I'm trying to understand the commerce economy

[Platinum Onyx]

I know that every tile can't be a cottage, because the city wouldn't grow. When you are next to a river, I have a hard time deciding what to put there; a farm or a cottage. How exactly do you build a cottage economy?

 

[Polobo]

Early game (and planning somewhat for the future) I tend to have at least one riverside farm and one riverside cottage. Either one, immediately gives you an extra commerce when the tile is being worked, and if you are financial the cottage will immediately qualify for the bonus commerce. However, once civil service comes around you'll want at least 1 farm (on each side of the river) to use for chaining irrigation. Beyond that, it is a trade off between an extra early game commerce for the cottage (assuming always worked) vs. a sometimes worked farm that provides the extra commerce. Mid-Late game you can build watermills and get good productions and commerce from riverside tiles but you would not generally want to demolish a town to do so.

 

[Iranon]

You generate 5+ excess food (food resources, otherwise farms) to grow into your optimum size within a reasonable time frame, then cottage the rest. Next, you cottage food-neutral parts until none are left, then cottage over your excess farms and work whatever else there is (sometimes cottaged plains until the city doesn't grow any more, sometimes mined hills or worshopped flatlands to keep up a modicum of production).

 

[Platinum Onyx]

I'm still not clear on it, how many cottages do I need to build?

 

[Refar]

As many as you can, cant have enought of those. The only limit is - as pointed out above - what your city can support from food.

 

[hecubus]

I'm still not clear on it, how many cottages do I need to build?

I think the better question for a CE is how many farms do you need to build to meet food needs (to make up for hills or plains that give little or no food). Then cottage everything else

 

[Verge]

I know that every tile can't be a cottage, because the city wouldn't grow. When you are next to a river, I have a hard time deciding what to put there; a farm or a cottage. How exactly do you build a cottage economy?

Every tile can be a cottage if all of the tiles in a city's radius is either grasslands or (better yet) flood plains. In order to have a city population of 20 working 20 cottages, you simply need 40 production per turn. In our hypothetical scenario of a city with 20 grassland tiles in its radius, tasking every new citizen to work a cottage will actually allow you to keep growing, since grassland cottages generate the 2 needed to feed that citizen, thus maintaining your surplus.

Now, granted, your city is going to grow very slowly if you don't have at least some farms and/or farmed food resources. So I do what Iranon does: build a few farms to generate a reasonable surplus of for growth. If I have Civil Service, I build one riverside farm and chain irrigation to non-riverside tiles. In all, I usually don't build more than three or four farms; having food resources are a very nice bonus.

As my population approaches 20, I begin demolishing farms and replacing them with cottages. If I have a city with all grasslands and flood plains in its radius, that means I can remove all my farms, provided my city is not suffering from any unhealthy penalties.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

The only thing there I disagree with is the chain irrigation bit. Farms, and for that matter mines, workshops, mills and what have you, get the exact same commerce boost from being riverside that a cottage does (unless you're financial, then the cottage has a 1 commerce advantage for 10 turns. Whoo.)

Always, ALWAYS improve riverside tiles first if all other things are equal.

 

[Polobo]

Correct Re: prioritizing riverside tiles, except you don't want to build a cottage that you'll later want to remove to build a farm and/or watermill (which cannot be non-riverside).

Verge is implying that all but one riverside tile is a cottage and constantly being worked while during those times that you need to grow (a minority of the time) you give up both the cottage and riverside commerce in order to gain the food surplus.

 

[Verge]

Verge is implying that all but one riverside tile is a cottage and constantly being worked while during those times that you need to grow (a minority of the time) you give up both the cottage and riverside commerce in order to gain the food surplus.

Thanks for the clarification, Polobo, that's what I should have mentioned.

 

[Peepers]

Farms, and for that matter mines, workshops, mills and what have you, get the exact same commerce boost from being riverside that a cottage does (unless you're financial, then the cottage has a 1 commerce advantage for 10 turns. Whoo.)

Always, ALWAYS improve riverside tiles first if all other things are equal.

