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Immortal Arabia Photojournal (of an amateur)

Discussion in 'Playthroughs and Photojournals' started by amateurgamer88, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Hi everyone! I'm amateurgamer88. I have recently started immortal and my first two games have been horrible. My last game as Russia, as shown in my photojournal, has progressed a lot better. As the title suggests, I am going to play as Arabia. Do note that this is my first time playing this civ on VP so it should be interesting.

    I know I'm not a great player so I appreciate any advice as I want to learn more. I have many areas lacking so feel free to point them out to me. I like to improve more as I actually want to eventually play and win some deity matches. As a result, I'm doing these photojournals so people can see what I'm doing wrong and give me constructive criticism.

    An additional note is that, due to various reasons, I have to play this game windowed so, in later eras, you'll see the various things like gold, resources and etc overlapping. I apologize for that but it's the limitations I work with.

    Spoiler Game Settings :
    Immortal (7) Difficulty
    Marathon Speed
    Large Size, 10 civs, 20 city states
    Pangea
    Strategic Balance
    No events, ancient ruins, tech brokering and tech trading

    Unsure what patch this is. Not the beta patches that have distress but, instead, still uses crime. I have tried to get the beta patch and other mods installed but my game keep crashing. I know I'm doing something wrong but I just lack the expertise to figure it out.


    I have learned that continents make very interesting and, often, challenging matches. I don't feel like I'm ready for continent as the management of a sizable navy with a strong army seems beyond my abilities at the moment. Therefore, I'm sticking with Pangea for now.

    Spoiler Initial Thoughts on the Civilization :
    One Thousand and One Nights:
    Science, culture, tourism and Great Person points from historic events sounds very interesting. The historic event that comes to my mind the most is a great person born. This seems to suggest to me that tradition > artistry might not be a bad idea to take advantage of the UA. I admit that I don't go tradition very long so this can be quite the learning experience. We'll see what sort of stupid mistakes I'll make along the way.

    Bazaar:
    Compared to a market, Bazaar gives more gold in addition to faith and science. That makes this UB quite powerful. For whatever reason, this ability reminds me of Goddess of Springtime where you can get more faith from markets. I'm assuming that the extra faith is given to Bazaar so it'll be 5 :c5faith: per building. I don't know what pantheon I'll take until I see the map so it's a bit early. This UB comes fairly early and can give me a very good boost early on. I hear about tradition having gold problems early on so I hope this UB can help alleviate it somewhat. The extra trade range can increase the number of civs I can trade with since this is Pangea.

    Camel Archer:
    I have used heavy skirmishers so I can see myself using this unit. The splash damage is interesting but it's a rather odd situation. For splash to be effective for 1 hex, I need wide open space. As tradition, I don't expect lots of wars so the ones I experience should be defensive ones. If my cities have lots of wide open space, I'll struggle to defend my cities. I think how the map looks will heavily dictate the effectiveness of this unit, though supply cap might be an issue.


    Spoiler Starting Location :

    Let's see the starting location. I'll be doing my first update later today.
    20180914142355_1.jpg
    My initial thoughts are either settling on spot, move to the hill where my pathfinder is at or move over to settle on the cocoa. I'd love to settle on the gold to the left but it's a hill and a river prevents me from settling on the second turn. As for the other gold, I don't have enough information to decide if it'll be a good location. Not a great start in my opinion but I'll have to make it work then.
     
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  2. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Sorry for the delay! The first update is now here.

    Chapter 1: Exploration and Neighbors

    Spoiler I. Birth of Mecca :

    20180914143053_1.jpg
    While I preferred to settle on one of the gold resources, I decided that the hill is a better bet. I only spend one turn getting to it so the capital isn't delayed too much. The hill will provide a nice production boost I'm sure I'll need for my capital. I don't like very much the barbarian encampment to the north but I can't do much about it for now. Seeing the coast to the west definitely makes things interesting. I have to wonder how the terrain looks and hope that I'm at the one side of the map making defending much easier.


    Spoiler II. Meeting Babylon :

    20180914143226_1.jpg
    I found a Babylon pathfinder west of my capital. Apparently, there's more land northwest of Mecca and it's connected to a fairly large plot of territory. With Babylon, I expect the civ to be a tech leader so trade routes with them is a definite. However, I just hope they aren't too close to my territory or early wars might be inevitable. If I'm going tradition, I'd prefer to avoid wars as much as possible.


    Spoiler III. Meeting Netherlands :

    20180914143244_1.jpg
    Overall, I've had negative experience with the Netherlands. They have mostly gone statecraft and steal most, if not all, of the city states. They also start tradition so, if we aren't close neighbors, we can be friends. How much the friendship will benefit me remains to be seen. I am curious if the Netherlands are close to Babylon though since their pathfinders are very close to one another. If they are, then I can expect them to fight one another and leave me alone.


