i'm new

[paramatt]

Uhhh
I have no idea if this community is still alive, considering how old Civ3 is..

BUT

if there are some of you, i have a few questions

I played civilization 3 (the normal version, no mods) for a while, i SUCK, literally, i can't play above cheiftain (LOL) because my money keeps going below 0 and my units keep disbanding/buildings keep disbanding, i'm not THAT experienced, but how could i keep my income up? one technique .. well.. not sure if it's a technique, but I'd expand really quickly, which I noticed gives you more gold per turn, but eventually that would become useless and would eventually keep bringing me back down to 0 gold..

also, I installed civ3 complete edition, I edited some files with the editor, such as the civilizations, I edited so that the romans got 5 tech advances and renamed the Zulu, Africans, the Aztecs, Mexicans, ect.. and now when I get to the part of the game where you can build knights, the game crashes, and I get a error message saying "cannot locate Art/Terrain/Knight" or anything it can't "locate", so i uninstalled everything, i'm installing Civ3 Complete Edition again ALONE, without civilization 3, it's a really long story on why i'm doing it alone and why i empphasised "alone" (im a bad speller .. sorry =/)

 

[Ataxerxes]

Uhhh
I have no idea if this community is still alive, considering how old Civ3 is..

BUT

if there are some of you, i have a few questions

I played civilization 3 (the normal version, no mods) for a while, i SUCK, literally, i can't play above cheiftain (LOL) because my money keeps going below 0 and my units keep disbanding/buildings keep disbanding, i'm not THAT experienced, but how could i keep my income up? one technique .. well.. not sure if it's a technique, but I'd expand really quickly, which I noticed gives you more gold per turn, but eventually that would become useless and would eventually keep bringing me back down to 0 gold..

Welcome to the forums! The community is very much alive. Some play CivIII and IV, and some like III a lot more.

Above Chieftain, you can't run the science slider at 100% most of the time. You have to decrease the science slider so you don't go broke and have units disband. Expanding quickly is the best way to play CivIII in most cases. Whenever you get the warning, go to the domestic adviser and turn down the slider. At Warlord it'd be almost impossible to go to 0% and lose money.

A few minor money tips - I'm not the best player. First, get out of despotism! I recommend Republic - I go for Republic first and stay in it all game. Most important - Road every tile you work! Your workers shouldn't leave a tile if it isn't roaded - roads give +1 gold. Make sure you have enough workers - a guideline is 1.5 workers/city (maybe a little less for industrious leaders). Whenever you have 1 turn left to finish research, go into the domestic adviser. See if you can still finish the tech in one turn with the slider lower for that one turn. Sometimes you can research, say, Philosphy for 10% on the last turn instead of 80%, which can give you some gold for deficit research later.

I normally research my first tech at 10 or 20%. Since there's a minimum number of turns to research a tech (maybe 40) you build up a lot of gold to run the slider at 100% for longer later. Explore quickly to find other Civs to trade with - I usually don't research any left-hand ancient tech on my own. I do this when going for the "Republic Slingshot".

 

[The Omega]

Expand quickly, get out of despotism fast, and build a road on every tile under your control. That's the basics for getting money.

To prevent losing too much money, don't build more improvements than you can afford. Some buildings cost maintenance per turn, so you have to think about whether the benefits of building something outweigh the cost. For example, you really don't need to ever build a courthouse in your capital city, so you can save money by not doing so.
Trading is also very useful. On the lower difficulties, you can sell techs to the AI for money, and on the higher difficulties, you can set the amount of research you're doing to 0% and buy techs from the AI.

Keep an eye on your science and luxury sliders. If you're losing too much money, you may need to lower them.

 

[Raliuven]

Just a quick note - it might be easier for us to figure out where you are going wrong if you play a game for 20-30 turns and then post the game or screenshots for us to look at. Then we can make suggestions and you can play another 20-30 turns and post another game or screenshots. Screenshots can tell a lot about how you are developing. Read Crackers Opening Moves a few times re: worker moves.

