[Immersioneers] 'To Boldly Go': The first Immersioneers test-game(s)

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Multiplayer' started by stiiknafuulia, Oct 22, 2016.

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  1. Magnive

    Magnive Emperor

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    Sometimes, 60 seconds really isn't much. If tech, civics, and district placement line up, you can easily need more time than that. I think that the best way is to just have no turn timer at all, and rely on people to act end their turns in a reasonable time.

    I think that this is the best way to go. If you're stubborn and think you can win, then you're welcome to try, but don't be surprised if it ends up just making things worse for you.

    Possibly. It might be easier to have separate sets of game rules. For example, one announces that they're hosting a game (or looking for somebody to actually host) with the 'standard' rules, or with 'advanced diplomacy' or somesuch.
     
  2. stiiknafuulia

    stiiknafuulia King

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    I've been very busy the past few days, but the hurries should be over now... I will post the final(ish) rule-set sometime tomorrow, and

    we'll start the game on the 30th.

    It's best to announce all times in GMT, to avoid any misunderstandings.
    For now I propose a starting time of 11 AM (11:00) GMT on the 30th (Sunday).

    That's 2 PM here in Finland, and 7 AM on the West Coast of America; I think that's a good enough compromise. I do have Monday entirely off though (unexpected), so if there's any players from the Western parts of the US, I could agree to start a little later. I'm not sure of our other players, though. As to how long the game will take, I cannot say, but I suspect at least 5-7 hours. Regular mp games are over in a flash because they're all about early rushes and are almost always played on Online speed; despite this, they can still take up to 2 hours, so we may well be playing for even longer. We could always save the game, I suppose, but it'd be hard to fit everyone's schedules again to resume it. If the late game proves too tedious (trade route reassignments, blech :yuck:), and/or impossible to play (too short turn timer), we can simply call it a day and declare a 'winner' (if wanted). X hours of fun will have been had anyway, so, mission accomplished. :)

    Dear oh dear... Which part of this game *doesn't* have issues, I wonder? :dubious: Thing is, though, that afaik, you can't do this atm. Your timer is either dynamic, stays the same all-game-long, or is disabled; there is no option to set a custom amount of seconds. :sad: If it were possible, then it would indeed be the best solution and there would be no problems. Here's hoping for a quick patch... :rolleyes:

    In our test game, the game froze up on Uppercut's turn. Without a timer being set, we were stuck waiting indefinitely. Now granted, I'm not sure if a timer would've helped, either, but we had no freezes with it enabled. More tests would need to be done to get more data points, but I don't want to wait any longer to start the game (we've waited enough already! ;)). So, unfortunately, for this game I don't see any other option but to go with the dynamic timer.

    I think this is a fine rule; I'll add it to the list as I make the rules file. I'll post it for evaluation tomorrow, but there's not time for too many changes, as the game will be upon us in just a few short hours from that time. If we must deviate from the rules, as our experience dictates, it's no big deal ofc. The aim is to find the best possible rule-set through active play, so the rule-sheet is mainly a good starting point, with only a few absolutes baked in.

    I agree. Unless played with the 'default rules' (whatever they will shape into), each game should have its own thread here at CFC, where the rules can be negotiated before starting.

    I'm a bit confused, as you seem to be suggesting *more* restrictions here, not less. ;) If alliances are to be publicly announced, there can ofc be no secret alliances, which I think was the bone of contention between me and Magnive. In any case, for this game there will be no secret alliances; in future ones this rule may be changed, if all players agree to it, but imo it goes against the idea of this group (or at least has a grave danger of doing so), so I prefer to boil that kettle of fish at another time when the cooks are more experienced, so to speak. ;)

    With the new added 'pillaging clause', I don't think we need the restriction for number of war turns before you can claim the conquered city (or cities). You will simply announce your war goal, take that many cities, and then ask for those cities in a peace deal. If the other player refuses, you can apply pressure in the form of pillaging, killing his units, etc (anything but taking more cities), until he either concedes to peace or is doomed to failure because of total economic collapse. Granted that you could still abuse this system and refuse to cede the cities just to spite the attacking player; but at that point your effectively removing yourself from game; and anyway, we have to rely on people's good character and allow some air in the rules for them to breathe, so to speak. I think the best guide might be to role-play and think 'What would I do as the ruler of my country if this were real life? Would I let Paris burn or cede Strassbourg over to the Kaiser?'. What's best for your citizens is best for the country! :goodjob:

    EDIT: As for a restriction to the number of allies based on government (or era), it's seems like a good idea, but there are already enough rules to remember. In a future game we will try it for sure, but I think it's best to go without it this time. Most players would agree that smaller blocks of alliances are more fun and dynamic, so let's just trust things to evolve in that direction purely naturally.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  3. stiiknafuulia

    stiiknafuulia King

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    People..! we still need a HOST for game #2! :eek: I should've put a note about it in the op I guess... Let's just have everyone befriend everyone on Steam, so the host(s) can be anyone (in case of Stroganov or the other host going missing at the start of the game, there could be disaster, or at least a lot of wasted time without any 'fail-safe'; this way anyone can be a 'spare host' if the need arises).

    EDIT: Updated the op with this info, as well as the (tentative) starting time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  4. Denvar

    Denvar Chieftain

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    I'll have to back out of the first game. I've been swamped this week and Sunday won't work out that well for me. Hope to be available for a later game.
     
  5. stiiknafuulia

    stiiknafuulia King

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    Ok. Pity about that; I'll take you off the list.

    EDIT: Since Denvar has backed out, I changed my own Civ to Norway. I've tried Germany in sp, and while I only barely got the Hansa spam going, I could already see how op it'd be in the long run. I really like exploring the oceans, and trade with the far-off distant players on the other continent(s) could prove very lucrative... As well as raiding (as a Viking I can be excused, right?). :mischief:

    EDIT2: @TeraHammer: Since two players have canceled, I moved you to to game #1, to even out the numbers. There are now 7 players in each game. Imo, it might be a better number than 8, as the game will be a little less hectic. But if anyone still wants to join, they're welcome ofc. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  6. fickle

    fickle Chieftain

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    Changing the turn timer IS possible, just not while in-game. it would require saving the game exiting to menu, and restarting the game. When you load the saved game and jump back in the multiplayer lobby, you can click back to the game settings and adjust the turn timer, which when set to standard gives you the option to set in seconds.

    That said, it IS tedious, and would take time and slow game-play down a bit if we tried to implement something like that.

    I was giving times based purely on speculation as well, I haven't played with turn timers so I am not sure what would be good timers. I have played several games without turn timers, and haven't had them freeze up on me yet, so hopefully that is a less common issue, and if it DOES happen, every turn auto-saves should help mitigate loss in the case of a game freeze.
     
  7. TeraHammer

    TeraHammer Prince

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    Ok cheers, btw I can only play the 30th, no longer the 29th ;-)
     
  8. LzPrst

    LzPrst Chieftain

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    I could try hosting game 2.
     
  9. markoivezic

    markoivezic Chieftain

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    Like Denvar I sadly have to inform that I'm out for this first game too. Will watch for review of first game and results here on forum. LzPrst can jump in instead of me this weekend.
     
  10. RebelScum88

    RebelScum88 Chieftain

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    Sorry guys, I'm afraid I'm busy Sunday, I can't make it either. Hopefully I can make later ones.
     
  11. MeatThatTalks

    MeatThatTalks Chieftain

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    I can make 7am PST work, but if there's room to push it back a little, I'd welcome it. That's a bit earlier than I prefer to be up on Sundays. But, again, I can compromise.
     
  12. stiiknafuulia

    stiiknafuulia King

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    And our players are dropping like flies! :eek: No matter; this was to be expected. Rl can spring on us at the best of times with its sudden and inevitable nastiness. Thankfully we have enough players so that we'll get at least one game underway, no matter what. ;) I will update the rosters shortly; for now, here is the rule-sheet, as promised. (I may have forgotten a rule or two, so if you think something is missing, please don't hesitate to notify me.)

    @LzPrst: Excellent news! :) Be sure to invite everyone in the group as a friend (especially those from group #2).

    @Everyone: We can certainly push the game back a little bit. I propose a new time of 1 PM GMT (13:00). That's a little more lenient towards the US folks. I hope that everyone catches this alteration... It should go without saying that all players should monitor the game-thread in the hours before the game, but in my experience this is sadly often not the case. I'll update the op in any case, and whisper people on Steam in case they've forgot. As we're moving the game *forward*, this is thankfully much less of an issue.

