[IMM] Some Random Game Writeup [No Huts, No Random Events, large fractal]

Manco Capac

Friday,13 June,I Collapse
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
8,051
Hello folks.

This thread is dedicated to a mod of Civ4 called TAM, that is The Ancient Mediterranean by Thamis. Indeed, this mod community has vanished along its instigator who is a paid game programmer now. TAM is one of my first mod and also one of the oldest mod, which started as a variant of Vanilla with add-ons. As it evolved, it got its own tech tree and rules and the penultimate upgrade of TAM was the adaptation to BTS.

Since the base BTS has become increasing boring for repetitively and the only incentive that kept me there was SGOTM, which in turn takes abusively too much time (far more than a single post I make here), I started to see which mod could refresh the game and gives a feel of a new strategic game. Of course, it's still civ4, but since the tech tree is often the ciment that determines the overall amount of optimal strategies, we'll see how it comes in TAM.

Most of the games will be played on IMM difficulty, which almost equates to deity difficulty because TAM was simply exported from its Warlords counterpart, thus kept its erstwhile abusive handicaps.
And how TAM was made, deity difficulty can be extremely difficult.

Quite often, mods distort so much rules to the taste of the modder that it ends up with a pretty unbalanced game and funky play can sprout from that. Amongst the mods I have played, TAM on IMM+ kept the challenge well alive.

Now, let's start with the index because it's likely the posts I'll make will be disorganized.

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====================================================================
====================================================================

First Game - Blind Play (Civ: Tartessos)




Part #1

Part #2
Part #3
Part #4
Part #5
Part #6
Part #7
Part #8

Third Game - A quest to historical Immortality
Played as Dido of the Carthaginians



Part #1

Part #2
Part #3
Part #4
Part #5
Part #6
Part #7
Part #8
Part #9
Part #10

Part #11

Part #12
Part #13
Part #14
Part #15
Part #16
Part #17
Part #18
Part #19
Part #20

Part #21

Part #22
Part #23
Part #24
Part #25
Part #26
Part #27
Part #28
Part #29
Part #30

Part #31

Part #32
THE END.

RESULT:
Spoiler :
FAILURE!



Fourth Game
Romae praeclara rutilat milia siderum


Part #1

Part #2

Part #3
Part #4
Part #5
Part #6
Part #7
Part #8
Part #9
Part #10

Part #11

Part #12
Part #13
Part #14
Part #15
Part #16
Part #17
Part #18
Part #19
Part #20

Part #21

Part #22
THE END
STATISTICS

RESULT:
Spoiler :
WIN! Cultural Victory by assistance of espionage in 400 BC.

Discussions and Strategy






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Spoiler :






Got this nice hispanic/Iberian fellow:



Some details about him and the civilization under his iron fist:







Not a top tier leader like Hammurabi, but he'll do with the capacity to build workers right away.



The start:



No decent food around. Ugh. But timber is great as hell.





I wonder if there is something hiding in the fog. Because this start severely lacks in food.
Note that the many forest tiles around me are in fact called dense forest, a healthy version of jungle. I got only one forest tile and it's the timber tile one.

See ya next round for another cheap @$$ update.
 
Unfortunately there are a few writeups here played on modded game. I am so happy to see one, especiialy the mod i havent played and don't know yet (I usually play Master of mana, Total War or rarely PAE). Good luck, it would be for sure exciting experience also for us.

I don't know whate are the yields in this mod, but I suppose there are sth similar to mods I played - so the start is more than very nice in case something foodish in the fog (I see one week early food resource)

Warrir 1 SE to see is there anything interesting on the coast. Blue circle indicates there are some seafood probably (it wot be blocked for future use by SIP).

I consider settling 1 NE for additional commerceif the seafood is weak. (do border pops in this mod early or you have to build a palace or other culture building before?)
 
The problematic with this mod is the difficulty in settling your capital. The rules about new resources are different. And on top of that, some really good ones are under either forest/dense forests, making the identification impossible and moving may be a capital error. We can see the timber (which final value is as good as grass copper), but nothing tells me I have another one. A good one is like fruits and is often seen under forest. If I move, I risk to lose some nice resource. The one 1SW of timber is grapes and only worth like a dry rice resource. Not fabulous at all. The spices are just like the regular ones.

