[BTS] IMM & Deity lets play collection thread - Henrik

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Henrik75, Aug 26, 2021.

  1. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Played this one until 1AD, but haven't checked your game yet. Save is BUFFY.
    Spoiler :
    Went with only 5 cities, but I think should've settled 6th to claim clam+green riverside. Possibly could've gone a bit harder on specialists, but I like my cottages. Optics 25BC and immediately cold-whipped two caravels. Forgot to build a scout. Got 1st GS at 50% odds and went academy. 2nd GS at higher odds and 3rd one guaranteed so will be able to bulb astro at a decent date, 425 AD I think if I can get aesth+calendar by then.

    Civ4ScreenShot0358.JPG
     

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  2. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @crashmon thanks for the map, it's a really fun one. Heartily recommended for everyone.

    ~700BC
    Spoiler :
    If you happen to send your 1st scouting boat west, you'll soon see islands and that makes GLH pretty much a no-brainer. Nice safety from barbs :lol:, though I'm worried about barb galleys starting to spawn. Have two galleys with no urgent transport duties so looking good. Have aesth and going for lit, probably music too. Mansa just got confu and it autospread to my capital so things look sweet.

    Civ4ScreenShot0359.JPG
     
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  3. CarpoolKaraoke

    CarpoolKaraoke Warlord

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    Spoiler T74 (1040 BC) setup :


    Think a lot of barbarian pain could've been avoided with a warrior wall along the mountain and settling on stone for a 5-turn head start.

    Screenshot (19).png

     

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  4. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @CarpoolKaraoke
    Spoiler :
    I like the capital on stone. Guess I just didn't want to risk killing fish, but it wouldn't be a huge deal anyway, while 4T faster worker is a big deal.

    What's your plan concerning GP? Tech path? How many cities pre-optics? Aren't you worried that a barb will spawn on "s"?
     
  5. CarpoolKaraoke

    CarpoolKaraoke Warlord

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    @sampsa
    Spoiler Answers :


    Plan for GP: 2 scientists everywhere except Guangzhou (building Palace). Take a ~50/50 on Academy vs Engineer in Beijing - Engineer --> bulb Machinery; Scientist --> bulb Optics
    Tech path: AH, Wheel, Pottery, BW, Masonry, Writing, Fishing, Iron Working, Sailing, MC (timed for Machinery bulb option), Hunting (6th city), Machinery (bulb) or (Alpha/Math if scientist), Compass, Optics --> get to COL, trade for Alpha/Math/Calendar/Aesthetics?, bulb Astro (1x + Academy or 2x?), Civil Service.
    How many cities pre-Optics: After whipping for libraries, I usually let cities grow to happiness limit while running scientists. Afterwards, I lock in settlers and workers - workers at ~ N-1 cities - so, I plan for as many as possible within GP limits.
    Barbarian spawn on "s": Yeah, I need to send a warrior there.



    Spoiler Optics Date :


    100 BC. An engineer did pop for Machinery, although I was half hoping it wouldn't because Guangzhou already has 38 commerce per turn. Built 2 triremes but probably only going to upgrade 1 to Caravel and whip another (into Moai).

    Not too happy about GP situation - guaranteed scientist T113 and ~70+% chance scientist on T132. I think I still want an Academy on T114, but will have to try to increase T132 scientist odds via COL.

    Screenshot (22).png


     

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  6. Chris0305

    Chris0305 Chieftain

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    Hey Henrik,

    Been a fan for a long time now. I know you've been looking for a good isolation map to improve your play on. I've been saving my new games on turn 1 in case they turned out that way so I could put it here for you if you were interested. I'm an emperor player and not good at isolation, by the time I got to Astronomy was decisively behind and gave up. I went in world builder and gave 2 settlers and 3 archers per enemy civ so you could try it on diety.

    It's Wilhelm isolated fractal map.
     

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  7. Henrik75

    Henrik75 Warlord

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    impressive optics dates people posted for the mao game :blush: mine feels bad now, but i do like the stone settle idea for faster start for sure.

    @Chris0305
    For the Willem game above I will try it, looks like a nice start. If you are struggling with isolation you want to aim for early optics and have 2 scientists ready to bulb astronomy soon as you get calendar and alphabet. You can get away with optics at 500AD on deity, 800AD on imm, and 1000AD on emperor. Any later risks not getting any trades. The biggest thing I found is try not to crash your economy by settling too many cities. stop at 4 until you get libraries up, then push monarchy (or CoL with mids) and settle another 2, and firmly stop at 6, is a nice pattern i use in isolation. we have FIN and CRE as our traits which will be extremely effective for commerce, and also saving a couple units for fogbusting with free border pops. I'm already planning to upload NC289 (Willem) but if you want I can upload this one too, maybe a little later.

