Immortal Babylon Photojournal (VP 9-6 w/ 4UC, EE, Expanded Wonders, and a bunch of other mods)

[KaoticKanine]

Greetings! I've been playing VP for a good while and have been wanting to share my games with others, since crazy/amusing things always happen, so I'm gonna do a Photojournal to that end Admittedly, I haven't won any VP games yet, mainly from ragequitting ^_^; But I will certainly play this game to the very end, win or lose, since this time I'll have an audience. So, for my first photojournal, I'm gonna play as Babylon; a civilization that has always interested me, both in this game and in real life. Helps that Babylon in this game has a fairly simple and defensive playstyle, the defensive in particular I'm going to need as this is my first real foray into Immortal difficulty. Probably should play a few Immortal games to get the hang of it first, but I can't wait to do a photojournal. At least you guys can have fun laughing at my inevitable fumbles

Though, as you can make out from the title, I'm doing this game, and any other future photojournal games, with a lot of mods I wish I could say that most of them are merely cosmetic, but that's only really the case with the "R.E.D. Modpack", "Ideology Names", and "Historical Religions". The rest do have an impact on the actual game, in major ways (3rd&4thUCs for VP, Enlightenment Era for VP, Expanded Wonders for VP, JFD's ExCE Resources for VP, Global Warming, and World Congress Reform) and minor ways (Reforestation, and Renewable Energy). I heavily apologize if this is very unprofessional for photojournaling and a big turn off for any of you. But I can't help myself; I love all these mods and feel they add to the overall experience, if mainly in a thematic sense (why should a single Civ be limited to just one UU and one UB/UI when a given civilization has had a great many unique aspects to themselves, and Global Warming is a feature that should've been in the base game). I play primarily to have fun and these mods are certainly fun to me. I also want to give these mods some exposure, so there you go XD

Anywho, with all that out of the way, let's get started!

The Mods

Spoiler :

-More Unique Components for VP (Source): Adds a 3rd and 4th Unique Component to all Civs in the game. All Civs get an addition UU and either another UB, a UI, or a UW (Unique Wonder). Playing this because it adds more to each Civ, and in some cases gives them an alternative playstyle from the norm (Tradition Celtic is very viable due to having an alternate GM Improvement that grants Faith, which motivates generating more GMs).

-Enlightenment Era for VP (Source): Adds a whole new Era to the game, starting after the Renaissance but before Industrial, and with it some new units, buildings, and wonders. Playing this for history factor and changes up the game in an interesting way

-VP Wonders Expanded (Source): Adds in new Wonders to Vox Populi, including for Policy Finishers (though you can only choose either wonder for finished policies, can't build both). Also gives all Wonders specific requirements for construction (ex. Temple of Artemis requires a source of Frsh Water). Playing this to add more to the game, and I feel it helps make Wonders more engaging

-JFD's ExCE Resources for Vox Populi (Source): Adds more Luxury and Bonus Resources to the game. Ex. Lakes can hold Lotuses, which can't be improved but adds Fath to the Lake Tile and interacts with the Aqueduct to give Culture and extra Faith. Playing this to add more to the map

-Reformation of the World Congress (Source): Modifies the World Congress to improve the diplomatic aspect of the game, and adds in new proposals. Playing this because it really does improve some aspects of the World Congress (your cities populations actually matter for voting, and you can make a proposal to choose a new host). Having more proposals to choose from is also quite nice

-Improved City View (Source): Modifies the viewing of Cities to basically "trim the fat" and make them slimmer and nicer to look at. Technically affects gameplay in regards to handling Specialists, but mostly cosmetic. Using this because, well, reason is in the mod's name lol

-Global Warming (Source): Causes climate-based events to occur when any Civ enters the Industrial Age; desertification can occur, snow and ice melt, coastal tiles may lose yields from warming seas, you get the gist. Playing this because I'm an environmentalist *Le gasp* Seriously though, climate change is real lol And I want an in-game motivation to play green. At least once it becomes relevant

-Renewable Energy (Source): Changes up the Solar Plant so it can be built on any tiles except Snow and Tundra, requires Aluminum to build, and is less powerful than Nuclear Plants, and also adds in a new building in the Wind Farm. Using this for realism (Solar Plants may perform better in deserts, but they can be used perfectly well in forests and jungles) and another way to play green in this game lol

-Reforestation (Source): Allows Workers to grow Forests upon discovering Fertilizer. Using this for realism, and again, I like to play green

