i'm a newbie getting destroyed...help?

[breakdancing]

I am brand new to the Civ games. I purchased Civ4 to see what its like a few months ago. So far, I've enjoyed it. I played the first difficulty level (Settler) to figure out how to play. The AI basically did nothing the whole game.

So I immediately advanced to Chieftain. I didn't see much of a difference, except they expanded slightly more quickly. Still pathetically easy, though.

I moved on to Warlord. I again didn't see a huge difference, except they expanded more and tended to build a larger defense base. On a side note, the AI ACTUALLY did some research. But their technology rarely ever advanced past rifleman before I'd already won the game (cultural, diplomatic, and domination).

At this point, I'm still not exactly sure what I'm doing. I'm somewhat familiar with the technology tree, and I know my favorite Civ is the Dutch; the dike is awesome, and Van Oranje's abilities rock (plus that frilly-thingy around his neck is quite becoming ). But other than that, I still kind of feel like a toddler playing with his father's power tools (what's this button doooo?). Nevertheless, I advanced to Noble difficulty expecting to be able to handle it.

Was I wrong!!! The difference is unbelievable, and not in a good way. I'm barely in year 1200AD and I've been in 6 wars, which have all ended with me kissing AI butt for peace. It seems like war is getting declared on me every 20 turns.

In addition, I can't keep up with technology at all. I feel like the stupid kid down the street who wants to use your civ's Super NES that's been locked away in the attic for 15 years.

The AI's numbers are completely overwhelming: I'm getting attacked from the south by 25 french macemen/horse archers/crossbowmen/catapults against my 6 longbowmen defenders. Julius Caesar is at the eastern doorstep with 15 praetorians/crossbowmen/trebuchets, smashing through my cities in the historical and typical roman fashion. And to top it all off, Montezuma just declared war, too. Dead me?

I've done an ok job of expanding: most of my cities are bottlenecked into a landmass surrounded by ocean, which is the only reason I wasn't exterminated back in 100AD. But its only a matter of time before the AI sends waves of naval destruction my way, if the past proves to be prophetic.

What I can't understand is how quickly the AI has expanded AND developed such a huge army without stifling their economy. I know they get bonuses on the higher difficulty levels, but I was lead to believe that the playing fields were even on Noble setting.

I'm pretty sure I expanded too quickly to sustain a good economy, and that might be part of my mistake. But Dugaulle and Catherine have both been larger in landmass and population the whole game. AND Dugaulle is knocking at the doorstep with his french army of hate. How does that add up?

So...whats with the huge discrepancy in the difficulty level? I feel like Warlord was so easy that I could have won with my eyes closed the day I bought the game. You don't have to understand, or even try to win, and you've won. Now Noble has served me a happy-meal caesar salad and soup du jour combo, with a complimentary aztec action-figure inside. Except this meal is anything but happy.

And I barely know how to play.

What's going on?

And how do I not die?



PS I've pretty much accepted that in this game the Dutch are doomed to lose. Any advice would be post-apocalyptic. Thanks in advance!

 

[KaytieKat]

Hi

Check out the war academy for different startegy articles. In particular I would look at Sistuli's guide for beginners. Also at the top of the strategy and tips forum is a thread called sample game directory. There you can find a ton of played games and read how they were played through. The all leader challenge, nobles club, monarch school, and lonely hearts club games are all pretty informative. Also keep an eye out for current Noble's Club games. You can join and play along and get advice as you play.

Kaytie

 

[Revent]

Welcome to CivFanatics!!

Firstly, you are right about Noble being a pretty even playing field, but the AI still get some notable differences.
Why don't you post a save here? That way, we can see how your game is going.
You should read some of the basic guides and try to understand the game mechanics, once you do that, you should be able to jump up to monarch hopefully. Follow advice here and these guys should get you to Emperor pretty quickly

As for beginners guides, I recommend these:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165632
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=185838


General rule of thumb is, always build a worker first in your cities and research the technologies to give you food! Ie, if you have corn or wheat, almost always research Agriculture first You should aim to have lots of workers improving your cities and you should be able to win a lot more.

 

[Doshin]

You might want to take a look at Sisiutil's strategy guide for beginners: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165632 . A lot of useful info there.

