Illegal Immigrant Driver's Licenses?

[The Yankee]

link

Homeland Security, New York agree on new driver's licenses

* Story Highlights
* New York consents to a three-tier license system
* Government has been trying to make identification cards more secure
* Arizona, Vermont and Washington have reached similar deals
* New York will allow illegal immigrants to get a version of the new IDs

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Bush administration and New York cut a deal Saturday to create a new generation of super-secure driver's licenses for U.S. citizens, but also allow illegal immigrants to get a version.

New York is the fourth state to reach an agreement on federally approved secure licenses, after Arizona, Vermont and Washington.

The issue is pressing for border states, where new and tighter rules are soon to go into effect for crossings.

The Arizona deal announced in August does not contemplate issuing licenses to illegal immigrants, said Jeanine L'Ecuyer, a spokeswoman for Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano.

The proposed Arizona version would not be available to anyone illegally in the country, since one of the intended uses of the 3-in-1 identity card would be to prove U.S. citizenship, L'Ecuyer said.

It could be used as a license, as proof of citizenship and as a passport-like document valid for travel in Canada, the U.S. and Mexico.

It would be voluntary and available for a small extra fee.

"It is something that clearly would not be available for people who are in the county illegally," L'Ecuyer said.

The New York deal comes about one month after Gov. Eliot Spitzer announced a plan whereby illegal immigrants with a valid foreign passport could obtain a license.

Saturday's agreement with the Homeland Security Department will create a three-tier license system in New York. It is the largest state to sign on so far to the government's post-September 11 effort to make identification cards more secure.

Spitzer, who has faced much criticism on the issue, said the deal means New York "will usher in the most secure licensing system in the nation."

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he was not happy that New York intended to issue IDs to illegal immigrants. But he said there was nothing he could do to stop it.

"I don't endorse giving licenses to people who are not here legally, but federal law does allow states to make that choice," Chertoff said.

The governor made clear he is going forward with his plan allowing licenses for illegal immigrants.

But advocates on both sides of the debate said Spitzer had caved to pressure by adopting the administration's stance on tighter security standards for most driver's licenses.

GOP Rep. Thomas Reynolds, who represents the Buffalo suburbs, said he was glad Washington had heeded his concerns about border identification. But he said he feared that Spitzer "is taking this state down a risky path" by giving any kind of license to illegal immigrants.

Under the compromise, New York will produce an "enhanced driver's license" that will be as secure as a passport. It is intended for people who soon will need to meet such ID requirements, even for a short drive to Canada.

A second version of the license will meet new federal standards of the Real ID Act. That law is designed to make it much harder for illegal immigrants or would-be terrorists to obtain licenses.

A third type of license will be available to undocumented immigrants.

Spitzer has said this ID will make the state more secure by bringing those people "out of the shadows" and into American society, and will lower auto insurance rates.

Those licenses will be clearly marked to show they are not valid federal ID.

Officials, however, would not say whether that meant local law enforcement could use such a license as probable cause to detain someone they suspected of being in the U.S. illegally.

"Besides being a massive defeat for the governor, I can't imagine many -- if any -- illegal immigrants coming forward to get the driver's licenses, because they'd basically be labeled as illegal," said New York Rep. Peter King, the top Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee.

New York has between 500,000 and 1 million undocumented immigrants, many of whom are driving without a license and car insurance or with fake driver's licenses, Spitzer said in September when he announced his executive order.

So, what do you think about such programs? Personally, I'm against it. Why should someone whose first act was in this country was in defiance of the law have the right to drive on our roads?

Spitzer has been making the argument that this will enhance safety, as immigrants with licenses will then go out and get auto insurance. Somehow, I don't see how this will be the case. And, if Social Security cards can be forged or stolen, why couldn't there be some entrepreneurial types that could replicate the new licenses?

It doesn't help that I recently looked over the DMV requirements to get a non-driver ID and had saw that in addition to the college ID (which counts for two of the six points needed), I'd need an academic transcript to make it valid. Which means that I'll have to wait another two weeks while I get the transcript. And, altogether, I'd need to bring my birth certificate, electric bill, Social Security card, ATM card, college ID, and transcript just to qualify to get this non-driver ID. Of course, there are many other forms of ID accepted, but they mostly require a state ID to get in the first place. Nice catch-22. So that's six items I need to bring just to get this ID. But someone who violated the law and has a passport from their native land can walk right in, it seems.