Anyways, let's suppose there is something juicy in that unforested tile we can fog-gaze.
Nope. Nothing remarkable. That start isn't a good one. And those forests around are all jungle in reality, but since the mod represents antiquity of Europe, it was replaced to dense forests and those are weaker form of forests: No health and weaker chop output. IIRC, there is no MATH tech equivalent boost for chops in this mod, making those dense forests embarassing, especially when I need to tech deep in the tech tree to get rid of them.
Spoiler :



There is a blue circle, but I'm not willing to sacrifice those spices. Despite weak in food, the fact it's almost all grass land, the city certainly can reach high population at some point. It's just weak early. I'm tempted to settle on the grapes and that gives the fastest early boost along the 4 output unimproved timber.



But I decided to take my chance and go for it.




Seeing those pathetic plain tiles, I didn't see the advantage gained and I just moved backward. One lost turn isn't the end of the world.




A nice point to note is the absolute lack of free health early game. Yes, if you got no fresh waters and a all dense forest start, you start terrible. At least, I have fresh water. Happy cap is as strong as we could see in Vanilla/Warlords time. To note that mod started around Vanilla time and never got adjusted to BTS handicaps, so harder higher levels. It was made workable on BTS, but not adapted to its time since the maker, Thamis, retired from Civ4 activities.



While moving NE, I spot pigs. As strong as the original Civ4 game. Shame I didn't get those around my capital.



Since the timings are different here, I was able to get a warrior out before starting on a worker. Let's explore what I potentially missed.



In the far far north, I meet my first ancient time neighbour, Semiramis of the Assyrians. Ouch, I know her: she's one of the big gun in this mod. Expand fast, tech fast and do everything fast. This mod is about ancient civilizations and I could class into two distinctive ones: the ones who start with Tool Working tech and those without it. What's the fuss about it? Well, workers availability. That tech enables workers, so you can imagine those not starting with that will lag all game along. And quite often they are minor nations like Celtia or everybody defined as Barbarians by Romans. The Assyrians are starting with Tool Working and they are strong civ. On top of that, with that leader music theme being Gilgamesh, it exarcerbates the fears. :) Note I start with Tool Working, which is awesome.





Timber needs the following tech to Tool Working, that is Wood Working. I timed the best I could of the worker dispatch and the tech researched. Another good point with starting with Tool Working is the Wood Working beeline, which allows you with early rush. Skirmishers are enabled and are 3 strength units that work like catapults. They weaken up to 80% lower health bar. And the early archers are 2 strength ones with 50% bonus against skirmishers. Plus typical 50% city defense. But my civ, the Tartarossians, got a nice trait about skirmishers, giving Collateral promo level I for free. That justifies some rush to get some better capital.



To my west, I meet Alaric of the Goths.



Oh my, who is there next to me in those jung...err dense forests.



Border pops take time, 1cpt for a 10 turns waiting in normal speed. To note defensive enhancements with culture are bad in this mod. Look at this pathetic 5%! If you got no outer resources, no need to enhance city level culture for defense. Walls are strangely useful occasionally since they markedly enhance the city defenses.



Look at it, it's Lovely Caesar of the Romans. People dislikes regular civ4 Julius, but that one in that mod is strangely affectionate with everyone, giving +4 for strengthened peace. Lol at that. Note I mostly need PLEASED stances to OB and tech trade in this mod. The diplomacy is harder.



Since Semiramis is the badass of my region, all espionage points on her.



No panthers! Oh gives me 65% of winning if they attacked me. Hmmm...



Beyotches pls.



Let's see the surroundings of Julius. Ugh, dense forest city. Great, not a fabulous neighbour to rush. I'm stumped for every side.



Yay! Wood Working in. It allows me to improve this timber tile, which is without doubt the best for now and quite synergetic with early rush. I can make skirmishers and rams (which is an early form of catapults without collateral abilities nor any attacking abilities; 5% per shot. Not useful at this point since most capitals are 5%. IIRC, second culture level acquires 20%. ) I can build carpenter buildings and wood walls. But the carpenter building is utter bad if you got no spare health. It gives one hammer for the price of one health, which is unacceptable early.



I see some unforested tiles I could farm (need food!) and I could get access to grape additional health with Agriculture. So it's the next tech in line. Wheel is also nice to keep the worker busy, but no.



Let's improve the timber ,shall we?




Sorry buddy Julius, you are my target. I need moar cities than buddies. Note in this mod settlers cost
Spoiler :
200 hammers!
Do I need to justify an early rush anymore. :rolleyes:



See you around for supplementary pathetic actions. :goodjob:
 
Spoiler :
Another update.

Now sending a warrior southward to see what kind of goodies I can get. I see those nice fruits resource, but under dense forest, thus not accessible short term.