-Historical Religions (Source): Adds 51 new Religion Icons and changes up the preferences for specific Civs if a given Religion is accurate to them (Celts can actually practice Druidism this time rather than Catholicism, and Ethiopia selects Oriental Orthodoxy instead of Eastern Orthodoxy). Purely cosmetic, doesn't affect beliefs or anything. Using this for accuracy (sadly, Judaism still goes unpreferred, but at least isn't alone)

-R.E.D. Modpack (Source): Modifies Unit models so they're accurate to the played Civ (African Civs get Warriors with black skin and traditional African attire) and shrinks down the models. Purely cosmetic, doesn't affect gameplay at all. Using this because, as you can guess by now, I'm all about accuracy

-Ideology Names (Source): Changes the names of the three Ideologies to match those of their real-world counterpart. Freedom becomes Liberalism, Order becomes Communism, and Autocracy becomes Fascism. Purely cosmetic, doesn't affect the Ideologies themselves. Using this because I echo the mod maker's annoyance in how the Ideologies go by alternate names instead of calling them what they actually are (especially since the Civpedia actually acknowledges the Ideologies can be attributed to Liberalism, Communism, and Fascism)

The Settings

Spoiler :

2

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

• Immortal
• 8 Civs, 16 City-States
• Continents
• Standard/Normal Map Settings (4 Billion World Age, Normal Sea Level, etc)
• Manually selected 5 of the AI, choosing the Civs that are historically significant to Babylon (Assyria, Persia, Greece, and Arabia) and has a similar theme/playstyle to Babylon (the Maya, since they get free GPs after researching a certain tech and are Science-oriented). Left the last two random as I couldn’t see any other Civs fitting either criteria (in hindsight, Korea would've worked, but I didn't consider since they're about Specialists in general whereas Babylon only focuses on Scientists). This is something I’ll do with every Civ I play
• Strategic Resources
• Events Enabled (Necessary for most of the mods to work. Bad Events disabled though, only because they’re more annoying than genuinely fun. I’ll be dealing with three warmongers with very powerful early game UUs anyway)
• No Ancient Ruins (Doesn't really make sense, since logically we're the first of all human civilizations, so where are these ruins with potentially lost technology coming from? Besides, Recon should be for finding spots for new cities, not nabbing ruins that can potentially get them killed)
• No Tech Trading/Brokering

The Extra Unique Components

Spoiler :

UM - Sabum Kibitum (replaces Spearman):
Available at Bronze Working
70 Production Cost
12 CS
2 Movement
"Legacy" (+10% Defense Bonus vs Range Attacks. +8% CS for every 2 levels gained until level 10, then additional +10% CS on level 12 and 25% CS on level 15)
"Quick Study"
"Anti-Mounted"

UW - E-temenanki (replaces National Monument):
available at Mathematics
Can only be built in the Capital
+3 Culture, +3 Food, +2 Faith
+2 Food to all Shrines and +1 Science to all Monuments
+30% Great Person Points
1 Great Work of Writing Slots
15% of current Science and Food production as an instant boost in the City Etemenanki is built whenever you invest in a building anywhere in empire
15 Culture on Citizen Birth, scaling with era.
50 Golden Age Points on Policy Unlock
Production cost scales with number of Cities

The Strategy

Spoiler :

Since this is Babylon we're talking about, with their boost to Great Scientists, Science Victory is the main thing to pursue. To that end, it's in my best interest to build tall and focus on Scientist Specialists to churn out as many Great Scientists as possible. Libraries, Universities, and any other Scientist buildings are essential. Getting a Religion and gearing it towards Science is also super beneficial, if not important. And we can't forget Military City-States, which grant bonus Science to allies.

The Game (Turns 0 to 53)

Turn 0:

3

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-Settlers start out on a River Coastal Desert Hill next to two sources of Lapis Lazuli, a source of Gems, six Flood Plains. The Desert Tiles are a bit of a drag, but this Starting Location is exceptionally ideal otherwise and I settle my Capital right then and there.

-I move my Pathfinder to the west to check for potential city locations and neighbors.

-Began construction on Shrines first in the hopes of getting a Religion, which will help with a Science Victory if I can nab the relevant beliefs.

-Decided to research Mining first to see Stone resources, necessary for completing early game Wonders faster, and so I can immediately go Bronze Working to get my Spearman UU, as well as move onto Construction for the Walls of Babylon, if I get one of three warmonger Civs as neighbors.