Tell me what you think. I think Eliot Spitzer's gone crazy.

BTW, this is off-topic...but since it takes five weeks or so for the slow DMV here to get me the license, is it possible to fly with the temporary ID they say they give out after you apply?

 

[Trajan12]

Couldn't they just deport anyone who came to apply for the special illegal's license...

Or is NY a 'sanctuary city'?

 

[amadeus]

F'ing outrageous.

 

[The Yankee]

I believe Giuliani made this a sanctuary city, but the licenses would apply statewide. I do not think there will be any kind of obvious item that would say "Hey, this guy isn't a legal resident."

 

[Damnyankee]

So, what do you think about such programs? Personally, I'm against it. Why should someone whose first act was in this country was in defiance of the law have the right to drive on our roads?

Spitzer has been making the argument that this will enhance safety, as immigrants with licenses will then go out and get auto insurance. Somehow, I don't see how this will be the case. And, if Social Security cards can be forged or stolen, why couldn't there be some entrepreneurial types that could replicate the new licenses?

It doesn't help that I recently looked over the DMV requirements to get a non-driver ID and had saw that in addition to the college ID (which counts for two of the six points needed), I'd need an academic transcript to make it valid. Which means that I'll have to wait another two weeks while I get the transcript. And, altogether, I'd need to bring my birth certificate, electric bill, Social Security card, ATM card, college ID, and transcript just to qualify to get this non-driver ID. Of course, there are many other forms of ID accepted, but they mostly require a state ID to get in the first place. Nice catch-22. So that's six items I need to bring just to get this ID. But someone who violated the law and has a passport from their native land can walk right in, it seems.

Tell me what you think. I think Eliot Spitzer's gone crazy.

BTW, this is off-topic...but since it takes five weeks or so for the slow DMV here to get me the license, is it possible to fly with the temporary ID they say they give out after you apply?

I agree. It is a violation of American sovereignty. It is harder for an American citizen to get a license then an illegal immigrant. He needs to be impeached.

 

[El_Machinae]

I think it's crazy that an illegal immigrant could get a driver's license.

 

[Arwon]

Yeah, those visa overstaying Europeans really get on my nerves.


What?

 

[Bill3000]

I'm more surprised that the federal government actually agreed to compromise, myself...

I agree. It is a violation of American sovereignty. It is harder for an American citizen to get a license then an illegal immigrant. He needs to be impeached.

Regardless of whether or not it is a bad thing, how the hell is it a violation of American sovereignty if it's issued by America?

 

[The Yankee]

Yeah, those visa overstaying Europeans really get on my nerves.


What?

If they're overstaying their visas, why shouldn't it apply to them too?

[waits for the usual "You hate Mexicans!" rant that usually comes in threads like these]

I'm more surprised that the federal government actually agreed to compromise, myself...

I figure they're hedging their bets. I don't think they could stop New York (or those other states) from issuing the licenses, unless Congress made a law (and signed by the President, that whole deal) to override the states. So, they might as well try to have such issued licenses conform to some kind of DHS standard.

Yet I believe it could give even more reason for states to go for it if they have people clamoring to give them such licenses.

 

[IglooDame]

So much for Eliot Spitzer's political capital. He's spending it all on a cause that isn't likely to get him much return on his investment.

 

[The Yankee]

I do have to wonder whether Spitzer went crazy since he was inaugurated at the beginning of the year. It isn't just this. He tried to go after Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno (another puke, IMO) for using a state helicopter to attend political events. But, when it was revealed by internal memos that there was a plan to go after Bruno for political points, it's since backfired on him tremendously.

Things can't be good if I'm about to long for George Paturkey Pataki. Though, admittedly, I could see him going for such a licenses plan as well.

 

[Bill3000]

Things can't be good if I'm about to long for George Paturkey Pataki. Though, admittedly, I could see him going for such a licenses plan as well.

Oh, jesus. That is bad.

 

[The Yankee]

Oh, jesus. That is bad.

Scary, isn't it?

link

"The policy change is critical to ensuring the safety and security of New Yorkers and the governor would never abdicate this foremost obligation simply to appease those peddling fear and hatred," a Spitzer spokeswoman, Christine Anderson, said after the hearing.