One other thing -there is no such thing as too many cities in CivIII. Even corrupt cities are good for an 10 turn worker, 30 turn settler or an artillary unit, plus there is the extra unit support (non-representative goverments) and the extra gold and science beakers.

 

[Quintillus]

All good points so far - another important factor is, once you get to the late Ancient Times or early Medieval Times, built Courthouses in cities with moderate corruption (bad enough that the lowered corruption will make a difference, but not so bad that it's hopeless, as is the case when all coins/shields except one are corrupt), and build Markets in cities that are producing several gold for your treasury already (at an absolute minimum, though, two coins being produced). Markets will also help with happiness.

Another thing that will help is favoring more expensive military units. Two swordsmen cost a lot less upkeep than six warriors. Note that this only becomes an issue if you are exceeding your free unit support (hit F3 to bring up your Military Advisor and see if this is the case).

Back when I first started playing Civ3, seven years ago, my initial philosophy was that I wanted the best possible science, and thus always kept my science slider at 100%. While I got some money from Wealth, and some from exporting resources, and had Monarchy as government most of the time for unit support, the style absolutely stifled my city improvements, and a strategy with 60-80% science (on average) and much more generous city improvements including markets, banks, libraries, and universities, proved much more successful for scientific development.

 

[paramatt]

alright i'll take those tips in
umm, Isn't the republic bad with the corruption? i usually use democracy, or in the complete edition, facism (the work effiiency and corruption rate please me )

umm another point, I've edited the Full Edition of Civ3 so that the Zulu say Africa, and Aztecs say Mexico, and ect ect, will with corrupt anything? so far nothing happened, also, if I change things like, add tech advances at the start of the game, will that do anything negative?

 

[ChaosArbiter]

I played civilization 3 (the normal version, no mods) for a while, i SUCK, literally, i can't play above cheiftain

A big reason that I couldn't play above Chieftain (in Civilization, Civ2, and Civ III) is because I kept playing Chieftain. It teaches you bad habits and you will never improve if you keep playing it. Once you learn how to play the game, start with Warlord.

because my money keeps going below 0 and my units keep disbanding/buildings keep disbanding, i'm not THAT experienced, but how could i keep my income up?

Roads, Marketplaces, the Republic Government. Also, keep a look out for Rivers (they boost Commerce for tiles touching the river), some Resources (various ones increase Commerce, especially Gold, and Luxury Resources are good for keeping people happy), and good coastal sites for cities (as water tiles give more Commerce than land tiles, partially off-setting the lower Production).

I'd expand really quickly, which I noticed gives you more gold per turn, but eventually that would become useless and would eventually keep bringing me back down to 0 gold..

Not really a technique, no. What's happening is that your new cities are increasing the amount of Commerce you get per turn (leading to more gpt), but as you build more units and improvements (all of which have upkeep costs associated with them, although units are off-set by the Free Units you get from your given government), you're forced to spend more money to pay for the upkeep. Unless you keep increasing your Commerce (trading, Roading tiles that are being worked, etc), you're eventually going to run out of money.

I edited some files with the editor, such as the civilizations, I edited so that the romans got 5 tech advances and renamed the Zulu, Africans, the Aztecs, Mexicans, ect.. and now when I get to the part of the game where you can build knights, the game crashes, and I get a error message saying "cannot locate Art/Terrain/Knight" or anything it can't "locate",

Um, unless you know what you're doing (either an experienced modder, or doing something *very* simple, like changing text files that are reproduced on-screen), it's generally a very bad idea to change things, especially if you don't keep a backup.

Edit:

umm, Isn't the republic bad with the corruption? i usually use democracy, or in the complete edition, facism (the work effiiency and corruption rate please me

Republic's Corruption isn't too terrible until you start getting really big, and it's still better than Despotism in any case. Democracy is an alright govt, but it's fairly late in the game and takes two extra techs you don't need in order to get it. Fascism is also a late-game govt (and has the same Corruption as Republic), and sort of meh (in my humble opinion).