Since settlers cost an immense 200 hammers, I'm still roaming around Rome to prepare the assault.



Both warriors are joining arms.



Some more exploration of the most southward tip of the continent.



And there I meet the Scythian empire.



At this point, I started to train javelineers, which are great to weaken 2 strength archers. To compare both, archers gain a 50% against javelineers, but javelineers are 3 strength, which means it's an equalizer. But deep hidden in combat mechanics, the javelineer has the upper hand because Combat line is more favorable to the strongest of units. Archers are also getting 50% for city defenses like normal games, but javelineers simply have the role of soften the defenses so Warriors can take over. Yes, javelineers behave like catapults so they can't capture a city.




See that nice timber tile. Really powerful for early production. And now 4 turns javelineers.



Finally, I got a hill that allowed me to view over a distance and grasp a glance of Rome. Nicely weak. At least another fruit resource, but under dense forest. Again, that is a weak city.



While investigating the espionage screen, I see Julius constructing something big and over 100 hammers. Indeed, it strikes me as a settler.



Finally got Agriculture.



Still unsure of the path I will take, but I know I shall get Mining tech, so I can chop those dense forests (which the game still mistaken as jungle tiles).



Julius has swapped civics. Barter gives a lil extra commerces for pasture resources and Despotism lowers city distance maintenance a little. As far as I recall, tribalism gives 50% more maintenance while Despotism is 25% more, thus -25%, but still high. The downside of TAM mod is the civic are better progressively; it's a succession of better civics that let few situational decisions making the beauty of civics like in Free Market vs SP when confronting corps. vs hammer economies.



Here's the civic screen.



Given I'm low in improvement choices, I see I can at least farm that salt deposit for a correct 3 food 2 commerce.




Now I have a sufficient number of javelineers, I need warriors to actually invade the roman city.

 
Spoiler :
Awesome! I got another dense forest in the only other improve-able tile.



I see the mighty Assyrian empire is already growing strong. A second city that early.



Now my army is ready to attack. I just wait for the settler to be out.






Oh noes, it's a failure!



Next turn, phew! I still got a chance.



If I fail that...



Nope! And a nice 60 sack treasure along a weakly expensive city.



Gotta admit at that distance, it's a bit of an expensive city.



But looking at those forest health points, at least compared to my capital, I got some forests.



Wheel tech in. Same effects as the original game.



Let's explore the surroundings and expel some barbs.



I chose Hunting and start my own settler since I am running out of choices.



Once Rome resistance ended, I started Caravan building, which is a much weaker form of culture+wealth build. It's 20% in wealth and 25% culture. I just want to expand the city and ease the maintenance a little.



But before that, I think a warrior shall be fine while growing in a timing manner.



Now it's time to explore northward. Those rivery lands are perfect for more commerce.



I see stone.



Sadly, that region is quite food poor.



Hunting tech in. No difference from the base BTS.



Uh-oh! Semiramis just got Writing tech, allowing tech trading. She's jogging quite fast.



And now, while exploring northward, I see something quite pleasant. Let's hope there is more along like food to justify a gold rush.



And there comes the first barbarian units. At least, archers are far less dreadful. Nonetheless, at some point, there will be Javelineers, which can be a pain, although riskless for losing a units or a city.



Finally, T50 has arrived and I got the list of strongest nations. I got 4th place. That early, it's possible when the AI's rush for expensive settlers, but on IMM TAM, that can reverse quite quickly.



Now, I see even more incentive to settle that gold city. Ivory being another happy resource I desesperately need. And I got at least cow for some pseudo-food.


 
Spoiler :
Those lions have no chance against my atlatls.



But uh-oh! Bears. Run for it.



Since my economy starts to tank and my workers have nothing to do else, I start roading between the two cities to get my 2 commerces from trade routes.



Animal Husbandry is a strong incentive tech for giving a building, the tavern, that gives +1 happy and +1 commerce along some espionage points. The happy is certainly welcomed, but the commerce is even more as a tamper or working like a courthouse but the effect is direct. Not to mention the cost of the building is ridiculously low.





Now, I really want Mining tech to finally jump economically. Dense forests are a development killer.

Look at that! We're so behind in city sizes. Barely T60 and Assyria already gotten a capital of population 8.



Upon discovery of fruit resource along cow, gold and ivory, there was no stopper to settle that spot. I started to prepare the settler rush.





Finally, the settler has arrived!



Barbarians are awaiting too!



Looks like Semiramis too! :(



Now the settler is ready to found the best city of the region. Going to work improved ivory while building Caravans to border pop.