    Spoiler IV. Babylon Far Enough :

    20180914143342_1.jpg
    I'm glad Babylon is far enough. We can definitely maintain good relations unless Babylon literally settles towards me very aggressively. I don't expect to have more than 4 cities settled and they'll be surrounding my capital. While Babylon is far enough, I have two questions on my mind. Where are the Netherlands? And how does my eastern front look regarding neighbors? I haven't encountered anyone from there so I hope that means they are far enough.


    Spoiler V. The Game Hates Me! :

    20180914143728_1.jpg
    That natural wonder looks very tempting but it's just not ideal to take it. First, it's too far away from my capital seeing no GPI shared between the city and my capital. Secondly, the terrain is so flat I'd have no way of settling and defend it properly. If I was playing a progress or authority game, I might even consider it. For this game, it's not an option unfortunately. I have learned to not let greed get the better of me.


    Well, that's it for this first update. Still plenty of exploration to go and I'm having some barbarian issues until I can get my warriors out.
     
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  3. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Chieftain

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    It's your choice, but maybe you could try a game with Arabia on the newest patch? The newest patch changes Arabia.
     
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  4. SpankmyMetroid

    SpankmyMetroid Chieftain

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    If you take goddess of springtime (very powerful for Arabia as you mentioned and you have some cocoa by you, but it might not necessarily be a good idea) you'll need Mt. Sinai to be competitive for founding a religion. It's not that far from your capital either. It's hard to tell without the rest of the area revealed, but why not settle on that hill southwest of the NW? Desert can be decent defense against attackers as long as you build roads so your units can cycle around easily. I don't see why you need to share great person improvements in cities, especially in a tradition build where you'll stack national wonders in the capital so that their yields are optimized when worked there.
     
  5. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    I have sadly already played a fair bit and I hate just abandon it now. I'm curious about the changes but those will have to wait. :)

    I put some thought in picking a pantheon as you'll see in a future update and, while it might not be the strongest, it seems good enough. Of course, I'd happily take any advice for the future as I still have much to learn. As for Mt. Sinai, I would agree with the comment if Arabia didn't have their UB. The 2 :c5faith: from their bazaar is huge and I'll be prioritizing them for sure. Of course, my pantheon will also help a bit to secure me a religion.

    Desert can be a decent defense but there are two factors going through my mind at the time. First, the city is quite far away so I need to settle cities to ensure a proper land connection. Simply for a natural wonder, that might not be worth it, especially when there's a lot of desert and plains in this immediate area that hinders the city's growth. Secondly, I'm still trying to learn how to play tradition and want to see how sharing great person improvements benefit all the cities. The capital is the priority but it will, as you mentioned, stack wonders that gives it specialist slots. If I'm working specialist slots, then I'm not working the tiles. Why expand out more than I have to to have a larger front and potentially angering some civ into war due to territorial dispute sooner in the game?

    And in the event I do have units to cycle to the city getting Mt. Sinai, then what about my western front? I won't have huge military supply cap to work with so my troop count is limited. I can't afford to let my neighbors to the west invade me with ease. These are all thoughts going through my head. I could be wrong so feel free to correct me. I have been burned by expanding too greedily in the past with progress and lower difficulty. Immortal hasn't been forgiving so I don't want to push my luck, especially when I chose to go with tradition.
     
  6. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Chieftain

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    That's fine too then.

    Anyway, I like to pick Goddess of Beauty (the GP/Wonder synergy is nice with Arabia) and go for Stonehenge. Stonehenge is just a wonderful package of awesome as Arabia- Pantheon in Turn 20-30 despite going Monument first, +4 faith with GoB, +2 Culture/+1 Science ( due to +1 Culture/Science from Historical events), free Council, and an Engineer point. Going for GoB will be harder without Stonehenge but it can still be a consideration if you get a couple of other wonders.

    I would've preferred to settle in place: instant access to Cocoa, forests north for Production, instant chop for extra Production.

    That city doesn't look too far away. I prefer to settle cities far away at first, and then fill up the space nearby. So assuming that is one of the limits of your empire, you could absolutely settle that. I assume you're going for at least 4 cities-not all 4 cities need to share GPTI. I prefer to settle a GPTI sharing cities later on so they can work a manufactory to catch up-you only have 1 or maybe 2 manufactories early on anyway.

    Also....you're playing on Marathon speed but this isn't a warmonger game. Isn't that going to feel a little slow?
     
  7. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    I would settle that natural wonder, especially if you scout more and its a safe area. Sharing tiles with the capital can be an extremely good move, but you don't need all of your cities to do that. Just 1 or 2 will be enough.
     