I've edited the Full Edition of Civ3 so that the Zulu say Africa, and Aztecs say Mexico, and ect ect, will with corrupt anything? so far nothing happened, also, if I change things like, add tech advances at the start of the game, will that do anything negative?

I wouldn't think so, as long as you made sure to get all the instances of the name change, but see above. Regarding the tech advantage - well, assuming it doesn't wonk out the computer, the only disadvantage I can see is that that civ would be particularly overpowered.

 

[paramatt]

meh, I actually like Facism, i don't get many civil disorders, and the work rate is 200%, and the reason i'm hesitant to expanding too fast too much is because once I get many cities, say.. 10, i'm usually at the second Era, and every turn, it takes like.. 30 seconds - 1 minute for each turn to end, it's very annoying and makes me want to just play another game

i'm very impatient, especially when you first start a game, and i can do things at a very fast pace, but later in the game its slow, and i get bored.

also, how many troops should I place in each city? i usually did 10, i found that the more troops you have, the less likely AI's demand you give them something with nothing return, or you get a big war, but now I do five, i just simply don't have the patience to build 10 units per city,

and yes i'm not changing too much, i'm only changing my favorite civilization, which would be Russia OR Rome, Russia, mostly because of the Scientific factor, and their cossacks are pretty efficient even in the modern age, Rome.. simply because their a major part in real history and i just love that

and I would fall in love with all of you if you can tell me a way to freeze the game into one era, i really just want to play in the ancient Era without uprading to the modern era, is this possible? can i do this by editing the game?

years and years of playing civilization alone, now theres online communities about it how great

 

[Aabraxan]

Welcome to CFC, paramatt!

I'd suggest that you give other governments a try. Fascism comes pretty late in the game, and requires researching optional techs. Both Republic and Monarchy are also optional techs, but they come much, much sooner, and that's very valuable. The Despo Penalty is a killer, and cuts into food, gold and shields. It's best to get out of Despo as soon as you can. Unless I'm playing All-War, I'll almost always use Republic. It takes a finer touch to run than Monarchy, but the extra cash is really, really useful.

Some suggested reading in the War Academy: (1) Cracker's Opening Plays; (2) Bamspeedy's Deity Settlers; (3) Scoutsout's Warmongering 101: A Tactical Primer.

 

[paramatt]

well, I used to use Monarchy in Civ3 (i'm playing complete edition right now) and i'd use that 999999 trick, and hurry all my troops/city improvements, i regret that, i've gained nothing from that. i was pretty disapointed that sid mier made it impossible to do this trick in complete edition so i figure it's time to man up and play properly

are their any tricks/legit techniques I can do? i am NOT going to build armies with like, 100 troops because.. i am simply not that patient, and you said something about Diety Settlers? do the settlers change when your playing diety?

 

[paramatt]

one of you asked to post a screenshot, well here it is, this is how I expand.. I built a colosus and and 3/4 turns away from the oracle.

http://i51.tinypic.com/mjxnus.jpg

 

[Raliuven]

are their any tricks/legit techniques I can do? i am NOT going to build armies with like, 100 troops because.. i am simply not that patient, and you said something about Diety Settlers? do the settlers change when your playing diety?

Depends on what you call tricks and what is legit. If you look at the GOTM (Game of the Month) and look at the rules, you will see a list of things that are and are not allowed. That will give you an idea of what can be done in the GOTM - and what you should not do. But the 'do not do' stuff is legit in other forums - such as the Hall of Fame, etc.

One example if you want a lot of money is a remote palace move away from your forgotten palace core. I did this once before I joined this site and couldn't figure out why I was raking in gold hand over fist. Now, looking back, I realize how it happened. There are other things like resource denial (putting a scout on an enemy Civ's resource so they can't connect it), and such. If you build armies - just the 3 or 4 unit types with flags - then you can mask the movemnt of other units and artillary - the AI will generally not attack a healthy army. You can move an army around in enemy territory and destroy all the improvemets, disconnect luxuries and resources and remove all the roads around a captial. Rushing palaces with great leaders and palacing jumping even qualify as 'tricks' to some players.