    @fickle: That's... Literally one of the most absurd things that I've ever heard. :crazyeye::lol: Imo, it requires either Beavis & Butthead -level stupidity or outright malice to design the timer system as you describe, hiding a vital customization behind an obscure load-screen. I wouldn't trust the game not to freeze under such circumstances. We'll go with the dynamic timer for this first game; if it doesn't work out, we can always disable the timer or do the loading-shenanigans in all future games.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
  13. LzPrst

    LzPrst Chieftain

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    @stiiknafuulia You should edit/update the front page post on this thread, just to make sure no one sees that and is mistaken. How many players do we have for sure?
     
  14. stiiknafuulia

    stiiknafuulia King

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    I updated the rosters... 7 players for game #1, 6 for game #2. I'm sure I added LzPrst to the roster before, yet he wasn't on it... Anyway, the lists should be correct now. I also moved @Grizbee to game #1, to even out the numbers. [EDIT: Technically I guess that wasn't really necessary... Oh well, I prefer more players in my own game! :p]

    I'm a bit worried because some of our players haven't been heard from since their initial announcement of participation. I'm sure people will come out of the woodwork though as the game approaches (some people simply have nothing to say and are happy with any rules that others come up with).

    EDIT: I'm playing a test-game atm, and I'm finding that there's loads of room with the Low sea level, even with 8 players. As we may have only 5-6 people in each game, I think it's better to either increase the number of allowed conquests or raise the sea level back to Standard. I prefer the latter solution, simply because it's less hectic to manage a smaller amount of cities.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
  15. Yves-Laurent

    Yves-Laurent Chieftain

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    morning all :) I'm online now and playing. steam name is ylpb1 just in case someone wants to throw me a friend/invite on steam.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  16. MeatThatTalks

    MeatThatTalks Chieftain

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    Just a quick head's up that I'm likely not going to be able to make it to the game in 6 hours, as I've been busier today than expected and haven't gone to bed yet. Setting an early alarm, but, we'll see if I sleep right through it.

    The distance between PST and GMT may make my participation in this group kind of difficult, unfortunately. :undecide:
     
  17. LzPrst

    LzPrst Chieftain

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    Perhaps we could set the map size to small and sea level to low?
     
  18. LzPrst

    LzPrst Chieftain

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    Also, I am having some trouble friending the players in group 2 as their steam names and CFC names don't match up. Send me a PM here with your steam name so that I can add you, then I will also see how many of our signed up players are good to go :)
     
  19. stiiknafuulia

    stiiknafuulia King

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    Ok, just a heads-up to everyone that the game will start in 3 hours (not 6)! GMT 1 PM (13:00); it's easy to see by this clock.
    So, as MeatThatTalks will still be sleeping by then, I guess we'll have one less player again.
    The forum is working really slowly for me atm... Hopefully it won't go down. :shifty:

    @LzPrst: I can't seem to find the map sizes anywhere... I think it's best not to stray from Standard, as Small might be too small (even with low sea level).

    Here are the game settings that each host should use:
    • Turn timer: Dynamic turn timer (let's use it in this game, see how it works out)
    • Turn mode: Simultaneous turns (it will make war into a click-fest, but will be better than the alternative of huge waiting periods)
    • Starting era: Ancient, duh
    • Game speed: Quick
    • Map: Continents
    • Map size: Standard
    • (rest all Standard, apart from: )
    • World Age: New (more mountains can only be good, imo)
    • Start position: Balanced
    Also, the players should be set to Emperor level (imo). This setting affects the difficulty of the AI if a player leaves or disconnects and is replaced by an AI, so they shouldn't be total
    pushovers, but we don't want Deity-level unit spam either. I think Emperor is a good compromise.
     
  20. stiiknafuulia

    stiiknafuulia King

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    @LzPrst: Just invite everyone as a friend; there's no harm in it (for future games), and there's no need to do detective work. ;)

    EDIT: In retrospect, it was at least a medium-sized blunder to not ask everyone to state their Steam nick along with their other info. You may post yours now, people, as it may still help. Mine is Vesir85, fwiw.
     

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