  8. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Chieftain

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    I agree, Sinai is not that far.
     
  9. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Chapter 2: All These Natural Wonders!
    Spoiler I. Barbarian Infestation :

    20180914144100_1.jpg
    I'm not sure about other people but, for me, barbarians can be quite the problem for me in the early game. I usually start with monument or shrine first but my capital always seems to be attacked before I can finish building it. In addition, I sometimes have terrible luck and have gold looted which delays me from purchasing my first warrior to better defend the capital. Meanwhile, I don't like the placement of the gold too much. To secure the monopoly, I need to either get greedy and settle east of Panama City or settle two different cities south and east of my capital to just grab three copies.


    Spoiler II. Meeting Ottomans :

    20180914144236_1.jpg
    I have mixed feelings with the Ottomans. They tend to expand very aggressively in my games as they take progress and can snowball under the right conditions. If they are a close neighbor, then I'll have some problems as territorial disputes can happen far too easily. I don't know why but, as an inexperienced Tradition player, I just don't want a close neighbor unless I have really good choke points to work with.


    Spoiler III. Another Natural Wonder out of Reach! :

    20180914144355_1.jpg
    While the comments state that Sinai isn't that far far, I believe Gibraltar is definitely too far away. This would be extremely greedy and, given how hesitant I am with Sinai, this is certainly off the table. I wonder if, playing another civ with authority or progress, if I'll act any different. For now, I'll just be happy with the happiness given from discovering this natural wonder and just keep exploring.


    Spoiler IV. Delaying Science a Bit :

    20180914173033_1.jpg
    Normally, I like to get council right after a shrine. However, the fact that there's a barbarian encampment directly north and one somewhere northeast, I feel like I can't afford to delay another warrior. I purchased my first warrior but it just can't clear a camp on its own. Two warriors should suffice in removing the threats and fight any future barbarian attacks until I get bronze working. I just hope I won't fall behind science too much.


    Spoiler V. Tough Decision with City Settling! :

    20180914173046_1.jpg
    Now I'm curious which AI will benefit from all these nice natural wonders. They seem somewhat spaced out and even one can give AIs a rather big boost. I'm surprised I haven't found any neighbors too close which made me think about my cities. Should I settle close to the capital to delay the odds of me making enemies or settle cities like one for Sinai and hope the greed will pay off?


    Well, that's it for this update. Still plenty of exploration to go and I might settle my first city next chapter.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  10. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Goddess of Beauty was definitely one that I looked at. Once I get to my pantheon in-game, I'll explain my logic about why I picked another pantheon over this one. As for Stonehenge, I didn't go for Pottery directly and, even then, I question the production I have to secure it. As for other early wonders, I find myself to struggle to get any of them.

    I will keep that in mind. I'm still inexperienced with settling cities so it might take awhile for me to be certain of what I really want. As for the city for Sinai, I still don't like how far it is. Maybe I'm paranoid and maybe I'm just unsure about my ability to defend it. I felt like I should make use of those mountains and hilly terrain instead of get greedy for a natural wonder. In addition, I feel the tiles for the city grabbing Sinai aren't great either, at least they don't seem to enticing to me.

    As for the pace, I do realize that it can be slow but I assure you that there will be quite an exciting late game. I've played a lot (up to industrial now) so I'll spare you the readers of the slowness.

    Ah okay, I need more experience to know about that. As for the natural wonder, where exactly would you settle? I decided against it for this game but I like to see the reasoning from a veteran on what to take into account with these city placements. I will need to get better city placements for future games for sure.

    Sinai won't belong to Arabia but I think it worked out so far, though I'm really disliking certain AIs just snowballing late game. :)
     
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  11. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Chapter 3: All These Natural Wonders!
    Spoiler I. Finding Sweden :

    20180914173113_1.jpg
    Sweden is certainly far away enough that I doubt they'll pose any threat to me. At least, I hope not. I've had games where Sweden does expand steadily but I have yet to see an AI Sweden snowball out of control. Let's hope this won't be one of those games where I see if for the first time. Their UA does make them better geared for warfare than some other civs and I don't want to face them late game.


    Spoiler II. Another Venice... :

    20180914173227_1.jpg
    For those of you who have also read my Russia photojournal, I had a Venice there as well. AI Venice isn't the biggest threat and usually accomplish two things. They either annoy you by buying the city state you are allied with or they get swallowed up by another civ after building some wonders for them. Both scenarios aren't ideal for me, especially when I'm not going for a warmongering game.