With regards to your specific game, it sounds like you need to work on your diplomacy. You can't please everyone, but you do need some allies. Do you share a religion with anyone? Have you been giving in to demands? This will help build up good relations.

Some AIs are more hostile than others; Montezuma is incredibly hostile and will attack early and often. Julius Caesar is also very hostile, as is Charles de Gaulle. You were unlucky to be drawn next to all three. A game is much easier when you live next to peaceful civs.

 

[The Oz-Man]

+50 points for extended use of weird metaphors ("happy meal caesar salad"?).

Best advice for all newbies is to post a game. The hive-mind really, really helps and got me over the Noble hump big-time. I'm being lapped by better players who started on Noble and are now playing on Emperor or Immortal, but I don't feel like I totally suck anymore.

 

[Shaandore]

Welcome to the forums! Don't get discouraged by the new difficulty, losing terribly usually happens when moving up a level.

It is hard to tell without a save what you should do in your game, most probably there are many strategies and tricks that could improve your play. I would suggest reading some of the excellent guides around here.

Sisiutil's strategy guide for beginners is a good place to start. Then read the other introductory courses in the War academy. (The war academy can be found on the top of the page under Civ4. For sisiutil's guide, try to read the one uploaded in the forum thread because the others might be out of date. )

Read some forum games, download BUG mod, and have fun! Also post a game and participate in forum games if you are stuck on a level.

Edit: OUCH. I got soooooo ninja'd

 

[damerell]

Honestly, I don't see Warlord and Noble as _that_ different, so this is a bit of a mystery.

 

[Tred]

I used to get attacked all the time until I finally paid attention to how to manage diplomacy.

Somewhere there is a guide to Triangle Diplomacy. Civs don't like it if you trade with their enemies. You have to decide which two will be your trading partners, and eventually trade only with them.

The other big lesson is to be generous: give them whatever they ask for, with few exceptions. You get a big boost from giving them stuff.

If you take care of diplomacy, you get to pick your own wars, instead of getting attacked right and left.

 

[lymond]

Welcome, OP! What you are experience is not uncommon at all for new players. We've all been there at one point.

As for Noble, it's not so much that it is significantly harder than Warlord, but the increased difficulty and lack of bonuses in the human's favor has started to expose the flaws in your game, as well as your lack of understanding of certain basic skills and strategies that will make you successful.

As mentioned above, there are some good guides out there like Sisiutil's that will quickly get you up to speed. Civ is a complex game so I assure you there is plenty there to learn. I win on IMM regularly and sometimes Deity, but still learn things all the time.

Noble is really quite an easy level once you start practicing just a few basic things. This forum can help you tremendously.

Read a couple of articles. Practice some of things you learn - you don't even have to play full games. Just try different tactics related to early expansion and economy building or early rushing.

Then post a new game up on here and allow the forum to give you advice as you play short turnsets. This is the best way to learn and will put Noble difficulty in the rear view in a short time. Also, try out the Nobles club here.

 

[spaced]

Yeah, as someone who just (i.e. in the last couple months) started playing this game and made the jump from Settler to Noble, I can sympathize. My first Noble game was a complete clusterf*** since I was used to essentially ignoring the AI. On lower levels, they don't attack you if you are weak, and diplomacy is essentially irrelevant, but that's not the case on Noble. After a couple games though, I had adjusted, and now Noble is seeming way too easy and I'm ready to move up; and that's only after a month or two of playing this game, so you will learn quickly if you put in the effort. There's so much good info on this site that if you just stick around and read the forum, you will pick up a lot simply by sheer inertia.

As others have said, if you want personalized feedback, post a save and screenshots. As for just improving on your own, the things I've found most helpful are (a) practice (self-explanatory), (b) reading strategy articles and the playthroughs that get posted constantly on this forum, and (c) learning the game mechanics.

That last one is the most crucial, IMO. Learning the basic mechanics won't make you a good player by itself, but you can't become very good without it. You should make sure that you understand how your economy functions (how those commerce tiles get converted into beakers/gold/whatever else), how cities grow and how much food it takes to work tiles, etc. You don't need to work every decision out mathematically, but if you know the basics, you'll be able to figure out a lot by yourself. For example, by understanding city growth mechanics, you can look at a potential city location and figure out how big a city there can grow, which tiles it can work, and therefore whether or not it's worth settling. Same thing in every other area. Is it worth it to build a library in that city? If you understand how commerce tiles get converted into beakers, you can figure out whether putting those hammers into building one will be a good investment.