I don't know why everyone that finds resistance with such plans runs for the "OMG YOU ARE A HATEMONGER!" button, but this is getting real old, real fast. If they cannot at least see why people would have concerns over it, then they can continue to see their support drop. Maybe they're too sure that Bloomberg wouldn't turn around and run for Governor in 2010 and that the NY GOP will stay in its shattered state.

Seventy-two percent of voters in Monday's Siena College poll said they were opposed to "the governor's plan to allow undocumented immigrants to get New York driver's licenses." Twenty-two percent of those polled supported the plan of the once widely popular governor, according to the Siena Research Institute.

Seventy-two percent is about how much of the vote Spitzer won in last year's election. It takes talent to destroy that so quickly.

Of course, you can't take a poll and go with it on every issue. But if only 22% support a plan, either it really isn't a good idea or the administration has done a lousy job trying to convince the public that this is a sound policy.

 

[IglooDame]

Of course, you can't take a poll and go with it on every issue. But if only 22% support a plan, either it really isn't a good idea or the administration has done a lousy job trying to convince the public that this is a sound policy.

And this issue doesn't seem to have a "sound policy" backing in the first place - if there is a hidden intelligent argument buried beneath the waves, I've yet to hear it (and would certainly welcome someone bringing it up here).

 

[The Yankee]

And this issue doesn't seem to have a "sound policy" backing in the first place - if there is a hidden intelligent argument buried beneath the waves, I've yet to hear it (and would certainly welcome someone bringing it up here).

I would too. If it were so obvious that this is good policy, then I obviously need it said slowly and LOUDLY so that I can get behind it, too.

 

[Merkinball]

Spitzer is really getting the what for handed to him upstate.

Monroe county (Rochester metro, suburbs) has flat out told Albany they are not going to implement his plan. Even if the state cuts funding. Erie County has, in my opinion, gone one step further, and said they will implement it, but if illegals apply for a licence, they will be reported to the authorities and be deported.

And these are traditionally liberal leaning counties so far as upstate NY is concerned. It's great. Seeing Spitzer get what he deserves...

Also, if Jeb Bush would have done what Spitzer did to Bruno, it would have been in the national limelight for weeks.

 

[skadistic]

But every one is safer when illegals have a license and car insurance. Because when you have those things you never wreck your car or drink and drive.!!!!!!!!


Thats the excuse I hear as the reason to reward criminals.

 

[EdwardTking]

And this issue doesn't seem to have a "sound policy" backing in the first place - if there is a hidden intelligent argument buried beneath the waves, I've yet to hear it (and would certainly welcome someone bringing it up here).

The hidden intelligent argument might be:

(a) we (the neocon elite accountants) plan to clear the deficit by
charging all USA drivers a minimum of 5 thousand dollars a year
for a licence; which will beam their position to us so we know
where they are

but most of them they already have one; ugh; slight problem; so

(b) we will devalue their existing licences by giving them out to
illegal immigrants, pedophiles, babboons and mental incompetents;

and then, when they find that the devalued license is no good as
identification or for getting insurance or for buying alcohol;

(c) we can charge them for a very high tech:

'steadfast citizen card' at a $5,000 dollars a year

which will be greatly valued because the illegals and poors won't
be able to afford it; or perhaps even a

'VIP card'; at a $50,000 dollars a year

who will be allowed to speed as much as they like;
and police officers will be compelled to salute them;

while the budget $100 dollar licences will merely permit
one to ride a bicycle.


Could be a good way of getting illegal immigrants to volunteer addresses, employers. phtotos, finger prints and DNA; prior to being transported to ...

 

[.Shane.]

Just curious if anyone can answer this w/out having a spasm...

If driver licenses are state-issued and immigration status is a federal issue.... aren't we misreading this? What I mean is, its not the state's job to determine if you're here legally or not, is it? So, its not so much that the state is OMG FINDING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND GIVING THEM LICENSES so much as its just them giving a license to a state resident who applies. IE, driver's licenses are not the appropriate filter to identify illegal aliens.

So, how do the states-rights, anti-(illegal)immigrant folks on the forum handle the cognitive dissonance on this issue?

Also, isn't the defacto reality that very few illegal immigrants would actually come forward to get a license, at least in NY?

 

[Merkinball]

If that's the case, then NYS, well Eliot Spitzer anyhow, is superceding federal law and should be jailed.