Looks like Barbarians are going nuts.




Pottery is in. It doesn't differ from the original one in BTS.



I can almost feel Mining.



Semiramis is plotting and I am almost next to it. No fears yet because I think I could handle any rush at this point of the game. It's not like an axe rush vs my sitting ducks archers. It's going to be just like me vs Julius, but without the sitting duck attribute he had. And the nice aspect of this mod is nerfed mounted units. All mounted units got -50% strength while attacking a city. Either a nice way to end the reign of overpowered mounted warfare but also welcoming the sluggish one mover warfare, which has its own deal of problems. Man, she got her 4th city. So fast. At least, soon, I'll get knowledge of what she is up technologically.





Nice. I spot another happy resource, being the wine (with a new graphics icon).



I just spotted a Scythian scout, meaning they are probably near. Also see what the Assyrians are teching now. Looking at the tech tree, I'm pleased to see how the AI diverts from beelining so much while I'm beelining critical techs.




I am now starting to put espionage on the Goths and I see they are quite expanded too, but not as much. The reason lies on the big weakness of the mod being the Tool technology allowing workers training. You know the IMM AI receives free workers, normally one for IMM on BTS, it's 2 for Vanilla civ4 including this mod based on vanilla days handicaps. Because Alaric of the Goths ain't got Tools, then he didn't receive his free two workers and that is a huge drawback compared to favored Semiramis.
And honestly, I like having Tools starting leaders around, so I can steal their workers, especially when I play a minor nation like the Goths.



Finally, I got a view of some part of Assyrian empire.

 
Spoiler :
Barbs are starting to become ebullient as they are starting to become green-eyed. Because it is a mod, I have the experience of when the barb invasion will start. The least I know is the rule is the same as BTS, but looking how fast the AI expands, it becomes alarming.



Starting to pre-road the awesome city of Hispalia.



Uh-oh! It came...and back luck too.




No....no...no! Please RNG gods have mercy. They are not 3 strength archers, how can I be losing!



And it arrived! Well, f-ck this game, f-ck life.



I'm done with this game!!!!!


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As if! He he. Let's be dramatic for suspense....
 
That was a lot of scrolling, even before you put in a lot of scrolling lol.

If all that forest is really just jungle then it seems like you have a huge amount of un-settleable area. Does fogbusting or fortifying on a forest hill work against barbs?

When you took Rome you were saying how bad a city it was. Hindsight being 20/20 would it have been better to just leave them alive to settle cities for you? Very high settler cost seems to imply let the AI build cities while you build units to take their cities. And you have a super early Catapult like Javelin for it.
 
That was a lot of scrolling, even before you put in a lot of scrolling lol.

If all that forest is really just jungle then it seems like you have a huge amount of un-settleable area. Does fogbusting or fortifying on a forest hill work against barbs?

When you took Rome you were saying how bad a city it was. Hindsight being 20/20 would it have been better to just leave them alive to settle cities for you? Very high settler cost seems to imply let the AI build cities while you build units to take their cities. And you have a super early Catapult like Javelin for it.

:cooool: Ok, I really wasn't expecting any answers because I played on some obsolete mod or basically a mod and I know people here are close-minded regarding that.
That's nice though.

The area is settle-able, but problematic until Mining tech. Dense Forests (a.k.a. jungle tiles with a lil chop value and no health malus or bonus) are a big early choke. Any AI starting there will have problems and the human even more (when IMM+). Why do I start there in a random script?; reason is simple being the normalizer doesn't recognize that as a threat/bad feature. It basically regards that just as a forest because the ouput is as good. In the end, when starting in dense forests, moving in the dark the initial settler is the best move but also the worst for giving random results and lost turns. And second best corollary is approaching ourselves to an AI, thus ability to make an easy rush. And since the moving the Palace ability needs to tech half the tech tree, that backs up that even more.

It's true I should have done that. But I wasn't sure because the whole area is dense forests and I wanted to kill the roman culture immediately, so I can exploit the city at its maximum. I think, normally, the best move is just capturing the capital once the AI has settled its second city and then ceasefire and let them live and expand while being sitting ducks. And add to that vassals (or city-states) did not get included in the mod because it was started a year after the release of 2005 civ4. So, letting sitting duck AI's aren't a problem at all.

The Javelineer is like a catapult, but without the bombard aspect. Not that it matters because the defense bonuses are ridiculous (5% for border pop and 20% for second border pop).