Hope that helps. Basically, don't despair, you'll improve much faster than you might think.

 

[vicawoo]

You might have been lucky with worse AIs earlier and unlucky with tough ones later. But there's tons of fundamentals that will make you better regardless.

 

[breakdancing]

Wow!! That was quick! It feels like Christmas in fast-forward.

So, looks like I got some homework to do before I should tackle Noble again. I definitely wasn't giving in to many demands, except to stop the invasions and hordes. (Take my cities, pillage my people, just spare my miserable life!) Nor did I share a religion with anyone else, so I built Schwedagon Paya Wonder and adopted free religion. Another mistake...

I don't think I've ever seen so many responses to any forum so quickly. I'm quite impressed!

So, in posting a save game...do I just copy and paste the save into the reply window? Or do I have to zip it first? Forgive my ignorance in advance please.

With all your help, soon I will be undisputed emperor of the planet (Noble difficulty) ruling from the throne with my necky-frilly-thingy of death!!

But first...Civ4 kindergarten (the only kindergarten where you are taught to conquer and pillage). Today, the swing-set; tomorrow, the world!

 

[damerell]

Easy on the wall of smileys.

Free Religion's not so bad; no-one hates you for having the wrong religion. But joining the largest religious bloc might be better.

 

[Osbiath]

For posting a save, you must first know where your save files are at of course. When writing a new post, simply click the manage attachments button, choose the file and upload it. The save will automatically be at the bottom of your post.

Also, I wouldn't give up on noble. You said that warlord was too easy, so if I was you I'd stick to noble. If you go back to a difficulty that is too easy you won't learn as much and your mistakes won't be as easy to spot.

 

[Jaaboo]

Welcome to the forums!

The Nobles Club is a great place to pick up advice and expand your knowledge, as mentioned. Noble isn't all that hard, it's just that the training wheels have been taken off.

Some early advice that helped me make the leap;

* Fortify your cities with units, especially the border cities. AIs are opportunistic and a bunch of border cities stocked with a single warrior is going to look like, well, imagine what it would look like to you - free cities.

* Get an early city if not devoted, focused, on building early units. You're going to need units for city defense, and barbarian control, if nothing else. Bronze Working & Animal Husbandry should always be on your short list of techs to research early on so that you can find the copper & horse resources. Chariots, Axes and Spearmen are significant steps up from Warriors.

* Know your neighbors. The AI has personalities and knowing those can really help. They are loosely patterned of their real-world versions - loosely. Essentially, if you recognize the leader from being a warrior or a "bad guy" or great general from history, chances are good, they're going to be eager to war in Civ. You're also going to learn who is a "backstabber" (hint, it's Catherine the Great and Joao II of Portugal).

* Especially keep a wary eye on Montezuma, Shaka, Stalin or any Aggressive leader for that matter. Monty & Shaka are the most dangerous and violent leaders, however. If you are starting near them, immediately start thinking of military plans regarding those two. They don't have to be wiped off the map, though. Shaka especially can be a great friend, if you can keep him on his leash.

* As mentioned, understand how the "economy" works. In Civ 4, everything costs money. Units & cities will cost you money. The more units you build, the more cities you found, the larger those cities get, this all will cost money. The key to Civ is to manage these expenses while still being able to grow and research. There is a direct correlation between your income & research - the science slider. Read on how commerce works, no matter how you fuel your research, those gold coins on the ground are going to be key.

 

[breakdancing]

I have read through the guides that the wonderful people of this forum directed me to. They were very VERY informative. I didn't know...well, basically, everything. Now I feel all knowed and stuff.

I had some questions, though.

Is it better to join another civ's religion in order to "make friends" or to stick with one that you found? I never found the early religions (Buddhism and Hinduism), and usually go for Judaism or even Christianity, because the AI usually beats me to it (even on Warlord/Chieftain). But it seems like the early ones have the advantage of being more prevalent. So should I convert and try to capture the holy city? Or should I found my own and waste precious resources on spreading the religion to my rivals?