    Another note, when isolated, its expected you will be firmly behind, trade your way back up with astronomy and optics. If you play without trading, then you need to get early civil service and maybe even optics before meeting people.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022
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  8. Chris0305

    Chris0305 Chieftain

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    Don't feel the need to upload it especially if you're about to upload a Netherlands game lol. Yeah when I played it I didn't bulb Astronomy and wasn't the first one to get it so it had really put me behind.
     
  9. crashmon

    crashmon Warlord

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    @Henrik75 looks like your Churchill map you just uploaded has a similar dilemma in the starting position to the Maya map I posted. Maybe those type of starts are not as rare as I first thought.

    Watching how you deal with this on your Churchill map is going to be interesting to follow
     
  10. juni0rRC

    juni0rRC Chieftain

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    Hey Hendrik.

    Here is the Mansa isolation game I played. I nearly won on Immortal for the first time. I normally get completely destroyed so it's a definitely good land. It would be awesome if you tried it on the Let's Play but whenever is fine since you did play Mansa kinda recently I think.

    Thanks again for all the content.
     

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  11. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    @juni0rRC

    I will bite. I played this game up to "some point". I will not finish it. I am not sure if this similar to what you did.

    Spoiler :


    Settlement
    Spoiler :

    Moved warrior on the hill. No seafood. Settle in place because I saw floodplains on the edges.
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG
    I could have settled on the plains hill for an extra starting production but riverside floodplains are good tiles for a financial leader. I also farmed the floodplains 1E of the pigs because I plan to settle 1NW of the warrior later. The farm will help that city grow.


    2760BC
    Spoiler :

    I popped pottery off a tribal village.
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG
    It's not super consequential but you kept tribal villages on. The AIs also benefit.


    850BC
    Spoiler :

    Founded Confucianism through polytheism. Don't touch meditation. State religion and temple can give happiness if needed. With high commerce and immortal difficulty you can get away with this. Avoids the need to use libraries, research monarchy, and pay upkeep for many warriors. Since you are spiritual, you can keep switching between slavery and caste system. +100% production speed for temples.
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG
    I am getting my 2 great scientists here. Yes this is a 775BC screenshot. I took the screenshot a few turns later.


    525BC
    Spoiler :

    Researched metal casting. Your continent has gold and silver. With gold (+1), silver (+1), mint (+2), religion (+1), temple (+1), you will not run out of happiness. With nothing but pigs and fish, and floodplains unhappiness, you will not have the health to grow very big.
    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG
    Pains me to settle on gold! But the locations were just right and floodplains cottages with a financial leader are comparable to desert-gold.


    300AD
    Spoiler :

    Researched optics. Next tech is mathematics. Usually you turn the research slider off and trade for mathematics but there is so much commerce that I can just research it myself. After mathematics, still no AI, so I slipped in masonry.
    Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG
    I also used slavery to rush out a bunch of settlers immediately after I got optics.


    475AD
    Spoiler :

    The trades leading to astronomy.
    Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG

    Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG
    Pay attention to the lower right corner. Six (6) cities.


    500AD
    Spoiler :

    Astronomy. Now I settle the new cities because the trade routes means I can afford them.
    Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG
    When I first met this leader, he was upset (-4) because I traded with worst enemy. Even though they followed the same religion...? So, I gifted 10 gold immediately upon contact, then opened borders, then secured this resource trade.



     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2022
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  12. Chris0305

    Chris0305 Chieftain

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    I've been trying my hand at immortal, haven't won yet but am improving. Did a random climate Pangea map with random leader and got Portugal and Rocky and it generated probably the strangest start I've ever seen. Thought I'd post it here if you were interested.

    Spoiler Starting location :
    Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG
     

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  13. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    I don't think they are comparable at all. How exactly isn't a 3:food:3:commerce:-tile just better than a 2:hammers:7:commerce:-tile? 3/2/1-paradigm ( :food:=3 :hammers:=2 :commerce:=1) also agrees with this. Cottages also go up in :commerce: and allow growing to more 3:food:-tiles. High :commerce:, zero :food:-tiles like gold are very good in grabbing the early techs quickly, but beyond that part of the game they are just mediocre, losing very clearly to specialists also.
     