Turn 3:

4

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-Come across a solid location for my next city, which can form a ‘bridge’ for my Naval Units and isn’t too far away from the Capital.

-First encounter with an AI, which as luck would have it, is one of the Civs I didn’t deliberately select: England. Though I’m relieved one of my neighbors isn’t one of the three known warmongers, soon enough I’ll be dealing with a spy, some serious forward-settling, and “Would you be interested in a trade agreement with England?”

Turn 10:

6

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-Mining is completed and I go to research Pottery next in order to get Settlers, hoping to nab that city spot before England could, especially since that location turns out to have access to three Lapis Lazuli and a thing of Stone.

-I begin to move my Pathfinder to East of my Capital, feeling that I’ve explored enough of the West, mainly because of the Tundra Tiles up there indicating that I’m at the top of the whole map.

Turn 13:

-Just as expected, a spy starts stealing my science. I go over to Elizabeth and tell her to knock that off. She seemingly concedes and I only hope she’s encountered another AI at this point so she has another target to harass. In hindsight, probably wasn’t a good idea as now I have a negative diplomacy with England.

Turn 15:

-Turns out my demand to cease spying fell on deaf ears, as a spy robs my treasury.

Turn 16:

-Turns out that on the other side of the Hills to my right is more coast! So I now move my Pathfinder down South to check on potential city locations and see what other neighbors I have.

Turn 18:

7

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-And now I come across Alexander the Great, which most likely means he’s my second neighbor. Greeeaaaaat... As if to rub more salt in the fresh wound, a Barbarian starts attacking my Pathfinder

Turn 19:

-Pottery gets completed and I immediately start researching Animal Husbandry so I can move onto Construction for Walls if need be, Horses are very useful for production, food, and Horsemen are a delight.

-Queue up a Warrior and Settler in production in preparation to nab that city spot before England could.

Turn 23:

8

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-Found England’s capital, which fills me with relief as that means Alexander will target her first rather than me. Unfortunately, I also come across a Barbarian camp. Here’s hoping my Pathfinder survives this encounter.

-Oh, I also come across Hong Kong. Didn’t pay attention to what they gave me, but it seemed my friendship with the CS was simply increased by 2, since I’d be the third Civ they meet.

Turn 26:

9

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-I unlock my first Policy, to which I go for Tradition, since that is the definitive branch for Tall play. Progress may reward Science, but going Wide makes Science more expensive, and I wouldn't want to push my luck with a ton of warmongers that would bathe the hallways in my blood if I settle like crazy. Besides, it makes thematic sense, as Babylon wasn’t so much an empire as a very impressive and powerful City-State, and making impressive capitals is what Tradition is all about.

Turn 27:

10

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-Found Greece! Right below England, which confirms to me that Elizabeth will be taking the brunt of Alexander’s warfare and I don’t have to focus too much on military. That Settler of his is worrisome though…

Turn 28:

11

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-Animal Husbandry finishes, revealing 4 Horses right next to me, and I queue research for The Wheel and Military Theory. Probably should go for Construction or Bronze Working, but The Wheel contains the Karnak Wonder (one of the Expanded Wonders), which is a must-have for me since it grants a bonus to Flood Plains. As for Military Theory, Horsemen will be a serious boon for defending against the inevitable war with England and Greece, as well as dealing with troublesome Barbarians. Temple of Artemis would also lucrative if I can manage to nab it.

Turn 36:

-Another Policy unlocked, chose Justice for Engineer slot. 50% City CS is also very important should enemy units find their way to the Capital.

Turn 37:

12

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-Settlers are finally finished and I get to building the Karnak. Unfortunately, those Hand-Axe Barbarians threaten to delay my settling since they are a pain to deal with, but at least Alexander’s Pathfinder is taking the aggro.

-On the massive plus side, I am able to take a Pantheon. Sadly, the one that benefits Flood Plains got taken (or was removed in this patch and I didn’t notice), so I go for Spirit of the Desert. Probably should have gone for Council of Elders, but we’ll see if I come to regret Spirit of the Desert or not…

Turn 38:

13

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-A BARBARIAN CAMP RIGHT UNDERNEATH MY PLANNED CITY ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! *Deep inhale, then exhale* Okay, this is fine. Just have to take great care in keeping my Settler on top of my Warrior, and garrison the Warrior on the resulting city so those Barbarians don't start looting it.

