I'm doing alright playing for Conquest on Noble, but...

[Dark Myrmidon]

I was hoping I could get some advice here. My games essentially run like this:

I play Persia, so I use my Immortals to dominate early game. Ancient-Classical-Medieval Era I tear my continent apart and make it mine. However, after my initial wars my economy slumps, and so I focus on grabbing the money techs - Code of Laws, Currency, Banking, etc. to revive my cash, and thats how I spend my Renaissance Era.

At this point, I've taken over my Continent (I play Small Fractal maps on Noble, for the record, I'm not fast enough to conquer the Standard number of Civs yet) At this point, my economy is booming, so I start speeding up the tech tree as build up a fleet of Galleons and Frigates to send over to the last enemy. My Cannons, Riflemen and Grenadiers with Machine Gun support decimate the enemy, and leave me the ultimate victor.

Sometimes.

That's the best case scenario - usually when I have the tech lead over my last enemy. If I don't have it, if the enemy is equal or worse ahead of me, I can't win. Also, if I end up in the Modern Era for war, it becomes such a nightmare to command all the many factors that are suddenly available - Even when I should win, I don't.

My other problem is while on the defensive: A land war is easy for me because I can predict where the enemy will come from and use my attacking force to eliminate theirs before they threaten my land. A cross-continent war however, is much more difficult. It seems no matter what I do, the enemy manages to land a force near one of my key cities and overpower the standard two units guarding it.

I'm fairly sure that more units hiding in the cities isn't the solution, I much prefer active defense. Once I have railroads and time to prepare, an invasion isn't a problem as with my superb economy I can produce and maintain a whole load of units and move them as I will. However, before that happens my entire production is geared towards equipping men and launching ships - so if I'm attacked then, which is usually before the railroads, I get decimated. The easiest thing to do would be to take out their transport ships before they arrive... but I'm just bad at the whole navy thing - Anybody got advice on naval defence?

Whoa... Loads of writing here, I'll summarize:

- I am ineffective at Modern Warfare
- Toward the end of the game, if I don't have the tech advantage I'm unable to win
- Sneaky troop landings wreck my game

Thanks in advance for any help guys.

 

[cabert]

it sounds like you're having a hard time with numbers .

can't remember the exact quote of A4phantom, but it's something along those lines :
There are 2 ways to kill stuff :
1) have better stuff
2) have more stuff.

IMHO you need to work on city specialization :
- do you build the Heroic epic early enough?
- do you keep building units in your HE city?
- same for commerce cities : when do you get oxford university built?
- How many beakers do you get from your typical oxford city?
- do you settle early commerce cities? do you improve them soon enough (= do you build enough workers early on?)

Ever tried the Globe Theater abusing trick?

Ever used nationhood to draft an army out of thin air?

- do you raze useless early cities?

About naval defense, I already answered only a few days ago to this topic, I'll try to find the thread.
short version :
- build enough ships (including attack ships, not only galleons!)
- try to see them coming (using caravels to check the rally point can be done early! submarines + spies are of course better, but come later)

 

[Dark Myrmidon]

I don't think specialization is the problem - My first priority is getting a productions city running, though I don't normally get more than one or two cities other than my capital settled by me personally, I take the rest myself... And I rarely get a commerce city by my own settling. That will move up as a priority now...

Nationhood and Globe Theater sound like a good plan though, I'll incorporate that.

Yeah I raze useless cities.

Sounds like a decent idea... any specific advice on how to use Caravels as scouts? like positioning,

Thanks though

 

[cabert]

Sounds like a decent idea... any specific advice on how to use Caravels as scouts?

caravels can enter any territory even without open borders, so you can scout the coastal cities looking for a stack of ships.
When you see more than 1 transport-like ship in a city, keep an eye on it. This civ is building an invasion force.

 

[uncarved block]

You might want to spend some time streamlining the end of the tech tree when it comes to building Spaceship parts. Even if I'm a tech behind, the AI usually detours several times along the way, and has a lot of trouble building the last three or four parts-- the Engine in particular is an Achille's heel, because it doesn't always go in their highest production city. (I play Noble, Standard and Epic, for the record.) If you have over 35% of the world population, you don't have to care if the UN gets built, and if you have a high enough power rating, you can skip Flight, especially if all the opponents are on another continent. In my experience, the AI really doesn't know how to use Bombers, so one SAM Infantry per stack should be enough cover.

Along the lines of Caravels as spies, there's, well, Spies. I have a compulsion to see what the AI is doing in all eras, and I'd have a Spy in every enemy state that I could. Most AIs hoard troops in the capitol, and when that stack starts to move, you know it's war. To disagree slightly with cabert, a huge pile of transports doesn't always mean much; I've seen them stay in port even while the AI is at war, with me or someone else. (Spies are neat!)