If you're Financial, any village+ or riverside cottage will have a 1 commerce advantage over that of a non-Financial civ's. So it isn't just ten turns of whoo. When you're Fin, the cottage is an almost obligated play.

Most definitely, those riverside tiles. They make so much difference in a city site, whether it is a production or commerce city.

 

[Platinum Onyx]

Ok, I loaded a screenshot of an earlier autosave. Can someone tell me what I should build around the city?

http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=autosaverammessesiirb3.jpg

 

[Polobo]

If you're Financial, any village+ or riverside cottage will have a 1 commerce advantage over that of a non-Financial civ's. So it isn't just ten turns of whoo. When you're Fin, the cottage is an almost obligated play.

Yes a financial civ will have a 1-commerce advantage over a non-financial civ but that bonus comes from the financial trait itself and not the river commerce. You can still building another improvement on the river and get that commerce.

The comparison being made was between riverside and non-riverside cottages, which for a non-financial leader still only provide +1/+4 commerce over the base tile. The 10 turn advantage for a Financial leader is that for those first ten turn of cottagedom the bonus commerce is in play whereas if that same cottage was built off-river it would have to become a village first in order to generate the bonus commerce.

Now, if you are not working all riverside tiles while you are working a non-river cottage you are forgoing that additional commerce. In return for a lower up-front return you give your self flexibility to build watermills (which, with electricity, make that a 4 commerce tile with hammers to boot).

 

[magichj]

Ok, I loaded a screenshot of an earlier autosave. Can someone tell me what I should build around the city?

http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=autosaverammessesiirb3.jpg

Personally I would put a cottage everywhere I could around that city except of course for where you have resources. The Cows and Sheep should provide you with plenty of food. Place mines on the hills and obviously keep your marble and get your wine. But the rest should ALL be cottages.

Of course I typically just spam cottages around my entire city except for resource squares.

 

[Polobo]

Actually, as someone who is not a cottage spammer I would concur. This is probably one of the best cottage cities I've seen in a while. You will have good production to building multiplier buildings and you can build cities as an ring around your capital thus reducing its exposure to pillaging (although you'll still have to deal with spies).

 

[Landmonitor]

I play on Monarch so take this for what its worth, but as a rule of thumb, unless I'm going full-on SE (usually only for Phi Civs), I will irrigate two grassland squares to help the city grow (in addition to whatever food resrouces), then cottage the rest of the grasslands. If I have a city rich in FP, maybe I'll just irrigate one FP instead.

This is particularly useful if you are a fan of slavery (in Civ, not in real life). I find that the extra food really helps to recover from whipping forges or marketplaces during mid-late classical era.

 

[DigitalBoy]

The only thing there I disagree with is the chain irrigation bit. Farms, and for that matter mines, workshops, mills and what have you, get the exact same commerce boost from being riverside that a cottage does (unless you're financial, then the cottage has a 1 commerce advantage for 10 turns. Whoo.)

Always, ALWAYS improve riverside tiles first if all other things are equal.

Another thing. If you're in a golden age, you get more out of having your farms on the river and cottages away from the river than vice-versa. Small difference, but yeah.

 

[Landmonitor]

Good point digital Boy. This is why I like windmills for golden ages. If you have a mine on a non-riverside tile, windmilling it gives you the same hammer bonus and you get a net +2 Commerce (at the expense of 1-2 hammers [depending on pre/post Replaceable Parts and Railway], but those are hammers that you would have even without a GA anyway.

 

[Nestorius]

If I do a CE on Monarch, Marathon, I build just enough farms (if I don't have food resources) to use enough hills to build things like markets or a military unit while still growing at a moderate pace. All other grassland tiles get a cottage. I try to found my cities so that I'll eventually have at least six cottages. If I have enough food and production, I cottage the plains, too.

 

[paydro]

I'm having a little trouble understanding the FAQ, but if I'm not mistaken, you're only getting 4 surplus food from the Cows (+2) and sheep (+2). Assuming you mine the 3 hills, you'll need those bonus foods just to support the mines. At that point you still have 6 foods to make up from the plains, so you'll actually require quite a few farms in order to get that city up to size 20 and working as many cottages as it is capable.