Anyways, I think people should give a try to read it, because I think I will intent to go over one game here. And the ultimate goal is winning IMM culture. Yes, in that mod, surprisingly, culture victory amongst crazy techers and with few alternatives towards culture is hard. Deity in this mod is just insane. Just like deity Warlords.
 
Here we were left in this mess.
Spoiler :



Finally, Copper Working tech is researched. I can chop normal forests, build quarries and it reveals copper. Basically a partial combination of base BTS BW and Masonry.



Hispalia now works a good tile being the cows. Luckily, the fruits are under a forest tile and since I just got copper working, I can now improve it.




Resentful of what happened, I won't let those punks get away like that.



The Goths also got Writing tech and I can peek their advancement. Unfortunately, I see some AI temper tantrum (probably due to hidden diplo modifiers like score position) and now I am the worst enemy. Hope I won't be the target of his rage.



A great even occured. The Assyrians gave up in their plans of conquest. No more WHEOOH. I suspect their expansion curve went so fast that the conditions for pursuing the war planing flopped. Basically, if the empire development (basically population) goes over a threshold compared to the rate of attacking units they can spew, the Wheooh is relinquished. Nice.



Barbs messing with me.








Oh, we are about to expand culturally. Upon greater cultural borders, I see the southern potential city is a boon. Fruits (as good as a wet corn) plus 2 gems site. Perfect once Mining tech researched.





Now comes to exact my revenge!



So furious, I took my chance. I was't in a hurry to take the city, but hell let's see if the RNG gods favor me now.



Hell yea!




Now, I'm tired of the barbarian harassments, thus I am starting to fogbust the neutral region between Hispalia and my capital.




An interesting point of this mod is the sheer difficulty in harboring good relationships with the AI. All the AI's need PLEASED stance for both tech trading and open borders. And we all know open border action is the seed to start a good relationship and we are disabled of it at the beginning. I see Semiramis having a couple of nice techs, but I don't see any ways to make her pleased. Not to mention several leaderheads have strong bad attitude modifiers against everyone. Arminius of the Germanics is terrible needing a whooping +7 attitude modifiers for PLEASED stance. So, it is rare I get along him.



hmmm...not liking this unit bragging.



Now I'll soon get two more happy resources I desesperately need, I need to connect Hispalia to the rest of my empire.




And the moment has come. Gulp!



Yeah! Attack those puny Scythians and leave me alone! But let's assure he will either attack a strong unit of mine or go for the dark green nation.




Moar defenses in Hispalia because its loss would be catastrophic!



Lol! The Goths actually want to start a war with just Tribal Warriors. What a noob!

 
Sometimes getting as much as you can out of a rival Civ doesn't mean capturing their city as soon as possible. For example, another Civ has it's own counter for Great People so if you let them live longer sometimes you get a better city out of them in the end. You can generate a GS while they generate a GP to Shrine their religion is the most obvious example. Also can let them build wonders for you, extra trading partner, bribe them into war against Assyria, etc etc.

Anyways, I think I played the TAM mod or one just like it in Civ III, but Civ IV is an entirely different animal. I'd personally rather read a strategy writeup about a good mod like this than the same boring BTS for all eternity.

The problem with a mod so different from regular BTS is that it's very hard to keep up when you don't have the Civilopedia at your fingertips. Even when you had the unique units explained at the beginning I would forget what the abilities were as you use them much later on. Sometimes hovering the mouse over whatever you're talking about in a screen shot (which you did a lot, but not all the time) helps with that.

Anyways, if you're not gonna continue I'd compliment you on the most detailed writeup with pictures I've ever seen for the first 78 turns lol. If you do it again I suggest including "The Ancient Mediterranean" somewhere in the title so people know what the thread is about. Eg. "Tachy plays TAM". No shame in regenerating the map until you get something decent either. One last thing, spoilers for images also please, this page takes a very long time to load.





Edit: I wrote this before the last update cause I thought you said you were stopping lol. Kudos on keeping on & good luck.

What do you need to mine the Gold & also build a cottage or similar improvement to boost commerce?
 