Turn 42:

-Invested in the Karnak to guarantee my construction of it and queue up another Warrior and Settler to make a city on that River Forest Hill Coastal below my Capital, which would grant me Spices and Pearls. Just gotta hope those Barbarians will prevent England from taking it first…

-Discovered a Natural Wonder: Cerro de Potosi. Not really relevant to me, since it’s very far from me and Sparta will grab it in just a few. Though it does mean that now Greece is going to have an easier time funding an army, so now I must prepare construction on Walls and Units ASAP.

Turn 43:

14

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-Akkad is successfully founded on the intended spot and the Karnak is completed, granting me hammers and Faith on the Flood Plains, and that Wheat becomes even more beneficial.

Turn 50:

-Military Theory finishes and I instantly queue up Bronze Working and Construction, in that order, to be prepared for an upcoming war with England, as I see she went Authority.

-Second Settler is completed and I direct them to the planned city spot, moving my Warrior up ahead to keep an eye out for England’s Settler, which I saw in the Capital a turn or two ago.

-Start construction on Granary, then Council and Barracks. Temple of Artemis is super tempting to build, but I just know Alexander would already be building toward it since he’s next to a source of Fresh Water (which is a requirement for the Wonder with ‘Expanded Wonders’) and would be at Military Theory since, well, that’s his thing lol We’ll see if I’ll live to regret that.

Turn 52:

15

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-Turns out England only set out to settle York right above herself. Fine by me, as I wasn’t going to reach that Stone and Spice over there anyway.

Turn 53:

16

• KaoticKanine
• Sep 8, 2018

-Dur-Kurgerger has been founded and I buy the Spices Tile to ensure it’s in my trade.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And with that, I'll get back to the game at my next convenient time. Feel free to leave any feedback on how I'm playing and doing this photojournal. Any advice on what to do from here on is also highly welcomed

I apologize for the lack of spoiler for the turns and use of Media for screenshots, but for whatever reason that's beyond understanding, the spoiler for the turns kept manifesting as a double (one for "Turn 0" and one containing the rest) and I have no idea how to upload the images by themselves beyond uploading them to imgur, which I don't want to join at the moment

 

[KaoticKanine]

You know what, I can tell no one is really interested in this photojournal at all, and I seriously rushed into this whole thing, producing very bad content... So, since "4UCs for VP" just got updated anyway, I'm canceling this photojournal and will do a new one in the near future, this time with just the extra UCs mod and cosmetic ones, nothing else

Feel free to laugh and mock me, I deserve humiliation for doing something like this. Any moderators are more than welcome to delete this

 

[Jarula]

Nothing to mock it's interesting.

 

[chicorbeef]

You know what, I can tell no one is really interested in this photojournal at all, and I seriously rushed into this whole thing, producing very bad content... So, since "4UCs for VP" just got updated anyway, I'm canceling this photojournal and will do a new one in the near future, this time with just the extra UCs mod and cosmetic ones, nothing else

Feel free to laugh and mock me, I deserve humiliation for doing something like this. Any moderators are more than welcome to delete this

It's a Tradition Babylon photojournal. I want to see a Tradition Babylon photojournal because I've never played Babylon with Tradition, I've always gone Progress. Also you have Greece as a neighbour and you have an early spearman/comp bow UU, so it would be interesting to clash UUs. I find it interesting to see a photojournal with heavy mods, since the vast majority of the photojournals are lightly modded or Vanilla. Just make sure to explain what they do because I have no idea what most of them are.

I am a little confused though, because it seems like a start that will involve heavy warmongering, so Tradition might be kind of hard. To me this seems like a perfect start to go Authority, straight for Bronze Working, and kill Elizabeth. Either way you should kill Elizabeth sooner or later. You wrote early on that you were going for Bronze Working, so I'm confused why you changed your mind.

This is actually an amazing Spirit of the Desert start, you have, what, 9 desert resources? That's 27 yields without improvement right there. Spirit of the Desrt's gold/production will synergize very nicely with your investment ability. You should be able to found a Religion for sure. The Science from Flood Plains was indeed removed in this patch.

Anyway, it's only been one day, so relax a little. Why on Earth would someone humiliate you for putting work into a photojournal? The photojournal is just fine. You made some choices that I wouldn't make, that means I can see a different playstyle, not that you're a bad player. Just look into the Going for Gold threads and you'll see lots of players disagreeing heavily on what the optimal playstyle is.

Also you're playing on Immortal difficulty, that isn't easy.

