AI. They could have had a Fran Drescher impersonator with a stutter voice the tech quotes, for all that matters to me. :p

    (sorry, don't mean to pick on you in particular, but the focus on style over substance is killing the Civ series)
     
  20. Playsoneasy

    Playsoneasy Chieftain

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    But... Baba Yetu! BABA YETU! :cry:

    I agree. Civ 5 was a beautifully presented game but too many of the game mechanics went awry. Even Civ4 has problems that could have been ironed out.

    I want the devs to remember what Civ is meant to be about, rather than focussing on beautiful graphics and presentation.
     

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