Let's make an anecdotal detailing of the early tech tree to grasp how to win in TAM:



Here are several points:

  • We see the upper side is for empire developments and the lower side is the religion and wonder line.
  • Writing allows tech trading. Not bad being early, but AI needs PLEASED to trade away, thus doesn't matter after all.
  • Scouts aren't useless anymore. They start with Sentry!
  • Archery is after all good! It gives the Hunting Lodge, which is +1food, +1 gold and +2 espionage. For a cost of 40 hammers. A really good building.
  • Despotism tech is rather special. We can't tech trade that one or get it through trade. Some techs are forbidden for trades. That's how the game was set.
  • We see we need a tech to start on workers. That's the very first downside of TAM. Some will start with Tools while others don't. And we know workers are all for empire developments.
  • Here a list of buildings caracteristics:
    1. Tribal Council: +1 :science: and +1 :culture:
    2. Cemetary: +1 :health: (cost: 20 hammers)
    3. Carpenter: +1 :yuck:, +1 :hammers: . 5% modifier if you got two resources connected.
    4. Palissades: 10% defense
    5. Hunting Lodge: +1 :food:, +1 :gold: and +2 :espionage:. (cost: 40 hammers)
    6. Tavern: +1 happy, +1 :gold: and +2 :espionage: (cost: 40 hammers)
    7. Obelisk: +2 :culture:
    8. Stonehenge:free obelisk in every city, centers the map and +2 :culture: and +1 priest GPP (cost: 150 hammers)
    9. Harbor: +1 :food: , +1 :yuck:, +50% trade routes and +2 XPs for navy
    10. Lighthouse: +1 :food: on water tiles(cost: 60 hammers)
    11. Coastal Watchover (NW): one hammer on every water tile (Moai), +1 merchant GPP, 250 hammers of cost (sped up with stone).
    12. Granary: Works just base BTS except no health bonuses with grain resources
    13. Oracle of Dodona: 25% culture in city, +1 priest GPP, +1 happy and +2 :culture: (cost: 250 hammers and sped up with incense IIRC)
    14. Holy Site: +1 happy and +1 :culture: (cost: 40 hammers)
    15. Well: +1 :health: (cost: 30 hammers)
    16. Slave Markets: +1 angry and :health: for +2 :gold: and a citizen (the bad specialist of one hammer) and a trade route. Another -1 angry/:yuck: under slavery civic (cost: 80 hammers)
    17. Smithy: +1 happy, +1 :yuck:, upgrade weapons (basically free Combat-like promos) and 5% modifier for two specific resources accessible (cost: 100 hammers)
    18. Archery Fields: +2 XP for archery units (cost : 60 hammers)
    19. Library: +2 :science:, +2 :culture: and that's it. (cost: 80 hammers)
    20. Tower of Babel (wonder): +2 :culture: and +2 engineer GPP, +1 pop in every city, +1 priest specialist (cost : 250 hammers that can be sped up with stone).
    21. Burial Mound: +1 :health: and +1 :culture: for cost : 50 hammers
    22. Pyramids: +6 :culture:, +2 engineer GPP, +1 engineer specialist, Golden Age (cost : 250 hammers), stone as mutliplier.
  • Religion is nicely located. Once an AI has gotten a religion, usually, he won't try to snatch another one. Thus, there is a noticeable chance to grab one religion for ourselves.
  • Religion spread is working differently. It's automatic and there are no missionaries except for the dead last religion being Christianity. And older is the religion (earlier in tech tree), weaker spread RNG. It was a way to equalize religions.
  • We see the Wood Working, Copper Working and Mining line is a crucial aspect of a civ development and military.
  • Mounted Units tech seems good, but mounted units have -50% strength against cities or defending in cities. It's a major difference!
  • We observe two cheap buildings (40 hammers each) that give a whooping total of +4 espionage and spies are enabled with Alphabet. This mod seems to have a nice leaning towards espionage economy.
  • There are no multipliers buildings for over half the game. Indeed, what defines base BTS is the right use of modifiers and city specialization. Here we have a bunch of buildings that give a rate of an output (like the library giving +2 research that's all), but no modifiers. That leads to the problematic the research rate is weak for small empires. Big empires are favored! That's another downside of this mod.
  • NO GPEOPLE EARLY! That one is a major disappointment. Except the occasional GPriest of GEngineer from a wonder, no early buildings give a specialist slots. And you may think there is a sorta caste system civic. Well, it really exists and bear the name of Patronage. Problem is it's the dead last civic enabled by a late tech. We need early, not that late. That kills the whole bulbing strategy.
  • Cottages take 15 turns on normal speed instead of usual 10 turns.
  • Wonders have a pretty weak culture rate or benefits. And few of them are almost a must have.

Now, the question is: If I was going for a cultural victory, I see the hardships would be far more tremendous than a military victory. No early GPeople, no great culture rates from wonders, almost no multipliers, etc.

