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I'm upset at Firaxis (New Conquest problems, O JOY!)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by computerdude113, Nov 10, 2003.

  1. computerdude113

    computerdude113 King

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    Ok, so I'm working on Noah's Arc, and Pesoloco and I WERE planning on having a custom city view, but NO! GUESS WHAT! That's disabled for scenerios! ALL scenerios! (I'm not even getting into the fact that the new wonders they made dont' even show up in the city view). Now this might not be a big deal to many people, but we were working hard on this little extra thing for our scenerio, and I know that NeOmega's Pentagenisis mod does that too! Now we can't see his great artwork in the City View and we won't be able to use ours either! THANKS FIRAXIS! (or is it Atari, who cares!)
    If someone dares to say JUST USE PTW, just no. We need the features of the COnquest editor for our scenerio, but they just blew off something that many people like and something that we were working hard on. You know, somehow I thought that Conquest was too good to be true, it seemed just so amazing, but I've had it all of 4 days and I'm already getitn upset at what was just breezed over for the new expansion pack.
    O, BTW, as a kinda off-note, can someone at Firaxis please take some of the moder's basic suggestions for additions to the game, LIKE BEING ABLE TO ADD NEW ERAS AND NEW CULTURE GROUPS! Sure it would mean a bit of work for you guys, but PLEASE!
    [/rant]
     
  2. pesoloco

    pesoloco Civ-aholic

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    I must agree that it is disappointing to see something that modders used to be able to do taken away. Maybe some people don't really like it, but I like to view my cities, especially when I build a Wonder. Computerdude113 and I were working at all new custom wonders for our scenario and it would've been really cool to see them in the city view. I just don't understand why this was taken away. It can't be because of the ability to add more buildings, that didn't stop us in PTW. So why?? AND WILL THIS BE FIXED???
     
  3. computerdude113

    computerdude113 King

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    Not will peso, WHEN
    YOU TOOK IT AWAY, NOW GIVE IT BACK!
     
  4. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    I've spent hours making city view buildings... WH-Mod has most of the buildings in city view, many wonders... It was really pain-in-the-a$$ to convert them from pedia icons, but I wanted it to be nice... so I feel the same now.
     
  5. Padma

    Padma the Inbond Administrator Supporter

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    I'll grant it is a little disappointing. But when it came down to whether to do the artwork for all the new buildings (especially in scenarios) or to produce solid code to *run* those scenarios, they made the choice to forgo the artwork. And the easiest way to avoid the problems with it was to disable the city view in scenarios.

    I don't know if you will see this "back" before Civ4. If Conquests sells enough, then maybe. But it is largely a matter of money, and where it should be spent.

    And BTW: a large number of modders were on the beta team. They made many suggestions, and a large percentage of those were included in the game.
     
  6. computerdude113

    computerdude113 King

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    I know your pain, that's what I've been doing for quite a few.
     
  7. computerdude113

    computerdude113 King

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    Padma, i know that there were a lot of modders on the beta team, but to be honest, those two things metioned all have wanted since forever (well as long as I can remember).
    As for the point of money or not for artwork, how hard is it for them to put a flag in the editor for city view or not! We've worked hard on the city view, now we don't even have a choice if it's in or not! That IMO should be easy enough for them to do, the code IS there!
    And per the scenerios, the conquests I understand, fine, too much work, but for the rest of us! WE CAN DO THE ARTWORK! It's not like we all hate the city view and none of us want it in, we like it and want to use it.
     
  8. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias I saw the Great Library burn.

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    Once again, from the Sengoku FAQ, a confession --

    "Q : Hey! I looked at the city-screen after playing this scenario for a little while, and it looks wierd!

    A : The city-screen is stubborn, and perhaps even a bit insolent. Modifying the city screen for custom scenarios is painful, and creating custom art for the city screen is even more painful. I recommend that you just don't look at it... your time is better spent worrying about your neighbors, who more than likely want to eliminate you. If you happen to be an art virtuoso and would like to supply me with the city art needed to complete the city-screen, find a way to get in contact me (you're a resourceful person!) and I will be more than happy to implement your works of art. I'll even give you credit!"

    (... emphasis added ...)