    Spoiler III. This isn't Going to Be Good :

    20180914173233_1.jpg
    I've had bad experience with China as they tend to be a very dangerous threat in the games I've played so far and those were on lower difficulties. If allowed to expand and they take progress (not sure if they take anything else), China just snowballs a lot mid to late game. I need to see where they are located because a snowballing China can be a serious threat. If I'm going tradition, I don't think I have the tools to stop them either.


    Spoiler IV. War against Barbarians! :

    20180914173306_1.jpg
    I only have myself to blame for this position. I need my warrior alive because a loss now can be detrimental for the rest of the game. I cannot afford more production spent on another warrior and the barbarians will likely attack my cities and slow me down further. I need nine more turns to build another warrior so I need to buy some time. Withdrawing my warrior back to friendly territory is probably more ideal. I'm lucky to get this promotion at this time because I'll need the extra bit of health to keep my warrior alive.


    Spoiler V. The Warrior's Final Stand? :

    20180914173350_1.jpg
    Withdrawn to the forest, I hold my breath as I see what the brutes will do. The defensive bonus helps a lot in addition to that promotion but my warrior is outnumbered without too much healthy. This does make me wonder how bad things are for raging barbarians (or whatever that option is called) since the barbarians now can be a problem as a whole. I don't think I want to enable that since I assume it can help authority civs to snowball very quickly, especially civs like the Aztecs.


    Spoiler VI. What are the Brutes Thinking? :

    20180914173431_1.jpg
    The storm has passed and my warrior will survive. I do wonder now how differently AI barbarians are programmed since you'd never see the AI civ units do these sort of things. I guess I'm just fortunate they are dumber as a whole or we'd have some real problems with barbarians, especially for the human player who doesn't start off with warriors at the start to protect their capital.


    Spoiler VII. The Chinese are Here... :

    20180914173502_1.jpg
    With how things look initially, it's obvious that China has quite a bit of room to expand. They aren't close enough to Sweden to see conflict arising early on which is worrying. I'm luckily far enough away that early wars with China isn't likely. The future holds lots of uncertainty given that China likely will expand towards me unless they have lots of good land to their east.


    Spoiler VIII. Let's Go Tradition Nonetheless! :

    20180914173600_1.jpg
    Well, I do have some worries but I feel that Tradition just works so well for Arabia. I decide to go through with it and, if I lose, it will be a great learning experience. I'm least comfortable with tradition since it doesn't suit my playstyle as a whole. However, I should at least learn the strengths and weakness of these trees so I can be a better player as a whole.


    Spoiler IX. "Middle" of the Pack :

    20180914173823_1.jpg
    This is usually a good indication of what social policy trees the AI take. The Progress civs tend to have more techs as I learned from personal experience. That's a pretty big boost and it's understandable given how long it takes for progress civs to really take off. I'm not too worried about keeping up in techs as my empire will remain small and I always have trade routes to rely upon. We also shouldn't forget about the great people I'll be producing to help keep me in the game.


    Spoiler X. Time to Buy a Worker! :

    20180914174047_1.jpg
    Being able to save 30 turns by buying a worker seems like a no brainer for me. I need to build quite a few buildings and settlers so workers seem lower on the list. I have managed to take out a few barbarian encampments near my capital which gave me the gold I needed. For now, my capital is safe and I don't have to worry too much about hostile threat. I definitely need to expand soon!


    Well, that's it for this update. I have some worries but I went through with that tradition opener. We'll see in time if I'll regret things later! :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  12. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Chieftain

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    I think you could go for Wonders early on with this start (moreso if you settled in place, you'd have quicker access to better production tiles, like those 1/2 forests up north that would be great once you get the Tradition opener, I think you could have gotten Stonehenge), I really feel like Arabia can kick start itself nicely by going for wonders due to the historic events/GP points on Wonders (as well as the base benefits of wonders). Temple of Artemis looks like a nice pick here, which would lead itself nicely into Hanging Gardens. Be warned, though, if you do go for Hanging Gardens, you need to go for Maths quickly, preferably you get Maths right as you get your 4th policy.

    What exactly is your tech order? I assume you're researching Trapping to beeline Trade for the Bazaars? You can certainly do that I don't think it's worth detouring into Wheel for Council, it costs you more Science than it will give. If you want the Wheel I think it's better to lead up into Military Theory in that case.

    You have lots of Plains/Grasslands on this start so I probably would have researched Animal Husbandry quickly and then lead up to Military Theory for ToA (and you might want a few Horsemen if you feel threatened). I'd have went Pottery (go for Stonehenge)--->Animal Husbandry--->Wheel--->Military Theory (go for ToA)--->Trade. I build maybe 2 Settlers in between Stonehenge/ToA and try to settle on or near Horses (like I think the Mt. Sinai location would have had a couple of Horses/Cattle).
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
  13. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    I'm not used to racing for early wonders so this might be an issue as I'm not taking advantage of my UA early on. I guess I play a bit too conservative and aim for a more safer route by grabbing what I need. For tech, I am going for Trade so I can get the Bazaars. You are right about the council as I realized later that Bazaars give more science than council along with other good benefits. In hindsight, I'd have went pottery (to attempt Stonehenge) and then go towards Trade to get Bazaars. I feel inexperience is a big factor here and will know for next time.