But, I see a light: cultural victory by assistance of espionage. :think:

EDIT: And now I have just discovered we can only have 4 spies at a time. Sheesh...
 
I've just read it. I liked that the Scythian leader described himself as wise and really quite beautiful :rolleyes:
 
Spoiler :
Short on decent buildings (simply said not all buildings are equally valuable), I start another settler in an attempt to fill the neutral zones. On IMM, the succesful AI's like the Assyrians will expand faster than the craziest Zara Yacob you could ever see!



Finally, the last touch to connect Hispalia to the rest of my empire.




That other zone below my capital and Rome is potential danger; I move my warrior there slowly.



Well, peaceful times can to an end.



Mining tech is in! Finally I can chop those infamos dense forests and be capable to mine my gem and gold tiles. And Mining is the beacon of the Bronze Age. Stone Age no more.




Now I get access to many high commerce tiles (IIRC 5 gems tiles plus a gold tile!), I beeline the wonders+religious path. I want my own religion and gamble if I can get the Mids and Sphinx. The mids are a wonderful wonder that gives the highest culture rate of 6 plus a golden age and 5 GPP of GEnginneer through the wonder itself and a free engineer. Did you know the engineer specialist in TAM is brokenly good. You wouldn't want something else as it gives +1 food and +2 hammers. And combines with +1 science or gold depending of the civic and the GPP and you get almost a powerful specialist. The great aspect of getting the Mids is getting a GEngineer, thus the GEngineer allows to bulb Masonry, which is the equivalent to Military Tradition in stock BTS. Axemen are brokenly good in TAM. But that discussion my be postponed.



Da Gold rush.



Now, I see the covetous eyes of Semiramis. She wants my lands.



And here comes the duality of barb javelineers. They can win the battle since they are like siege units of BTS, but they hurt to badly that any tribal warrior/archer will win after his passage. And comes the infamous eternal cycle of attacks from the javelineer if I heal my unit (a.k.a don't move it). That will bring XP and they will grow stronger and stronger.



T100 has passed. I'm the sixth most largest nation. At a price? F-ck yea. I'm backward.



Oh SHI-



You will pay later for this.



Finally, I can settle that southern city. Now I have Mining tech, I can chop and make it worthwhile, extremely worthwhile.



Double Oh SHI-




Take that Javelineers!




Looks like the WHEOOH Goths got something better than tribal warriors after all!



Goddamit. Semiramis likes the Scythians. That leaves few options of war target for her.



And finally, the waves of javelineers ended.



In my face. Soon, I'll spit on your grave, twice!



One of the best building to start working on is the tavern. Gives strong output, but also cheap and the +1 gold is like a mini courthouse.



It's pretty bad to see such unimproved city, but that's the deal with choked cities in dense forests.



Since I want to retaliate against Semiramis lest she becomes a monster and I can do zilch, I check the power rating. Uh oh. The expansion phase is shifting to the military phase.



Then! Off to Masonry tech and the grandiose Axemen!

 
Thanks for the tech tree diagram and write up, that was helpful since for the moment I'm still too lazy to go and research the mod myself. I like the leader pics so far, you have a hot ancient chick and Theoden.

I'll just bounce off ideas and you can decide if they'd even work or not.

Build more workers. : )

Masonry looks like it gives you :strength:5 Swordsmen, reveals Marble, and maybe gives the other half of BTS Bronzeworking with a Slavery civic that lets you whip. If so that is awesome.

Do you happen to have any wonders already with a resource connected that you could whip overflow into for failgold?

I think I see a very nice production city that gets Timber + Stone NW of capital, hills and floodplain in second ring. I think that is the next city site because the resources aren't under jungledenseforest.

Now that you do have a coastal city, consider sea teching up to Exploration rather than Religion. In the short term you get to explore coastlines and an idea of how big your landmass is. Long term you want to eventually set up open borders, trade routes, maybe a lucky religion spread and use your unique boat for trade missions.

Wild idea: wait for white to declare war, conquer her until you can extort the all the techs, then liberate cities back until you get to pleased and you have a weakened trading/stealing techs ally. If so you should research techs to unlock her good techs so you can extort them and not the cheap techs. Do you have a Woodsman II anything that could safely do a lap around her territory?

Screenshot requests: F2 Financial, F3 Civics, F8 Victory : )
 
DIDO of the Carthagians

A QUEST TO HISTORICAL IMMORTALITY

I had come to the theoritical conclusion that a cultural victory is harder on this mod since the diplomatic stunt and because the severe lack of early specialists slots. And on top of that, I just realized there are no religious buildings with cultural mutlipliers, which makes the cultural victory harder. Combines with dangerous neighbours that tech at lightspeed, you won't won cultural before they either destroy you or wins the Silk Route Project (equivalent to a Space Race).