Some players say these are fair game, others not so much. Depends on your personal style and personal 'honor'.

As for how many units per city you should create - there is no such number. You create the size of army you need. Since I play in Monarchy, I will maintain an army as big as my unit allowance - no reason not to. Republic means you only have an army as big as you need to fight a war. And regardless, there is still no magic number - you maintain as big an army as you need to met your goal.

There is no reason to garrison any city just to have a unit there. If you are defending the city from possible attack or barbarians, then yes. If you are using MPs to control unhappiness, then yes. But there is no rule like "keep a defender in every town". That is a quick road to frustration. If you want to keep moving forward, don't build many defensive units - just keep making offensive units and keep attacking. Build only a handful of defensive units for key places (if/as needed).

 

[paramatt]

Depends on what you call tricks and what is legit. If you look at the GOTM (Game of the Month) and look at the rules, you will see a list of things that are and are not allowed. That will give you an idea of what can be done in the GOTM - and what you should not do. But the 'do not do' stuff is legit in other forums - such as the Hall of Fame, etc.

One example if you want a lot of money is a remote palace move away from your forgotten palace core. I did this once before I joined this site and couldn't figure out why I was raking in gold hand over fist. Now, looking back, I realize how it happened. There are other things like resource denial (putting a scout on an enemy Civ's resource so they can't connect it), and such. If you build armies - just the 3 or 4 unit types with flags - then you can mask the movemnt of other units and artillary - the AI will generally not attack a healthy army. You can move an army around in enemy territory and destroy all the improvemets, disconnect luxuries and resources and remove all the roads around a captial. Rushing palaces with great leaders and palacing jumping even qualify as 'tricks' to some players.

Some players say these are fair game, others not so much. Depends on your personal style and personal 'honor'.

As for how many units per city you should create - there is no such number. You create the size of army you need. Since I play in Monarchy, I will maintain an army as big as my unit allowance - no reason not to. Republic means you only have an army as big as you need to fight a war. And regardless, there is still no magic number - you maintain as big an army as you need to met your goal.

There is no reason to garrison any city just to have a unit there. If you are defending the city from possible attack or barbarians, then yes. If you are using MPs to control unhappiness, then yes. But there is no rule like "keep a defender in every town". That is a quick road to frustration. If you want to keep moving forward, don't build many defensive units - just keep making offensive units and keep attacking. Build only a handful of defensive units for key places (if/as needed).

this confuses me, what IS defensive/offensive unit? i mean, isn't a spearman good for both? i consider every unit defense/offense unless their fortified,

another thing on Complete Edition, you can sentry/fortify a unit, they both look the same, for a spearman, he puts his shield in front and a spear behind him, what's the difference between the two?

 

[The Omega]

also, how many troops should I place in each city? i usually did 10, i found that the more troops you have, the less likely AI's demand you give them something with nothing return, or you get a big war, but now I do five, i just simply don't have the patience to build 10 units per city,

That's your problem there. 10 units per city, even 5 units per city, is way overboard; you can't support a defensive army that large and still keep a strong economy running. Oftentimes, unless I need military police happiness in a city, I'll only have units in my border cities, and then only 1-2 (there are times when I have more, such as if I am bordering a very powerful civ, but those are the exception, not the norm). What's usually best is to have a medium sized force of offensive units, instead of hordes of defensive units in every city. As for what offensive/defensive units are, look at a units civilopedia entry. If you look at the entry for a spearman, you'll see that they have an attack strength of 1, and a defensive strength of 2; thus, as they are better at defense than offense, they are considered a defensive unit. This is reversed for archers.

For the difference between sentry and fortify: Sentry makes the unit wake up whenever an enemy unit comes near it. There are no bonuses in combat if it is attacked. In reality, it isn't all that useful.
Fortify gives your unit a defensive bonus.