    I don't think I needed Military Theory until later since I have no close neighbors and warriors are enough to defend me against barbarians for now. I guess I'm just so used to starting with wheel that I usually just default on it. I really need to fix that for sure. If anything, I should've went for mining to connect the gold sooner. These are things I'm realizing after playing and will have to keep note of them in the future. I apologize for being so bad.

    As for ToA, I feel that is really greedy in this scenario. I want to get bazaar as soon as possible since the faith, science and gold are all very powerful this early on. Getting to Trade means I won't be getting Military Theory anytime soon. I also don't think delaying the connection of gold is a good idea. After all, they can fetch me a good income if I get more than one copy and trade with the AIs. Therefore, mining is a high priority tech which might see me wanting spearmen to defend myself since horsemen will take awhile. As for Animal Husbandry, I just don't know when it's ideal to research it here. It's important for determining where to settle cities but my settlers are delayed if I go for Stonehenge. I appreciate all of these tips as I have much to learn. Just playing and looking back had me rethink a lot of things for sure.

    Thanks once again! :)
     
  14. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Chapter 4: Intel on Neighbors!
    Spoiler I. Meeting Greece! :

    20180914174418_1.jpg
    Remember Greece from my Russian Photojournal? Well, they are back and, given how long it took for us to make contact, I'm fortunate they aren't a neighbor of mine, at least not a close one. I still have yet to find Greece's exact location so we'll see. I have seen AI losing their pathfinders early on so it's possible the Greeks are relatively close but they needed time to get their other pathfinder coming in my direction.


    Spoiler II. Wish I Had this Starting Location! :

    20180914174501_1.jpg
    I found the Ottomans and I'm so jealous. From what I know so far as seen on the minimap, they have mountain ranges that make defending relatively easy. If I had this location with my current tradition path, I'll settle the key chokepoint and just need some decent defenses to turtle up. Sometimes, you just don't get what you want but I guess that's the challenge of the game. Of course, it didn't escape me that they are relatively far from China too.


    Spoiler III. China Going for Writing? :

    20180914174752_1.jpg
    China is definitely making solid use of their tech lead due to taking progress. Now, they entered classical era first and I assume they took writing. If they get the great library, their lead is going to be greater. I guess I need to get a trade route with them soon so I can catch up a bit through that route. With them uncontested mostly, I do fear the future of China snowballing out of control.


    Spoiler IV. A Bit More Income! :

    20180914174814_1.jpg
    I don't know about other people but I generally accept these. It's extra income and I can always get their Accept Embassy later through some trade. I also know their capital location so it's useless not accepting. I definitely have to make use of my gold efficiently as I've discovered that micromanaging as Tradition is so important. Now I wonder if I'll ever master this since micromanagement is certainly my biggest weak point in any game.


    Spoiler V. Here's Venice! :

    20180914174901_1.jpg
    Venice is a canal city which's a rather interesting thing to note, especially when they will rely more heavily on naval units. I fear they will be conquered by Sweden but I do have doubts. Sweden, as I mentioned before, don't excel much in my games. I wish Venice was closer like where Babylon is at since they will further delay me sharing borders with other civs. At least they are far enough away that I won't worry about Venice stealing any of my city state allies anytime soon.


    Spoiler VI. Let's Take Justice :

    20180914175244_1.jpg
    I know that Sovereignty will give me my pantheon sooner but I feel like the production early on matters more. I'm not racing for a religion just yet but a number of things are needed to be completed like settlers. I want to get my satellite cities up as soon as possible so I can focus on developing my capital. It feels so odd to be relying so heavily on one single city to get ahead of other civs.


    Spoiler VII. The Wonder Race has Begun! :

    20180914175410_1.jpg
    The Stonehenge is built and the Netherlands got it. I don't know how I feel about it since I never planned on going after it in the first place. I don't like early wonders but, seeing how tradition goes, I might have to change that outlook. Maybe ancient era wonders are big gambles for Authority and Progress but Tradition can beeline for them and benefit from them far more. I will keep this in mind for future games.


    Spoiler VIII. Glad I'm not Tech Leader :

    20180914175736_1.jpg
    We meet England and this makes me glad I'm not the tech leader. It's so annoying that they have a spy so early on that not only steal techs but also disrupt production and other stuff. They won't be targeting Mecca with spies so I'm safe for now. At this point, I believe I have met all but one civ. Sadly, I'm dead last which seems normal on this difficulty. I wonder who the last civ is.