This game is not meant the end of the precedent one. But it went so great (but not finished yet and not necessarily won) I need to start posting about that one.

So, the settings. Again on Immortal and fractal. No huts and no events. The small variant is I reduced the map scale down to Standard. Less AI's make the cultural victory more viable and heck it's the standard mapsize. For a militaristic approach, I would choose Large size, but I intended from the very beginning towards Culture.

Let's start, shall we?

Spoiler :

We have Dido, the founder of Carthage.
Of course, everything is randomly rolled and I'm quite exquisitely glad to get another nice Tool starting civ. Those are the best.
We also have Ceremonial Burial, which is a direct lead to an early religion.
The Cothon is irrelevent being simply a cheaper harbor that gives just one more XP to naval units.
The units may become irrelevant since I don't take the all-out war approach except my nearest neighbour, if I have one. The Carthaginian WElephant has one more strength, but still a unit with -50% attacking a city, thus less shiny than base BTS. But on fields, can be quite a nice defender.
Gotta like the expansive free food.






Starting location. Ugh brownies. But wow frikkin' best early commerce tile, amber! Gives one more hammer plus 4 commerce. Seems low compared to gold or gems but a reminder you need the far away tech Mining to get those online while Amber just needs Wood Working, which is just past Tool tech. And guess what! I've got Tools.



Took my chances and moved 1NW to see if I can get greener. And I got Fruits. Nice.



Let's explore.



Free forest.



Oh my lawd. This was the best news. I've got the best leader of the mod met on T4, which means at best 8 tiles away. He's also got Tools, which means two free workers for me. That leader is awesome for being ORG, CRE and also the unique building being the minoan labyrinth, allowing the earliest GEngineer slot. Either good for rushing a wonder or bulbing the most awesome tech, which is Masonry (buffed axemen, slavery, etc.).



And stone. Man, I knew at that moment I've got chances for a cultural victory.



Get away from me, pedobear.



This landscape is eye candy. Another amber tile and gold tile combined with flood plains.



And I detect the minoan borders.




Ouch, well guarded and Minoan archers are pretty tough nut with 4 first strikes.




Let's roam around.



Gotcha!



I prepare the slave route.



Oh noes. You can't be serious. He just adjoined his second worker to the first. Just perfect. :3





He just trained a tribal warrior. Seriously AI, no tribal warriors, moar minoan archers...ugh no after moar tribal warriors.



While I was gunning for early happiness with the first religion being Animism, I see the bastard just trolled me.




Slave route.






Nao, peace.




 
Spoiler :


I see the lions are a pain to my future slave route, thus I lured them into the forest for funni bizness.



Slave tied on chariot route 100% completed.



Look at this. I've just discovered the game is already in penury of modifiers, but the capital got a bad hidden one I've just discovered. Looks like a capital is more subjected to propaganda and dogma...whatever it is as a reason.



Ah! The auld lang syne stock BTS behavior with the AI supplying in workers.





OH SHI-




Never mind. Got my lucky 50% coin flip.



Yeah, war is pointless Minos. Just end it beyotch.



Me too, I look forward years of peace with the Minoans.



The timing is almost perfect. I think I'll get the workers arrived just in time for improving the amber. I admit the Animisn rookie choice was overkill, but that's not the end of the world.





Sempiternal best stone age tech: Wood Working.



Ambers. Look at that, 1 food, three hammers and 4 commerce. Just admit it's a great tile. The fact the forest can be kept make the tile superbly worth.




Time to put a stack into Minos' @ss.



I choose the Wheel because I want my workers to have something to do and I'm not in a hurry to expand yet plus growth already at its limit. And I want to ferry my army faster. Since the minoan capital is a touch nut to crack, I'll need a costly army to be sent.



Wow! So scary.



Hmmm...annoying border pop because Minos is creative plus an early religion. Reminder that a capital gets originally +1 free culture, creative is another +1 and the holy site is +2 culture. Yeah, all seem nerfed, but the whole mod is like that. Few benefits on stuff.



The army will rise.



I see Minos is busy training a settler. Best defense evaa.



Oh wait, decades have passed. Time for some tribute.




Glad you don't put up any resistance this time, puppy!







 
Are you still gonna go back and finish the first game? Otherwise all my genius advices from never playing this mod will be wasted!
 
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