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I'm back and need a little help

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Admiral Kutzov, Nov 30, 2013.

  1. Admiral Kutzov

    Admiral Kutzov Idiot Emeritus

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    My apologies for starting a new thread, but I've returned to Civ5 after a few years off. had some gift cards around and went whole hog, buying vanilla, G&K and BNW all at once. My experience is with C3 and C4. I've had five about two weeks.

    I would like to post a save from some of my games and have people suggest what I should do. Just looking for advice.

    My skill level is abysmal. I usually play small, warlord, continents, varied leaders. I've won on tech and domination, but it ain't pretty.

    My usual strategy is to go for tradition and then sit tight until gunpowder and then go out and puppet everyone else. My feeling is I'm not using money and faith efficiently and that I'm lackadaisical about my culture management.

    I usually only ever get four "active" cites (free monuments and aqueducts). Socially I tend to go Tradition, open up the Pyramids, open honor for the barb attack bonus. My capital builds WW and NW.

    I could go on and on, but in essence, I'm looking for mentor(s). Anyone interested?

    and if anyone is still around from the olden days, "Hi" where are the tank and bazooka emoticons?

    admins, if this is in the wrong place, please move it. thanks
     
  2. EK834

    EK834 Prince

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    What you might benefit from the most is to go watch a few "Let's Play" for BNW on You Tube. It's like having a tutor for a whole game standing next to you. Mad Djinn's are excellent, and he's made some for many civs and types of victory conditions . Most of those LPs on You Tube are for Deity level but they will still give you a very good step by step course on how to approach BNW and this should even allow you to go from Warlord up to Prince/King immediately as your "training level".
     
  3. Admiral Kutzov

    Admiral Kutzov Idiot Emeritus

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    thanks EK. I'm behind the times on tech. Think teaching your grandpa to play C5
     
  4. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    I suggest reading up on some guides on the Forums there are some Liberty Domination guides that are very useful and Tanabark has a 3-4 City Tradition guide that's pretty helpful.
     
  5. Stellarnight

    Stellarnight Warlord

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    Personally i feel the best way to improve is to play one difficulty level up from your comfort level. The added threat and danger from the AI would usually force a person to play more efficiently after he/she makes a few mistake that can sometimes end in defeat.

    Yes do post a save. I am an Emperor level player and there are people with far better advice then me but let me post some basic principles.

    1) Religion: It is either all or nothing. You either commit to it or ignore it.
    2) Building and wonder hogging. DO NOT BUILD EVERYTHING! It is tempting but this is easily one of the greatest mistakes as it distracts you from your intended goal and most importantly, buildings = gold maintenance and opportunity cost. Going for Science Victory? concentrate on growth and science buildings. Rush buy Universities if need be.
    3) National College. Get it up asap.
    4) Want to dominate? Look at the enemy capital and see what lux they have. Raze their satellite cities unless it is strategic or have a unique lux. Take only capitals. Coastal Capitals? Grab frigates and destroy them. Land-locked capitals? Beeline to Artillery and blast away. Early Wars are possible. Grab a couple of Composite Bows and a horsemen and take the city.

    Tradition is a good policy. Though i find that opening liberty for the sake of pyramids to be not that effective. Honor should only be opened IF there are a lot of barbarians or you plan to go for domination in which you should at least fill the left side of the tree for the 50% extra XP.
     
  6. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    My tips that haven't been mentioned:
    • Don't denounce unless you're ready for war.
    • When warmongering look at the tool-tip when you hover over the target city, and heed the text.
    • Explore early, and that includes the sea, you want to get the first proposal in as the AI usually just wants to ban luxuries.
    • Internal trade routes(food or production) are 'free'(ie the food/hammers are created out of thin air).
    • Trade routes early on don't give that much gold so it's better to use then internally.
    • Never give open borders to a civ that's generating tourism, but when you are buy open borders with every civ if you can.
    • Positive relations are better than negative ones, I find it best to keep out of other civs 'disagreements' until I'm ready to go to war with a particular civ.
     
  7. Admiral Kutzov

    Admiral Kutzov Idiot Emeritus

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    Thanks for the advice. I upped the difficulty to Prince. I'm playing continents on a small world with raging barbs and scarce resource. I've ignored religion and have my capital, one annexed city and 3 puppets. I'm running slightly negative in gold and positive on happy gas. I feel that I'm plodding along on the tech side, just now getting NC up and running in a few turns.

    Anyway, here is the save if anyone wants to take a look and make suggestions. Thanks.
     
  8. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

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    I did a quick video a while back from another person who was deeper into their game, but had made many of the same mistakes in yours
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Nc5KKxdMZ8&list=PLcD3FdQc1MC4XczHzXuiMp6oYFVJnNvl4
    It is only 2ish hours and will cover a lot of the problems you are facing, including city management and policy trees.