    *sigh*

    -Oz
     
  9. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    Oh and BTW I'm also disappointed by lack of other features... sure it's great expansion, nothing like crappy PTW, but come on, locked alliances are laughable! Since Civ3 was released we asked for a simple relation control like in Civ2. The second expansion came and they gave us something that being promising, turns out, in most cases, useless.
     
  10. computerdude113

    computerdude113 King

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    Yah... I saw that, hmm...
     
  11. Neomega

    Neomega Deity

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    no comment

    Also, palace view was removed.
     
  12. aaglo

    aaglo Furioso!

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    Neo, do you feel like being in the rejected minority... :p

    Even though I have to admit, that the shutdown of cityview and palaceview are saddening, they make the included conquests a bit more consistent. But perhaps thats just because the deadline the game had (not enough time for artists).

    But who knows... :undecide:
     
  13. GIDustin

    GIDustin Emperor

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    OK, I was pondering the city view for awhile and there is an easy fay for ATARI to fix th problem. For every improvement/wonder, in the pediaicons.txt there would be another line:

    #CITYVIEW_MyNewBuilding
    Art\....\MyNewBuildingTundra.pcx
    Art\....\MyNewBuildingForest.pcx
    Art\....\MyNewBuildingPlains.pcx
    Art\....\MyNewBuildingGrassland.pcx
    ....

    Each of the PCX files would be a 800x600 (or 1024x768) file with magenta background so that the position of the building is completely up to the modder and can be placed anywhere on the screen. This means that one chunk of code could handle an infinite amount of buildings. The fact still remains that you have to do the artwork, so mods/scenerios can add an option "Use City View" to turn it on or off. SIMPLE FIX!!!! Same thing with palace view, instead of files that are 300x1024, make them ALL 1024x768 so that the modder can position the palace "pieces" as they wish. I dont exactly know how they would handle "This piece can only be built if these pieces are built" however.

    Just my thoughts of what I would do if I had the source code.

    - GIDustin
     
  14. papajohns

    papajohns Prince

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    they prob hardcoded some stuff like they do to most of their stuff..
     
  15. aaglo

    aaglo Furioso!

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    @Gid:

    That citywiev could propably work... but it would also require additional files for different eras - I think.

    And your suggestion has another advantage - cities could look different - for example university would be situated differently in all terrain types, thus different layouts in cities ;)
     
  16. GIDustin

    GIDustin Emperor

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    I suppose. An unseen advantage. :)

    SO now it is:

    #CITYVIEW_MyNewBuilding
    Art\....\MyNewBuildingTundraEA.pcx
    Art\....\MyNewBuildingTundraRO.pcx
    Art\....\MyNewBuildingTundraEC.pcx
    Art\....\MyNewBuildingTundraAM.pcx
    Art\....\MyNewBuildingTundraME.pcx
    Art\....\MyNewBuildingForestEA.pcx
    Art\....\MyNewBuildingForestRO.pcx
    Art\....\MyNewBuildingForestEC.pcx
    ....

    I dont see any reason why this wouldnt work. Another thing I would like to see is this:

    #CITYGRAPHIC_RACE_Egyptians
    Art\Cities\Egypt.pcx
    Art\Cities\EgyptWall.pcx
    #CITYGRAPHIC_RACE_Rome
    Art\Cities\Rome.pcx
    Art\Cities\RomeWall.pcx
    ....

    Would that also not be awesome?? :D

    - GIDustin
     
  17. Steph

    Steph Multi Many Tasks man Retired Moderator

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    Oh! That means they have something specifically against me then, as I was not in the beta :(
     
  18. LouLong

    LouLong In love with Rei Ayanami

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  19. warpstorm

    warpstorm Yumbo? Yumbo!

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    From what I've read they aren't happy about it either. The rumor is that this was the state of the code they inherited when the original development team left to form their own company halfway through the project. There just wasn't enough time to redo it all (don't meet deadlines and you don't get paid).
     
  20. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Here's a question. Since the PTW exe file is one C3C, does that city-view work?

    I hope work is done to bring back city view. In civ2, you could talk to your advisors in scenarios, even if you didn't know what they are saying (They'd tell you to research writing when it wasn't a tech). You learned to ignore your high council in scenarios. I think they would have been better off using generic city views and had people ignore it when scenarios don't add the art.

    Of course, either way isn't the best way (the best way for mod makers would be a "disables city-view and palace" flag, but that's probably the worst thing for programmers).
     

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