As far as the modern war part goes: I always like to keep what I think of as a "reaction force" in the middle of my home land. Not a huge force, but some fast moving troops (Cavalry or Tanks) backed up by a couple Siege weapons for collateral damage. You can whittle down a stack of ten Cavalry (the AIs favorite offensive unit) pretty fast-- you just have to be willing to accept a little pillaging along the way. And really, what's a couple Worker turns at that stage of the game?

 

[cabert]

You might want to spend some time streamlining the end of the tech tree when it comes to building Spaceship parts. Even if I'm a tech behind, the AI usually detours several times along the way, and has a lot of trouble building the last three or four parts-- the Engine in particular is an Achille's heel, because it doesn't always go in their highest production city. (I play Noble, Standard and Epic, for the record.) If you have over 35% of the world population, you don't have to care if the UN gets built, and if you have a high enough power rating, you can skip Flight, especially if all the opponents are on another continent. In my experience, the AI really doesn't know how to use Bombers, so one SAM Infantry per stack should be enough cover.

Along the lines of Caravels as spies, there's, well, Spies. I have a compulsion to see what the AI is doing in all eras, and I'd have a Spy in every enemy state that I could. Most AIs hoard troops in the capitol, and when that stack starts to move, you know it's war. To disagree slightly with cabert, a huge pile of transports doesn't always mean much; I've seen them stay in port even while the AI is at war, with me or someone else. (Spies are neat!)

true enough
What I meant is you don't have to check every city every turn. Find the city where a naval force is building up and keep checking this city.
I didn't mean to say you'd be invaded soon if 2 or more transports are in the same port.

 

[Irish82]

I am currently in a Monarch game where my tanks-bombers-marines are going against Persia's Cavalry-Infantry-Machine Guns. It is truly incredible how many troops he had lying around. He must have attacked me with at least 30 cannons when I landed. But slowly I am killing him off.

For a modern war, I would really recommend checking out the tank warfare guide in the War Academy. I had a really big problem fighting with modern equipment until I read that. It shows how to use different promotions to create a tank group that is the perfect city destroyer. If you read that guide it makes it really clear how to wipe out a civilization in the most efficient way possible even if the other civ has tanks. I currently have 2 tank armies rolling around each with its own Warlord healer, and each is basically taking a city every 2 turns with the help of the bombers.

This is my second modern war in a row, and I have found the following things most important:

1. When you first land, you will be assaulted by everything the AI has, and usually their automated turn lasts over 5 minutes, meaning that you have to have a lot of infantry to take the brunt of the attack. Don't think you can post up near a modern city with just 8 tanks, as they will be sieged and cavalry'ed to death.
2. Make sure that your West Point city is churning out level 4 troops, and use this city to create your CR1 CR2 Barrage tanks that will be the key attackers.
3. Scout out 2 cities in the AI's territory where bombers could base and bombard most of the remaining cities. Obviously the cities need to be close to the coast or your landing group will get bogged down trying to move inland, but you can usually find a good location or two. On the second turn after you've taken the cities(or the first if you are using marines) drop all your bombers in these cities and start going to town. The beauty of this is that you won't need to drag around your artillery when your tanks move from town to town. And when that initial force meets you outside their captured city your bombers can weaken their troops significantly.
4. Think about WW before the war. I usually build Jails and Theatre's as my transports are sailing off to the other continent. WW for modern wars is BRUTAL, so you have to prepare.
5. Use airports to supply your 2 base cities with a fresh troop every turn.
6. And if you are using tanks this is very important...sabotage their sources of oil. If you are using tank groups and the AI counters with Gunships (which they will have a ton of because the AI LOVES mounted units and likely have 50 cavalry to upgrade) you are done for.

But I hear ya, Modern Wars IMHO are MUCH harder than an axerush or even a cavalry-trebuchet war. The AI has SO many troops, and so many siege weapons, that you simply have to take the brunt of their attack at first, counter with bombers, and when the first wave is over move out the tanks and start razing!!! I used to think modern wars were too much trouble and I'd always go for the Space Victory, but after having played a few and using the tank groups it actually has proven to be really fun.

 

[Dark Myrmidon]

Hmmm... Makes sense, thanks for the advice guys. The idea of planting Caravels near enemy cities to act as spies is brilliant, and I'm sad I didn't think about it... And the modern war advice was awesome too.

I did the reaction force thing, but the problem is I was too lazy to build one up before railroads Oh well, silly me, thanks you guys.

 

[vibrotank]

I don't think modern wars are hard, in fact they're my favourite! Bombers + commando tanks = 1 city every turn even if i only have one assault force.