My other question is, how do you balance your economy--what does that phrase exactly mean? What is an acceptable balance between expansion/growth to advancement/technology to military? I read the guide, but I'm still confused on a general rule of where to draw the line.

In this game, I expanded way too quickly--and then I was at the bottom of the totem pole, because I can barely keep anything in my treasury. Which made me easy pickings. But of course, none of my cities were specialized, like Sisiutil suggested. They were just whatever the game said for "recommended economy".

So, summary:

Religion; to join or not to join? That is the question!

Economy: what does balance mean?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

And I barely know how to play.

What's going on?

At the highest level, two things are going on

1) You haven't yet worked out that this is a strategy game - ie, that you have to have plans, make choices, execute...

2) You simply don't have enough laps yet to know what all the pieces do; which makes strategy formulation hard.

 

[breakdancing]

I'm not planning on going back to Warlord. It is too easy, and you're right. I wouldn't learn anything.

 

[Osbiath]

I have read through the guides that the wonderful people of this forum directed me to. They were very VERY informative. I didn't know...well, basically, everything. Now I feel all knowed and stuff.

I had some questions, though.

Is it better to join another civ's religion in order to "make friends" or to stick with one that you found? I never found the early religions (Buddhism and Hinduism), and usually go for Judaism or even Christianity, because the AI usually beats me to it (even on Warlord/Chieftain). But it seems like the early ones have the advantage of being more prevalent. So should I convert and try to capture the holy city? Or should I found my own and waste precious resources on spreading the religion to my rivals?

My other question is, how do you balance your economy--what does that phrase exactly mean? What is an acceptable balance between expansion/growth to advancement/technology to military? I read the guide, but I'm still confused on a general rule of where to draw the line.

In this game, I expanded way too quickly--and then I was at the bottom of the totem pole, because I can barely keep anything in my treasury. Which made me easy pickings. But of course, none of my cities were specialized, like Sisiutil suggested. They were just whatever the game said for "recommended economy".

So, summary:

Religion; to join or not to join? That is the question!

Economy: what does balance mean?

I generally convert to a religion the AIs have already discovered. Its easier to see who follows what and converting to make your allies happier with you.

The balance economy thing would be a lot easier to show you rather than explain. Start a game and we'll help you through it

Lastly you said that you do what the computer suggests you do for economy, I am assuming you are talking about when it asks what you want to build next and it gives two recomendations. My advice to you is DO NOT listen to those suggestions. Make your own decisions because those suggestions are mostly picked at random.

 

[spaced]

Yeah, don't pay any attention to what the computer tells you to do; for every decent piece of advice it gives you, it will give you another that's completely idiotic. As someone recently said in a different thread, if you want to play better than the computer players, you can't rely on the computer to tell you what to do!

As for religion, there's no shame in giving in to peer pressure and taking a nearby religion for the diplo bonuses. I generally don't see the utility in actively trying to found your own religion unless you have a specific reason for doing so. If I found one, it's usually by accident because I needed the tech for other reasons, e.g. I'm the first to get CoL (courthouses, caste system, and pre-req for Civil Service) or Philosophy (pre-req for Liberalism), or I'm trying for one of the early wonders. Shrines are nice, but I find that usually the earlier religious techs aren't generally worth prioritizing over other stuff, especially if you don't start with Mysticism. Then again, I'm still somewhat of a n00b myself, so I could be overlooking something, but that's been my experience.

As for general advice regarding your economy, people often say that a good rule of thumb is not to drop your slider below 60% unless you have a good reason. That's not a bad maxim to follow as you're learning, but keep in mind that the amount of you are generating per turn and how fast the AI is teching are the ultimate measuring stick. The science % by itself, while it might give you a general indicator of where you're at, is still just an indicator. To take an extreme example, if you have 20 cities loaded up with villages and towns, running your slider at 30% science is going to get you more beakers per turn than if you have 6 crappy cities running at 60%. Likewise, if you have a tech lead compared to your rivals, you an afford to slow your research down in favor of other priorities, like expanding or quickly generating a big chunk of . Really though, general advice on this stuff is less helpful than a personalized critique, so posting some saves/screenshots will get you more help.