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  14. drewisfat

    drewisfat King

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    I woke up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, for I had sensed a disturbance in the force. Now I see that it was the Sith Lord Sampsa up to his usual anti-gold shenanigans. (I respect you too bro <3)
    Your 3/2/1 calculation comes out to 12 vs 11. However, the 3/2/1 paradigm very suspiciously uses even numbers. I would argue that something like 2.85/2/1.33 is more accurate albeit less catchy. Failgold and building wealth wouldn't be such popular strong plays if hammers were truly twice as valuable as gold. If we plug in my numbers we instead get 12.54 vs 13.31 in favor of 2:hammers:7:commerce:. Ignoring cottage growth, I prefer 2/7 over 3/3

    I would say you're undervaluing the game changer that gold tiles can be. Commerce snowballs as many techs boost commerce. Even if the final yield of towns is greater, they may never overcome the gold snowball. Early game gold boost opens up all kinds of wonder plays that are otherwise more dubious. Oracle -> deep sling being the obvious one, but also something like GLH I find is often prohibitively expensive because not only are you grabbing sailing early which may or may not be silly, but you have to grab masonry early and it's not even because you have a tile to quarry for a bonus resource. That no-cottage game where I raced to Monotheism for OR-fueled wonderspam is another example of gold-fueled shenanigans. Mid-game it can enable more greedy tech paths without jeopardizing TGL and liberalism. Most avg to below avg UUs are such because they don't fall along the normal bulb path, but high gold starts can make those UUs work out really well. Late game towns can overtake gold mines but only barely. I say only barely because town maximization locks you in to two civics. Also, late game food stops becoming restrictive (bio farms, corps) and you've probably stopped running slavery. Gold mines also get a boost from railroads.
    I think not working capital gold mines is virtually always a mistake, because they get that snowball working so early, and the capital always has decent food, and bureaucracy gives a further bonus to gold mines. Other gold mines are situational depending on available food. In the example game settling that southern gold mine seems fine. However, I'd be very tempted to instead found a city that can work 3 gold and 1 silver mine and rush an academy there - pigs + FPs can support this food-wise. I never build academies. Ultimately, I like high commerce tiles because they let me have fun doing different things.
     
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  15. civac

    civac Prince

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    I'm with Sampsa. :D If I have gold at the capital I prefer to settle a helper city that can work it until turn 120+ when the capital can take it.
     
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  16. CarpoolKaraoke

    CarpoolKaraoke Warlord

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    Imo Financial leaders should play isolation maps as if there are no restrictions. Settle all the food, you can pay for the expansion freely.
     
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  17. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    :lol: And I pictured myself as one of the final warriors battling against evil creatures that worship noble metals... :shifty:

    Of course, you bring up good points. Perhaps 3:food:3:commerce: (say FIN oasis) vs 2:hammers:7:commerce: is rather equal and comes down to player preference, the state of the game and the needs of the current empire. I'm not sure if 3/2/1 is very accurate or even a good way to think in general, as these values should in reality be dynamic. At the point when the best play is to build :gold:/:science:, :hammers: and :commerce: should indeed be worth roughly the same.

    Yes. My point is just that the gold tile needs to beat several cottages, which is of course possible due to snowballing (=getting key techs earlier etc). In the game in question, it's desert gold vs ***king floodplain FIN cottages. It won't get better than that for cottages and if here gold wins, I admit that it's the best tile in the game and we should all worship it endlessly. On a serious note I do agree that as long as a city is growing at a good pace or has reached current max size, a gold tile is excellent and I do agree that in capital it's most valuable, because you get to work it when working it is the best (very early).

    I am not mindlessly bashing gold-tiles (well not often), but I think their shininess has the ability to blind people.

    On to another subject, I hear some people like to build academies... :hammer:
     
  18. CarpoolKaraoke

    CarpoolKaraoke Warlord

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    Spoiler I guess I'm trolling sampsa :


    Agriculture/AH/BW/Pottery/Writing-->COL/MC opening. The complete lack of farm resources threw me for a loop. I settled Djenne adjacent to gold for early commerce boost, then settled Kumbi Saleh to run 4 scientists via Caste. Also, this settle order allows a Pig pasture toggle to help Djenne grow into the gold mine. Then settled Gao, grew it to size 2, and queued it with a continuous stream of settlers.

    Screenshot (493).png

    Of the huts on the map, I managed to gain 1 tech: Fishing. Having thus ruined any clever bulbs, and having exactly nothing of urgency to tech post COL, I proceeded to save gold until a scientist arrived for the Academy.

    At 25 BC, I finish Optics, while settling 4 more cities, none of which were on gold mines. I have a second scientist coming around T130, for the Astronomy bulb.
    Screenshot (494).png

    Bonus picture of beakers from the Academy:
    Screenshot (495).png



     
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  19. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @CarpoolKaraoke :lol: True, I need to approve an academy when isolated (or PHI).
     
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  20. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    Mansa in paradise :lol:
    In Iso i wouldn't settle on Djenne gold with shared pigs later, Sith Sampsa ;)
    Switches floodplains with river green + forest too which works.
    :yuck: looks a bit limiting here anyways.
     
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