I'm a brain in a jar

[El_Machinae]

Well, my avatar is anyway. Does that stink? Maybe, but not so much, now that we can control robots using brainwaves.

In a video demonstration in Tokyo, brain signals detected by a magnetic resonance imaging scanner were relayed to a robotic hand. A person in the MRI machine made a fist, spread his fingers and then made a V-sign. Several seconds later, a robotic hand mimicked the movements.
....
What Honda calls a "brain-machine interface" is an improvement over past approaches, such as those that required surgery to connect wires. Other methods still had to train people in ways to send brain signals or weren't very accurate in reading the signals, Kamitani said.

Link

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Crazy cool. This may certainly lead to usable prosthetics and whatnot, and who knows what else.

 

[Rambuchan]

I remember reading about this kind of thing about 2 years ago, saying it was possible. Great to see it can be!

El Mach: If you look out of your window right now and look at the biggest tree you can see there, well, see how those branches are moving? That's me from here, and that's my Robotree

and if you can't see a tree then I must have the wrong poster, look to the cars instead

 

[El_Machinae]

A couple years ago, they were attaching monitors to the head, and then ascribing actions to the robot, based on certain inputs. Then, over time, the patient actually learned how to control the robot (much in the same way you can teach yourself to do something you're not used to doing ... wiggling your ears, writing with your off-hand).

In this case, the patient is actually just opening and closing his hand - and the computer can tell what he's doing enough to mimick it. This means that we're getting better at reading brainwaves and understanding them. Wow.

Ram: your control is amazing, because the big tree is moving in tandem with the little trees. To so closely mimick the blowing wind is quite the skill.

PS: I used the camera that was closest to my brain, to see the tree. 'Cause my cameras are everywhere!

 

[Rambuchan]

Question is: What's the next step after this one?

Ram: your control is amazing, because the big tree is moving in tandem with the little trees. To so closely mimick the blowing wind is quite the skill.

PS: I used the camera that was closest to my brain, to see the tree. 'Cause my cameras are everywhere!

Thanks dude. I never told you that my powers were the inspiration behind that film "The Truman Show" did I? Well I hope that offers some explanation. Oh and I just did a nice little triple plop plunge in the toilet just now. Hope you caught that one on cam #33102. And don't worry, mic #441212 got it's chip replaced, so the sound should all be fully synched up.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, currently the brain scanning device is an MRI machine. Those are huge, expensive machines that require a host of techs to operate. We don't have enough of them for the demand - not by a long-shot. (I'm considering purchasing part of one as an investment, but Canada is tough on privatized health services, and I don't know how the law will change. Grr.).

What we need is a smaller device. I don't know how much the magnets involved can shrink, honestly. So, while our resolving power goes up, I don't know if the machines will become smaller.

Amino acid analysis is done. You need more veggies, friend

 

[Thorgalaeg]

This means that we're getting better at reading brainwaves and understanding them. Wow.

No, this means that somebody has recorded the brain global activity patron of a guy opening and closing his hand and has used a robot to do a similar movement when the same patron is detected in that guy. That does not mean whe can understand how brain works any better.

 

[The Last Conformist]

My brain is in a Mi-Go Brain Cylinder.

 

[GenMarshall]

So this would lead into advancements into prostetic bodies and other cybernetics?

 

[Tenochtitlan]

Wow. This is interesting. We need to get 'higher resolution' readers though for more complex actions, wouldn't we?. And another thing about brain activity, it seems far too complicated to be interpreted by machines, for now atleast.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

A couple years ago, they were attaching monitors to the head, and then ascribing actions to the robot, based on certain inputs. Then, over time, the patient actually learned how to control the robot (much in the same way you can teach yourself to do something you're not used to doing ... wiggling your ears, writing with your off-hand).

In this case, the patient is actually just opening and closing his hand - and the computer can tell what he's doing enough to mimick it. This means that we're getting better at reading brainwaves and understanding them. Wow.

O RLY?

I have a long story about that... It begins here. It rambles on through the minds of many people walking the line between genius and insanity. But that isn't done on CFC, so I'll skip to the point:

Almost any sort of I/O to the brain will be adapted to.

Graft two arms on someone, or a tail, and in half a year the brain will have a new cortex region to control that appendage, as long as the appendage starts with a few nerves in place, and the room to grow some more.
Professional fighter pilots have brain areas that manage the HUD that they're so often viewing. Back when I was a serious gamer and played Diablo 2, with the minimap turned on, for several hours a day over the course of a year, I felt partially blinded when I turned the minimap off. It was like I had lost a sense.