I've looked at your picture, and to be honest, you probably could be expanding even faster. You've got very good land; if you focused more on building workers and settlers instead of making so many units+wonders, you could have even more cities out there.
On the topic of wonders: It's generally not a good idea to build ancient age wonders. You can if you want to; I still do on occasion, and it's not a horrible, you will lose the game thing if you do. But every turn you spend building wonders could be spent expanding, which in the long run tends to work out better for you. If you really want a wonder, let the AI waste their time building it, and then capture the city that it's in.

 

[paramatt]

are you serious? too much troops? haha, i thought that's what all the "pros" put in their city, and yes but i'm afraid that if i expand too much, each turn will take forever when i'm just make 2/3 (from now on) troops for the cities, and in the complete edition, you can now attack with more than one troop, stacked, so instead of attacking one by one, you can attack all at once, if i have only 2/3 troops in a city, and an AI army comes to me with about 4/5 troops, i'm screwed.

and my other worry wasn't looked over, it was, later in the game, it takes quiet a long time each turn to finish, it'll freeze a bit and then get going again, does anyone know why this happens? this is a real turn off for fun, i don't mind 2/3 seconds, but for an old game and low graphics like this, it should be pretty fast, i have a pretty decent computer

 

[Raliuven]

Ahhh. First, I have PTW, not complete, but the games are pretty much the same. Units have 3 basic values. Attack/Defense/Movement. So a spearman is a 1/2/1. It attacks with a 1, defends with a two, and has 1 movement point. An archer is 2/1/1 unit - 2 attack, 1 defense, 1 move. A horseman is a 2/1/2 unit - 2 attack, 1 defense, 2 movement.

So, the spear is a defensive unit - its defense is higher than its attack. If something attacks it, it defends with the 2. But if it attacks, it is no better than a warrior - 1/1/1 unit. But if you are going to attack, then a warrior costs only 10 shields while a spear costs 20 shields. Why use a unit that has no better chance to win if it costs twice as much? You could have 2 warriors attacking in place of one spear.

Therefore, spears aren't much good unless they are being attacked - and who wants to wait around to be attacked? Don't get me wrong- defensive units have their place, but usually not until muskets at the earliest, rifles to some extent, and finally infantry or mech infantry.

Aside from these values, you also have to know terrain, city and river values. Hills give you a +50% defense bonus, Mountains +100%, defending across a river is +50% (so don't attack across a river if you can avoid it), size 7-12 city is +50%, 13+ cities are 100%, Walls around a city are +50%. Jungel and forests are +25% (I think). If a unit is fortified thats a +25%. Terrain always favors the defender. There is no bonus for swooping down from a mountain or hillside on a cavalry charge. Thus, a spear in a city on a hill (+50%), with walls (+50%), fortified actually has a 4.5 defense. If you have a Rifle in a size 13 city on a hill fortified it has a scary 16.5 defense rating (base 6, +100%, +50%, +25%). That puts it on even footing with a Tank! An infantry base 10 in the same city has a defense of 27.5!

But the RNG is fickle. A spear can defeat a tank with RNG luck and an Infantry with a 27.5 can be killed by a warrior. Unlikely, but it can happen. I wouldn't bet the game on it.

Regarding your screenshot - I don't know if I am missing something important, but the main issue at hand is that you are way underdeveloped for 1425BC. I see limited development and only 2 workers. Citizens - the people inside the city that work the tiles - should be working on improved tiles whenever possible. Start in your core and work outwards. Connecting cities with roads decreases corruption. You don't need to improve every tile in your core - just the ones you are using. Start with all flat tiles and come back for the hills and mountains later. Tackle forests as needed but only on a limited bases to begin. Jungles are last - they are hard to clear and give you nothing for the work other than a clear tile. Improve all the tiles your capital needs, then move to your next ring of cities. Less corrupt cities generally should receive preference.

And I can't say this loud enough - you need more workers. They are one of the most critical units in the game. They may not fight wars, but they win them!