    Stuff that is particular to your save.
    Never go iron working early. it takes far too long to research and swordmen suck in a serious way. a better tech path for early domination is pottery, archery, lux techs, writing, bee line to construction, bee line to phylo. build some archers while teching to phylo, get the NC up right away, then head to civil service and then machinery. Pikemen are better than swords, and you will use composite bowmen and then x-bows for your domination.

    You have parts of your continent not even scouted yet, make building a scout the 1st thing you do. Opening build order of scout, scout, shrine/granary, worker, library will get you by in almost any game. Good scouting is extremely important.

    Feel free to post more saves. Try to post the initial autosave as well. If you post both the initial autosave, and your current save, people will play from your start and give you good benchmarks for where you should be at any given point.

    You should also check out the Game of the Month forum for comparing different strats from the same starting place
     
  9. Admiral Kutzov

    Admiral Kutzov Idiot Emeritus

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    Joshua, thanks for the video. I've only watched the part about specialist management, but it gives me a good idea as to what to do - get back into my Civ3 mentality. I was being too lazy and leting the AI do too much. First thing I did was take manual control of the specialists. It helped immensely.

    Then I had to convert numerous TP to farms. Then remanage the specialists.

    I then had to disband much of my army. Maintenance was eating all my gold.

    I also had way too many workers In most of the previous games, the rule of thumb was 1 worker per city. Here, I'm guessing about .5 or .333; or even less?

    In retrospect, I've messed up my trade network for the caravans. my caravans were set up to go out to foreign cities, not feed the capital.

    And finally, my choices about which cities to annex were atrocious.

    Does anyone have any advice about how to switch between civ and the desktop in windows 8? I push the windows button and it doesn't work. Means I have to exit the game to get to Google. Driving me crazy.

    Thanks to all for the help and suggestions. I think I've attached the correct initial save.
     
  10. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

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    Glad the Video helped. I have been meaning to do some more of them, but I wanted to do domination and I am still frustrated enough with the Fall Patch that my bitterness comes out :(

    I just alt-tab on my Win8 machine - not sure how you would do it on a touch only device though. My guess is that have to go into game options and play in windowed mod.

    Since you did settle your own cities, annexing all of them would make the most sense.

    The general rule for workers is 1 per city + 1. so two work the cap and 1 work the rest. In practice though, it is best to keep collecting them until you have everything improved then delete all but 2 to fix the random pillaged tile. For domination, you want to travel with an army of workers, just pillage the enemies entire empire then fix it all really fast.

    Automated workers are terrible, but I automate mine in domination once I have my founded cities all improved - I just do not want to be bothered with them.

    1 to 3 food caravans to the cap, and the rest to foreign cities is common, as is sending one to the cap and one to new cities to get them up to size rapidly. I usually use 2 for food and the rest for gold.
     
  11. Admiral Kutzov

    Admiral Kutzov Idiot Emeritus

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    well, I've played a bit and I'm more confused that ever. I thought playing on small worlds would make things easier. It didn't. :confused:

    So I watched more videos. I've got the city management down when I am not lazy. The tech path not so much. Most of what I've seen, says to go for the top of the tech tree. Then I see build for what makes sense. :confused:

    Then we get to the social policies. I hear liberty, liberty, then someone else says tradition rocks. :confused:

    I then start reading about wonders and how the GL is bad.

    And I have to fight REX reflux. And no early worker. :confused:

    So anyway, I jumped to King from Warlord and I think I've got my best game to date so far. I'm looking for some advice. I've just founded my second city, got GL, and NC. I'm in position to control the city of gold natural wonder.

    I'm just wondering what have I done wrong and what should I do now? my settings are standard, continents i think, regular barbs. I cheated and reduced the AI opponents by 1 IIRC.

    thanks in advance and I appreciate the help.
     
  12. BigChiefLizzy

    BigChiefLizzy Warlord

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    Looks like you make the same mistake I do all too often; chasing after Wonders :)

    You have the NC up before turn 100 which is good, and you got the GL - but what tech did you get with it? If it was Theology then OK but now you have committed yourself to religion very early in the game & and as Sweden has also founded a religion you either have to commit further, sending missionaries to China or let the Swedish control with their religion. Meaning founding your own religion (and building Stonehenge) will give you little benefit. Fertility Rites is OK, but given that city location I'd have picked Religious Idols (faith from gold and silver?)

    Science seems to be key in BNW, more population = more science, but you have your Capital set on production (to build wonders? - this location with marble I would have gone for Temple of Artemis then Hanging gardens ASAP). Try and grow your cities as much as happiness allows as fast as possible. Tradition helps with this (why I think a lot of people on the forum recommend it), Liberty is good but you will run into happiness problems if you try and expand, i.e. build too many cities early in BNW.

    Other points - I never settle a new city unless it has access to a new Luxury resource, or vital strategic resource (oil, coal). Hamburg has none of these (food will be good from the fish, but that will take many,many turns). I would of either planted it further north towards china for 3 wine - and risk an attack. Or to the west on coast on bananas (not ideal but get sugar).