So this would lead into advancements into prostetic bodies and other cybernetics?

With what I described above, prosthetic bodies are mostly a matter of creating limbs that can connect reliably and safely to the brain. Then the brain will learn how to use them, given a few months' time. Probably less, since limbs are so frequently in use and there would be more pressure to learn to control them.

My brain is in a Mi-Go Brain Cylinder.

Yay for obscure cthonic references.

 

[El_Machinae]

Graft two arms on someone, or a tail, and in half a year the brain will have a new cortex region to control that appendage

We saw that in monkeys. We'd destroy regions of the brain that controlled limbs, and saw (over time) how new regions would develop control over the arms again. That was pretty cool.

Similar to how the fellow can control the mouse just by thinking about it. He's learned how to modify his brain activity to send understandable messages to the computer.

 

[GenMarshall]

With what I described above, prosthetic bodies are mostly a matter of creating limbs that can connect reliably and safely to the brain. Then the brain will learn how to use them, given a few months' time. Probably less, since limbs are so frequently in use and there would be more pressure to learn to control them.

I guess that what partly explains on the difficulties Major Kusanagi had when she was younger who had to control the use of her prostetic body.

 

[.Shane.]

Reminds me of that Star Trek episode... "I bid 500 quatloos on the newcomers"

<star trek nerds feel free to correct me>

 

[Alpine Trooper]

My CPU is a nero-net processor. A learning computer.

 

[Yuri2356]

Almost any sort of I/O to the brain will be adapted to.

Graft two arms on someone, or a tail, and in half a year the brain will have a new cortex region to control that appendage, as long as the appendage starts with a few nerves in place, and the room to grow some more.

I've heard of this, but I still have a major question: What effect does adapting to a new limb have on the brain's other functions? When it creates this new reigon, is it reallocating old nerves, (Which once served some other task) adding new nerves to take over the task, or just adding a new task to the abilities of an existing part?

If getting something new installed cuts back on your ability to use what you already have, novelty limbs may not get as much of a market. Replacements, of course, but you may not see a lot of third arms being sold.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, that's a neat question. We underuse our brains, for sure (which is why 'exercising the brain' staves off neural degeneration). OTOH, it is a phyiscal storage unit, and does only have so much capacity.

We see this with people who have been blind their entire lives, and then a surgery will correct it. Their brains don't adapt to vision very quickly at all, and at a glacial pace when compared to babies. This is because, in some ways, the neural networks are competing with other useful functions that the recently-augmented fellow continues to use.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

I found the thread! Remember, it starts with this funky picture, so there will be some derailing.

http://forums.keenspot.com/viewtopic.php?t=77820&highlight=graft+cortex

The interesting stuff begins on page 7. Some excerpts:

Some of the experiments I mentioned have added stuff in really weird places (like an ear to a rat's back), stuff where there was definitely nothing to begin with, and the nervous system still adapted. One could say our motor centers are based mainly around adjusting to the feedback it gets and not so much any number of limbs at all.

...

You don't even need to graft the appendage - the brain will develop a new region specific to any constant input if it hangs around for more than about six months; documented cases include a guy who wore a computer with a spectacle-mounted HUD for so long that he adapted a new section of cortex to deal with the data specifically.

Oops, I guess it wasn't a fighter pilot. That must have been another thread, but I can't find that thread right now.

If getting something new installed cuts back on your ability to use what you already have, novelty limbs may not get as much of a market. Replacements, of course, but you may not see a lot of third arms being sold.

El_Mac already mentioned how old blind people adapt slowly to vision, but I think it's more a case of your already having something that would cut back on your ability to use what's newly installed.

I guess that what partly explains on the difficulties Major Kusanagi had when she was younger who had to control the use of her prostetic body.

Details, please? I've never heard of Kusanagi. Maybe we could compare notes.

 

[Truronian]

This means virtual reality can't be that far away either, all we need is some system to simulate touch and we would be able to walk around in a computer.

 

[Shaihulud]

I read that this form of man machine interface, is best done on the malleable minds of children. As you get older, your neuron pathways become more fixed and you lose the plasticity and flexibility. there are some examples of such technologies being used such as cochlear implants, which really depends alot on how your brain adapt to this new stimulus which is provided by the implant and wether you are able to interpret the information in a meaningful pattern.