I usually play as napoleon because he's charismatic (therefore only need 20xp to get the commando upgrade) and organised which helps me keep up/keep ahead on the military technologies. I aim to produce commando tanks in every game (vassalage +2/barracks +3/westpoint+4/6greatgenerals+12 = tanks produced with 21xp) - 21starting xp gets you the +10%strength four times and then the commando upgrade. Combined with air strikes on target cities beforehand reducing the defenders to half strength, modern wars are fun and easy compared to earlier wars. Air strikes + commando tanks = reach out and kill someone.

Granted, i only play on noble difficulty (it's the 'fairest' i've heard) and yes, you do need to prepare for wars, but then again, i play civ 4: warlords because i -want- to fight wars in my computer games...as you may guess, my whole game is centered around getting those 6 great generals i need (5 is ok though: 1st combat gives the commando upgrade). I tend to save my GG's until i know which city of mine will have the highest production near the end of the game, then i put them as instructors in that city. Forget academies, screw warlords - free xp is the gift that keeps on giving!

Mind you, i've only been playing this game for about 8 months now, maybe i'm missing something?
Ah well, i have fun with it.

jmsr

 

[cabert]

as you may guess, my whole game is centered around getting those 6 great generals i need (5 is ok though: 1st combat gives the commando upgrade). I tend to save my GG's until i know which city of mine will have the highest production near the end of the game, then i put them as instructors in that city. Forget academies, screw warlords - free xp is the gift that keeps on giving!

Mind you, i've only been playing this game for about 8 months now, maybe i'm missing something?

I like settling the GGs too, and I like starting at level 5 or 6, but this is in no way necessary. Sometimes, you don't have a super high production site, so you need to make mini HEs all around the place (numbers > promotions). Sometimes, the free upgrade you get for a warlord + the ability of good promotions is .
Example :
4 macemen, 5XPs each.
With one warlords, you can bring them all 4 to 10 xps = level 4 = CR3.
One of them will have the free upgrade to grenadier as soon as you get chemistry (you could have it already, in fact).
For some players, having a few CR3 grenadiers is a lot more important than having a continuous stream of combat 3 grenadiers.
just playing devil's advocate, since I mostly settle the GGs, but I like trying something different from time to time.

 

[JimT]

You may have my problem of leaving the strong enemies until last. In a recent game I left Asoka alone as he had a tech lead and was a useful ally in all my wars. Instead I destroyed a Tokuwaga/Alexander alliance on the other continent and just fell short of the domination victory.

My modern warfare is horrendous as I have usually won the game before I get there.

One thing that did work was capturing a city on a peninsular (with marines) of the other continent, I didn't want it but putting one marine with CD3 and three with drill promos managed to take out a lot of siege weapons, hold out for eight turns and divert the AI attention.

I saw a similar trick of sending a couple of tanks and helicopters in to enemy territory and letting them soak up the artillery. Either way it makes life easier for your next landing.

Also sounds like your navy is too weak for continents, get a city (with ironworks) to build up your navy in the late game. One GG means they come out of the dock with 10xp. Acombination of strong, collateral and fast moving destroyers prevent landings.

 

[JimT]

I re read your question so I thought I should expand my answer regarding your navy.

In the early-mid game sea invasion is rare and easily dealt with and rare so I will ignore it.

The problems will only start when galleons start sending over a mass of troops which can take cities (cannons and cavalry at first). The only help here is spying as ironclads are slow and probably won't kill enough frigates to start on the galleons.

Once destroyers come then an active defence is much more effective. Strength promos for your first few (to counter your opponents strength promos) along with a scout (movement and extra sight). Once you have a few collateral becomes more useful as your opponent will be building enough units to make stacks.

Once battleships are on the scene they are generally best given collateral bonuses to weaken stacks or movement bonuses (to keep up with your destroyers).

The worst thing about having a strong navy is that they obsolete themselves. In the early game you are hard pressed to defend your seafood (parked ironclads are best) while in the late game you find that you quickly sink an opposing navy and then have nothing better to do then bombard cities your land troops won't get to for a while.

 

[cabert]

I re read your question so I thought I should expand my answer regarding your navy.

In the early-mid game sea invasion is rare and easily dealt with and rare so I will ignore it.

The problems will only start when galleons start sending over a mass of troops which can take cities (cannons and cavalry at first). The only help here is spying as ironclads are slow and probably won't kill enough frigates to start on the galleons.

Once destroyers come then an active defence is much more effective. Strength promos for your first few (to counter your opponents strength promos) along with a scout (movement and extra sight). Once you have a few collateral becomes more useful as your opponent will be building enough units to make stacks.

Once battleships are on the scene they are generally best given collateral bonuses to weaken stacks or movement bonuses (to keep up with your destroyers).

The worst thing about having a strong navy is that they obsolete themselves. In the early game you are hard pressed to defend your seafood (parked ironclads are best) while in the late game you find that you quickly sink an opposing navy and then have nothing better to do then bombard cities your land troops won't get to for a while.

that's only true if you did it well
same as for workers, if you play it well you'll have a lot of those.