    Spoiler IX. Birth of Medina :

    20180914180009_1.jpg
    After some pondering, I decide to take advantage of the mountain range and forget about the natural wonders. If I went progress, I might consider them. However, this isn't quite the case and I'll just take up more defensive positions. Medina is going to be a nightmare to attack given the nearby terrain and that's how I like it. It's also close enough to share some Great People Improvements. I'm definitely being cautious here but that's just my playstyle.


    Spoiler X. Early Wars? :

    20180914180040_1.jpg
    The Netherlands are rather close to Babylon. I expect some early wars between the two of them and I'm certainly fine with that. Though, I don't know how I'll feel about a rising power to the west of me. Ideal case is the two civs have stalemates but that's a bit out of my control. The Babylons do have an edge early on with their UU but they don't seem like a very warlike civ from my games so far.


    Well, that's it for this update! We see more of this map and still have one more civ to discover. :)
     
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  15. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Chapter 5: Expanding Quickly!
    Spoiler I. Getting a Pantheon! :

    20180914183231_1.jpg
    For the Pantheon, I definitely had a tough choice between Goddess of Beauty and Goddess of Fertility. Goddess of Beauty seems to help with GP generation (of GA and GE of course) which works with Arabian UA. However, I haven't been focusing on early wonders so faith output looks bleak. I don't know how I feel about not getting a religion when I need all the edge I can get. Meanwhile, Goddess of Fertility promotes growth which provides me with more specialists in the capital. Extra food and faith from shrines seems quite powerful this early on and, if necessary, I can also get wells to guarantee a religion too.


    Spoiler II. Birth of Damascus :

    20180914183739_1.jpg
    I have settled my third city in a relatively defensive location as well. This city isn't as well defended as Medina but it will suffice for what I need. So far, all three cities are settled on hills so their production isn't too bad. I do know that, by settling here, I invite the AI to settle fairly close to me like the area southeast of Medina where there are flood plains and gold luxuries. However, I just don't like covering such a wide territory and stretching my forces thin.


    Spoiler III. Maybe Should've Went Progress? :

    20180914184003_1.jpg
    With all these natural wonders relatively close to my capital, I wonder if the game was trying to tell me to go progress. It's too late to do that now but I do find it quite funny. Still, Babylon should enjoy this unless the Netherlands decide to settle a very aggressive city. I just hope they will be bitter enemies and just leave me out of their conflicts. I have enough to worry about, like trying to win the game.


    Spoiler IV. Ottomans Gearing for War? :

    20180914184948_1.jpg
    The Ottomans got themselves Statue of Zeus. I wonder if they will use it to their best abilities or if it will be wasted by the AI. They are still relatively far from everyone so I don't expect early wars from them. What surprises me is that Sweden still hasn't expanded yet. This is a problem due to the fact that this could potentially lead to more land gobbled up by China. Of course, I mustn't forget that, if the Ottomans become the dominant power in the east, they can snowball as well since they went progress too.


    Spoiler V. Birth of Baghdad :

    20180914185150_1.jpg
    The first Arabian city not settled on a hill. This makes this city more vulnerable but I definitely need it. The last thing I want is the AI settling a city with a direct border with my capital. That is not what I want, especially when my capital isn't too well defended at this point. In addition, I needed Baghdad since it's vital to me securing the Gold monopoly. Like I said in an earlier update, I feel the Gold resources are too spread out and not in my favor.


    Spoiler VI. China Spamming Wonders? :

    20180914185212_1.jpg
    China got herself the Pyramids which means that we expect another Chinese city very soon. Given the lead that China has in techs and policies, I'm not too surprised. I also managed to understand the UA of China so, the larger they get early on, the more powerful they become. This is terrifying since their UA gives them strong early games while progress helps them in late game. Talk about a civ that has relatively few weaknesses.


    Spoiler VII. Time to Rake in the Gold :

    20180914185444_1.jpg
    As I connect more gold, I'll be able to get more deals like this. The benefit of being somewhat isolated is that I don't make enemies. No enemies means lots of declaration of friendships (only 3 at the time of this screenshot) and I should get more. I need more gold to kickstart everything because that's something Tradition seems to struggle with. I hope that, by trading often, I can make up for the deficit early on.


    Spoiler VIII. Making a Push for Religion! :

    20180914185950_1.jpg
    By taking Sovereignty, I'm making a major push for a religion. Religion can play a huge role since there are a few that really help Tradition. Of course, this is also dependent on when I find a religion relative to other civs. Ideally, I get my religion first and that'll be that. I have been delaying my faith generation as I was in favor of more production with Justice for awhile so my push might guarantee me a religion but certainly not as the first civ to do so.