    You have nearly finished Oracle, so you get a free Social policy, but whats to take? Piety maybe but unless you get it complete very quick I find it worthless. You can complete Tradition, but you can do that in 15 turns anyway.

    Just a suggestion, but I would play on a normal size map standard everything, don't allow yourself *any* wonders. Capture them if needed :)

    Just realised - El Dorado, if you find it first and get the gold; great, but I would not rush to work it or even plant a new city near it. It gives 5 culture fine, but nothing else - including food, so a new city working it will stagnate. And so have poor production & science (see above).

    Natural wonders to have in City radius are, Fountain of youth, and anything that gives +2 food + something else. (So your city can keep growing while working the wonder tile). Lake victoria, Mt Fuji, Mt Kilomanjaro? Some are very bad (Baringer Crater?).
     
  13. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

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    You are looking much improved.

    aside from Hamburg's placement, no glaring mistakes - El Dorado is not worth settling unless the location is worth settling any way. +5 culture is not worth it for a city with nothing else to offer.

    Berlin is well placed, but is too small. Putting the city on production focus is the right thing to do, but you have to go in and assign each citizen manually every time it grows. To play on high difficulty, you pretty much have to be on top of it all the time. If it feels like too much hassle to do, put the city on food focus, then go in occasionally and assign citizens to hammer tiles. You lose the added hammers on growth, but you still get a nice big city from it.

    A typical GL opening would be, Pottery, writing, mining, calendar, archery/AH, wheel, math, currency, CS, Education. and you bulb phylo with the GL. In general, you want CS as early as possible - this tech is as important as getting an early NC since it adds 1 food to all riverside farms.
    build order would be something like scout, scout/shrine/granary (depending on dirt), worker (if not stolen, but worth building even if stolen), GL, etc

    How long you can delay the GL depends on difficulty, and its long build time means you do not get needed infrastructure. On King and below, it is always worth getting because the AI develops very slowly and you can catch up easily. On Immortal and above it will put you too far behind unless you can chop it out in 15ish turns. On Emperor it is awkward. This is why most players recommend learning strategies that do not require the GL to move up to high difficulty.

    China is a nice worker farm. Put your scout on the tile south west of the forest tile that is between the 2 cows, east of the iron. Move you warrior up to the hill north of the barb hut. Now just wait for her worker to come out, snag it and send it home, you warrior will be in position to help escort it so your scout can heal up. Just keep at it until she makes it impossible to steal more, this will slow her down so you can expand as you like and give you a steady stream of free workers.

    Oracle is good, the policy is free and does not count against future policies, it should be build in all games when possible (goes on T85 on high difficulty), the tradition finisher is typically where the policy goes, and lets you open commerce/aesthetics/patronage sooner (I prefer commerce). On lower difficulty it can be saved for rationalism depending on difficulty.

    I like that you took fertility rights. Pantheons that require you work a mining resource suck in my opinion. They force you to work a pure hammer tile when you should be working a food tile - the pantheon for salt is the only exception to this. +1 food pantheons are also very good if you have 3 or more of the resource. Tithe is better than +2gold/city, Swords into Plowshare is much better than feed the world.

    researching masonry to get the marble is fine, but there is no reason to research BW unless you have jungle to clear - don't get sucked into making iron based units, swords suck, pikes are much better.

    As for some folks saying go tradition, others saying mix them, others saying something else altogether...
    Pay attention to their play style. The goal after all is to have fun. There are plenty of good players on this forum that chose to play at medium difficulties because that is where they have the most fun - their strats will often be questionable on high difficulty, but who cares? If fun for you is winning in the fewest turns on the highest difficulties, then pay attention to the folks who also do this.
     
  14. Admiral Kutzov

    Admiral Kutzov Idiot Emeritus

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    I just finished radio. Around 1610 IIRC. Is that decent or slow?

    I am friendly with everyone and have yet to fight a battle with anyone other than barbs.

    Got 5 cities, so I guess I'm going/went tall.

    I'll post a save tomorrow maybe. My timing on popping free tech/scientist is execrable.

    I've been concentrating the specialist on science. Then I had the thought "what if I run food all the time and use all the specialists I can?" Is there a thread for running a specialist economy?

    And the big question of the day, how do I see the relationship between the AI's before I respond to proposal for a declaration of friendship.

    Thanks again for all your help and patience. :);)
     
  15. Admiral Kutzov

    Admiral Kutzov Idiot Emeritus

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    so I played out the german save and got into trouble in the early 1900's. out of control unhappiness, revolting cities :blush: that was before I read the above comments.

    Anyway so I decided to test out the specialist economy. so I went back to the last save I posted and decided to run food. yes it has slowed me down. I also got a little more aggressive and took over La Venta.

    King has been so much more fun than the lower levels.

    Anyway thoughts?
     
  16. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    Prioritize growth except when building the national college or another critical wonder. There are only a few of them, Sistine, Leaning tower, Oracle, Porcelain Tower if your friends aren't broke-ass deadbeats. If you start near Shaka, that changes things, but other than that, just grow as fast a possible.
     

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