 

[KaoticKanine]

I find it interesting to see a photojournal with heavy mods, since the vast majority of the photojournals are lightly modded or Vanilla. Just make sure to explain what they do because I have no idea what most of them are.

Truly? You don't think the mod use is excessive and takes away from the game? Well, alrighty then. I'll edit the first post to explain the function of the Mods, as well as why I chose them

I am a little confused though, because it seems like a start that will involve heavy warmongering, so Tradition might be kind of hard. To me this seems like a perfect start to go Authority, straight for Bronze Working, and kill Elizabeth. Either way you should kill Elizabeth sooner or later. You wrote early on that you were going for Bronze Working, so I'm confused why you changed your mind.

Oh dang, you're right! And many Barbarians were building up too... Well, to explain, I intended to go Tradition from the beginning since that policy tree is all about producing Great People, and Babylon excels at producing Great Scientists. And Babylon isn't meant to be an aggro civ, the UB and Ranged UU are primarily for defense, and though the Spearman gives them a more offensive capability, at the end of the day Babylon is about turtling in the early game, build up tons of science with the Academies, and you can then choose to go Domination with your advanced troops. At least, that's how I see Babylon

Buuuut in hindsight, Authority would've made defending so much easier, and make Elizabeth pay for spying on me (though, at the same time, don't want to get a permanent diplo penalty for outright destroying England)

This is actually an amazing Spirit of the Desert start, you have, what, 9 desert resources? That's 27 yields without improvement right there. Spirit of the Desrt's gold/production will synergize very nicely with your investment ability. You should be able to found a Religion for sure. The Science from Flood Plains was indeed removed in this patch.

Ah, I guess Science from Flood Plains got too out of hand? Well, as you said, it's great to start with, so very glad I went with that Pantheon lol

Anyway, it's only been one day, so relax a little. Why on Earth would someone humiliate you for putting work into a photojournal? The photojournal is just fine. You made some choices that I wouldn't make, that means I can see a different playstyle, not that you're a bad player. Just look into the Going for Gold threads and you'll see lots of players disagreeing heavily on what the optimal playstyle is.

Also you're playing on Immortal difficulty, that isn't easy.

Well, my response wasn't out of being a bad player ^^; It's the thread itself I'm humiliated with; the title, the using of this site's Media function for the screenshots (how do you post images by themselves, without the use of media?), and not using a Spoiler for the turns and screenshots (although that last one seriously couldn't be helped. Everytime, without fail, Turn 0 produced a "double spoiler", which is just the worst). The lack of any responses, and low view count compared to the other recently made threads, made me think no one was liking this photojournal for both those reasons and the heavy use of mods. I also already view myself as a living embarrassment, so... Well, I heavily apologize for the reaction Thank you for talking sense into me. I'll see if this game can still work with the new version of 4UCs for VP. If it does, I'll continue with this photojournal. If not, well, I've been meaning to play a game as the Mayans for a while now lol

EDIT- It does, so the photojournal will continue on!

 

[chicorbeef]

Spoiler :

So, you upload screenshots by clicking "upload file" and put your attachment between the two spoiler brackets.

You could also use imgur if you prefer.

 

[Almonds]

As someone who also just started Photojournaling my playthroughs, I found that the process helped me slow down and actually improve my play. Since a game of VP is hours and hours long, it can be really easy to go into autopilot and make worse and worse decisions. When I took some time every 10-15 minutes to stop, screenshots, and describe my decision-making process, I was able to really pinpoint where my mistakes were being made and they to improve them. If I had not been doing that, I would have probably ended up losing or just quitting the game altogether. I think it's a really fun way to engage yourself with the deep experience this mod brings to Civ as well as this community that formed around it! Even if you aren't having in-depth strategic conversations on your thread like the Deity players get, a lot of people still read and enjoy the content.

Also, I think it is great that you are making use of modmods. I am also using 4UC because I do find that livens up the experience for me. It's your game and it should be fun! In fact, I'm sure those modmod creators are really happy to see people sharing their experience with their creations. So keep at it! When I am on my computer tonight I'll give it a full read because I would love to know what you think of Enlightenment Era and More Wonders.

 

[CppMaster]

Actually I find this photojournalist one of the most interesting, because of these mods. I started reading it today, because I always assume that I have to have more time to read photojournals than other threads. Don't be discouraged by low popularity. I don't comment on these threads, but I enjoy reading them and others may be doing the same, which results in lack of results, despite interest. Keep it up!
PS. Yeah, the way you've posted images is annoying, because I have to open it in new tab to zoom it. Chicorbeef's way is much better, even better than Imgur for me.