 

[paramatt]

actually I had like 10 workers, but they weren't in the screenshot, i only screenshotted about, half of what I already had, if you looked at the map, there should be about 5/6 more cities to the north-east, and 1/2 to the south-east

 

[Raliuven]

actually I had like 10 workers, but they weren't in the screenshot, i only screenshotted about, half of what I already had, if you looked at the map, there should be about 5/6 more cities to the north-east, and 1/2 to the south-east

Okay, that's good. It was hard for me to tell on the minimap. So is most of your development that direction too? I'm still a little concerned that with 7 cities (I think I count 7?) and 10 workers that you haven't laid more ground work by 1450BC. Crackers opening moves may help you there.

I'm not accustomed to your graphics - maybe its just C3C - but is that wheat next to the cow? If so, you can irrigate the wheat and plant a city next to those and tap the Bonus Grasslands and make a settler factory.

Your city placement is a little far apart. That is a matter of personal taste - but if you are looking for a quick game, play a small map with only a few oponents. Then build your cities no more than 2 tiles apart - so CxxC spacing. You probably won't get out of the Middle Ages.

As for the slowdown - that usually happens in the Middle Ages. But the the industrial age you get railroads and moving units is quick, you build things faster and you can have much fiercer battles in the Industrial and Modern ages.

I confess to being a builder though - so I love moving every unit every turn. If that is not your style, I'm not sure how to get past that. The in between turns (IBT) never last very long for me - but if you are annoyed, hold the shift button down - you will still see the AI moves but everything will happen in fast forward. That should help some.

 

[paramatt]

lol, i guess i'm a builder aswell, i just want a decently sized empire with happy people, a strong enough army to not get picked on by AI's. and there's a load of workers, but later on when i can't expand anymore, the workers will be a waste and i could just disband them and leave about 10 for pollution, since i will have rail roads by this time, 10 is really all i need for pollution

 

[Quintillus]

About the slow in-between-turns (or AI turns, whichever term you prefer) time. There are three primary factors in this in the standard game. The easiest to change is map size. Going by the minimap in your screenshot, you are playing a Huge map, or Large at the smallest. Shrinking the map size will decrease in-between-turn times considerably. The second is the number of civilizations. The more civilizations there are, the longer the AI turns take. The third is development. As more buildings, roads, harbors, and airports are built, turns take longer. This you can't really change without modifying the game or playing scenarios, so ignore it for now. My suggestion would be to try a Standard size map, and you'll probably notice the in-between-turn times are much quicker.

It's also worth noting that even the fastest computer available today will have slow in-between-turn times if you crank the settings up high enough. It probably will play a Huge map with 16 civs fairly well, but some mods have much-larger-than-huge maps with as many as 31 civs. Those bring any computer to its knees. The graphics are indeed very modest in their demands, and met by any computer from the 21st century, but the artificial intelligence is what's causing the delay you're noticing.

I agree with The Omega that you do have way too many troops per city. No matter which government you have, that's an unsupportable amount of troops. If you hit the F1 key, you can see your Domestic Advisor's screen, which details, amongst other things, the expenses for your empire (corruption, maintenance, unit upkeep, payments to other civilizations, etc.). If your government is Despotism, Monarchy, Communism, Feudalism, or Fascism, you generally want the unit upkeep cost to be near zero (with Communism and Fascism especially it should always be zero). If unit upkeep is a significant part of your expenses (especially if you are one of those governments), you are doing like the Soviets in the '70s and '80s and investing far too much of your economy in the military.

My general rule is one defensive unit per city, with more on the borders as appropriate (although almost never more than three even in a border city unless I suspect a war or the town has vital resources). A lot of veterans do play with zero in inner cities, but I'm a bit paranoid about the AI stealing a march on me and having no opposition at all.

Cutting down the number of workings to whatever you need for pollution, or a few above that, is a good idea near the end of the game. Generally, you can get a bit more mileage by having them join settlements (hit "B" when they are on a city tile) than by disbanding them, though, as the higher population will almost immediately make up for the 2 shields that disbanding a worker provides.