    Spoiler IX. Birth of Najran :

    20180914190614_1.jpg
    My fifth and final city is born and, in hindsight, I wonder about my judgement. Baghdad is already coastal which is already quite risky. I didn't need another coastal city that effectively has to fend for itself. If I get to do it again, I'd move it below the wheat so it can share tiles with Mecca easier while not being as vulnerable. Still, I already settled it and must live with whatever consequences it might come with.


    Spoiler X. Spamming Bazaars :

    20180914190751_1.jpg
    UB are known to be powerful and bazaars are no exception. I have no reason to not spam them in all the cities that aren't building monuments. These buildings help my science, gold and faith early on. With three of them built, I'd get a 50% increase in my current faith output. I also realized afterwards that, while costing twice the production as council, they give twice the amount of science so I should build them in my newer cities before councils. So far, it's been a rather peaceful game for sure.


    Well, that's it for this update! We explored what I could and that last civ might remain a mystery until I get open borders. :)
     
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  16. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Chieftain

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    The bottom part of the map (southeast of Medina) will be a powerful city, you should've settled that first, 2 golds, a horse and some floodplains.
    Sinai is still waiting to be settled by "you". :crazyeye:
     
  17. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Chieftain

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    You do know that he's already played this game up to Industrial, right?

    I would've settled Sinai but I don't think it's a big deal, the Sinai city is okay but not all that powerful otherwise. I would've settled it on the grassland hill.

    That city southeast of Medina would also indeed be a powerful city that I would've settled. It doesn't look too hard to defend, and would give extra Horses, which would be nice to build Agribusinesses and upgrade Camel Archers. As well as that Gold.

    What are the tech/policy/tourism costs on Large? I only play on Standard so I'm a bit of a noob in that respect. Also how does TR distance scale?

    I make going for Hanging Gardens a priority on many Tradition games, I try to get it pre-T75 (so pre T225 on Marathon).

    I do like how much foresight you put into your decision-making, and your better safe-than-sorry attitude, though, it's a great trait to have when playing Civ :) Just remember that playing Tradition is a bit different to playing Progress, you do need to go aggressively after a few key wonders, and defense is different.

    Why not settle Baghdad on the Gold to connect it instantly? You'd get the Horses/the Marble in range as well. The extra coastal exposure could come back to bite with the Netherlands but if that's your only coastal city you should be able to hold it with Camel Archers.

    I would not have settled Najran, not because of any danger (it looks perfectly safe to me, up in its own world) but because it's just a crappy city. If you want that Gold in range of it just settle Damascus one tile to the north-east.

    That makes 6 cities total. If there was a city I would cut out I would not have settled Baghdad and would've settled Medina on the coastal Gold hill. I don't know how bad Culture/Science/Tourism penalties are on large, though.

    I go Monument first in Cities that need to expand their borders (generally I don't buy tiles early on, an exception would be Sinai here), Bazaar first in other cities, invest in every Monument/Bazaar you can. I often save up a little bit of early gold and invest in my first secondary. Investing in Bazaars feels great because it pays you back in the gold given and speeds up other investments.

    By the way, for some shameless self-promotion, I also posted a photojournal for Arabia a while back, up to the Industrial Era (I did play it to the Atomic, technically, but then I lost my computer and since am on a different one...) It's nice to see different choices for the same civ.

    Here's the link, if you want to check it out: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/deity-arabia-photojournal.635126/ It goes up to the mid-Industrial, so unless you've played past that point, I would hold on checking it out. But I keep trying to draw parallels between my game and yours and I would love to hear your opinion on my gameplan vs. yours. Feel free to criticize me :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  18. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Chieftain

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    No. :crazyeye:
    Sorry.

    Edit: Yeah, I agree, Najran is not a good city.
     
  19. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Well, they might be calling for me but I'll ignore them. :p

    For the various costs, I'm afraid I don't know. I don't even know where to look and, since I play on marathon, I'm sure the numbers are scaled twice to the map size and pace. I wish I knew more about these numbers but number crunching isn't my strong suit. I do recall that the costs increase by 7% ish per city so it can add up quickly. xD

    As for the Hanging Gardens, I won't say much since it'll spoil too much. Though I wonder if it scales like that as it seems to take me awhile to even get the tech, let alone get it completed.

    I agree that I have much to learn with Tradition. After Arabia, I have Austria and a few other candidates to practice with. Hopefully, we'll see improvements by then. xD

    I considered settling Baghdad on the gold but it seems so far away. I don't like having a large distance and allowing the AI to settle in a way where they can isolate my city. As for Najran, I settled it there because I don't want AI to settle in that area. My borders will grow steadily but I doubt I can completely block it off to prevent AI from settling bad cities. I agree it's not a great city but it will help me by limiting my civ to only two fronts.

    For Bazaars, I do invest in them when I can. I just need to get the funds to do so and it's not exactly quick. I'll take a look at it when I get the chance and will give you some thoughts. I'm still learning so there'll be some valuable lessons for me to take from your gameplay. :)

    You don't have to apologize since I don't mind getting feedback on what I could've done different. I want criticism so I can lessen my mistakes in the future. xD
     
  20. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Chapter 6: Building Up Steadily
    Spoiler I. Babylon a Wonder Competition? :

    20180914190834_1.jpg
    I'm curious if Babylon might become a competitor for wonders. I expect them to get technology quickly with their UA so they should get access once they meet the policy requirements. China already has a pretty big lead so I expect to have at least two main competition this game. Ancient era wonders are certainly out of reach but I do want to try to get a few Classical Era wonders to make up for not attempting any wonders up to this point.


    Spoiler II. War is Inevitable! :

    20180914190842_1.jpg
    Remember when I said that the Netherlands and Babylon are going to be at each other's throats? Well, they are doing me a huge favor with their city locations. They should be at constant war and, if stalemates happen, then I'd have two weakened neighbors and I cannot complain about that. Let's hope they keep each other busy and just leave me alone so I can get ahead.


    Spoiler III. Need More Gold :

    20180914191105_1.jpg
    One habit I need to get is to shop around my luxury to see the best deal. Laziness tend to get the better of me most of the time as I usually go with the first offer that comes along. Luckily, I do have a number of copies to be connected so this isn't detrimental. I will eventually be trading with most civs and get a healthy boost to my income. For those wondering, William only has 6 gold/turn income so he isn't willing to pay 5.


    Spoiler IV. First Trade Route :

    20180914192204_1.jpg
    I don't know if the Bazaar made a difference but it very much could've. The Arabian UB gives a 50% increase to trade range which certainly gives me more options. The fact that I can trade with China so early is great. 5 science and 2 culture are significant considering what I get at the moment. Given that I expect China to keep getting ahead with wonders and their UA, I see these trade routes to benefit me more over time.


    Spoiler V. Can't Be Too Greedy! :

    20180914192522_1.jpg
    China pays less for the gold but that's expected as the Netherlands benefit more from their imported luxuries. However, this is a lump sum that is more useful now and I do plan on using it effectively. I am focusing on investing in my buildings to get them completed sooner. My capital's production is fine so it's my satellite cities that need a bit more help to get their infrastructure completed.


    Spoiler VI. China's Lead Growing :

    20180914193409_1.jpg
    Seeing China getting to Classical Age and Writing first was a good indication they would get the Great Library. This is a pretty big lead for China and, as seen in the minimap, China is also growing very rapidly. I hope they will anger their neighbors soon because, if they keep their current momentum going, I doubt any civ can bring China down. Meanwhile, my trade route gets me more science and I can't complain.


    Spoiler VII. I Called It! :

    20180914193441_1.jpg
    This war was bound to happen and it couldn't make me happier. Now, I just hope the two civs will make little progress. Babylon doesn't have their UU so I don't expect either civ to have an edge as of now. As both civ went tradition, I don't expect them to field too many troops. I'll just keep focusing on my infrastructure but, at this time, I realize that I have to invest something into my military or I'd be next to be declared war on.


    Spoiler VIII. Grabbing Ceremony! :

    20180914193749_1.jpg
    A bit of a science boost might be what I need. While the trade route with China is nice, I need more science myself so I can eventually surpass the science leader at the moment. I'm glad I don't have to make a decision with this policy but the next policy will be interesting as I need to figure out what I want to prioritize. I have 75 turns until next policy so I don't have to think about it for now.


    Spoiler IX. Capital on Iron :

    20180914194416_1.jpg
    I actually don't know if settling on the iron unknowingly was a good thing. I know iron on hill can give some good yields once improved but I do need tiles for great people improvements as well. At the very least, no one can pillage this source so it's a good thing. I can get myself some swordsmen if I wanted but, being greedy, I decide that I can delay my military production further.


    Spoiler X. Best City State Quest! :

    20180914194607_1.jpg
    Out of all the quests, I find the discover a civ for a city state as the best. That's quite a bit of science and it's relatively easy to achieve once you get writing. I can use any boost to my science as I need to get to classical age soon. I believe it's possible to limit exploration so more city states can give this quest and gain a ton of science. Though, I don't like exploiting more than I already can since AI certainly doesn't do it.


    Well, that's it for this update! We have peaceful developments at home but for how long? :)
     
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