 

[KaoticKanine]

Spoiler :

View attachment 503419

So, you upload screenshots by clicking "upload file" and put your attachment between the two spoiler brackets.

You could also use imgur if you prefer.

Thank you so much! That's exactly what I meant to do but couldn't figure out how to make it work ^_^; I actually considered Imgur after this thread, but while it would allow me to be more "colorful" with my speech, I don't want to make my update posts essentially just be a link to the Imgur, screenshots and text, and have people discuss what happens in them on here. Maybe not unless it's a game I already completed and post links to the Imgur, therefore people can just discuss how the whole thing went down at once lol

As someone who also just started Photojournaling my playthroughs, I found that the process helped me slow down and actually improve my play. Since a game of VP is hours and hours long, it can be really easy to go into autopilot and make worse and worse decisions. When I took some time every 10-15 minutes to stop, screenshots, and describe my decision-making process, I was able to really pinpoint where my mistakes were being made and they to improve them. If I had not been doing that, I would have probably ended up losing or just quitting the game altogether. I think it's a really fun way to engage yourself with the deep experience this mod brings to Civ as well as this community that formed around it! Even if you aren't having in-depth strategic conversations on your thread like the Deity players get, a lot of people still read and enjoy the content.

Also, I think it is great that you are making use of modmods. I am also using 4UC because I do find that livens up the experience for me. It's your game and it should be fun! In fact, I'm sure those modmod creators are really happy to see people sharing their experience with their creations. So keep at it! When I am on my computer tonight I'll give it a full read because I would love to know what you think of Enlightenment Era and More Wonders.

Indeed! I had a much better start with this photojournal than my previous attempts with Immortal. I sure as heck didn't expect to settle on the planned areas before England, since I normally got forward-settled like crazy, and that's because I took my time in order to take the screenshots and record the events

And thank you so much Your own photojournal is exactly what inspired me to do photojournals with modmods, so it means a lot to hear this from you. Like, I was planning on doing photojournals, but the lack of any extra mod use made me think I had to play without the mods I came to enjoy, but then you posted that Rome 4UC Photojournal Thread, and it assured me to go ahead with this. I'll definitely give my thoughts on EE and More Wonders in future posts, as I realize I didn't do much with that aside from pointing out that the Karnak is a must for Flood Plains ^_^;

Actually I find this photojournalist one of the most interesting, because of these mods. I started reading it today, because I always assume that I have to have more time to read photojournals than other threads. Don't be discouraged by low popularity. I don't comment on these threads, but I enjoy reading them and others may be doing the same, which results in lack of results, despite interest. Keep it up!
PS. Yeah, the way you've posted images is annoying, because I have to open it in new tab to zoom it. Chicorbeef's way is much better, even better than Imgur for me.

Thank you That's very reassuring to know! It's really hard to gauge interest based solely on views, so I really did get discouraged ^^; But I'll certainly keep at this, even if I end up losing badly lol And yeah, sorry about that. Will nail the images in the next update

In fact, I've got the next update worked on just yesterday, and I wish I could post it right now, but I still gotta organize the post itself on here, but I don't have time at the moment due to an irl event. Will certainly post once I'm free, just responding to you guys in the meantime

 

[KaoticKanine]

Okay! I am now available and here is Part 2 of the game. This time, I decided to only screenshot/share the most major events, as I feel I was showing more insignificant ones in the first post...

Spoiler :

Starting from Turn 53…

Turn 70:

-After many uneventful turns aside from killing that Barbarian camp, I moved my Pathfinder back to the west of Babylon (and now Akkad) to explore more of that area, and found a trio of City-States. Poor Manila is suffering a Barbarian onslaught lol But at least Greece’s Pathfinder is right there to help them out. Alexander is certainly going to have a good early/mid game

Turn 64:

-Bronze Working is completed and I unlock the “Sabum Kibitum”, Babylon’s second UU. It’s essentially a slightly stronger Spearman that has better defense against Ranged Attacks, gains 8 CS per 2 levels, and earns Promotions faster. Given the company I’m surrounded with, this will seriously come in handy, and you better believe I get a huge line of them on the production queue

Turn 74:

-I move my Pathfinder up that area a bit and discover Krakatoa! Immediately, I interrupt my Subum Kibitum spam to make a Settler to get that volcano

-With both Sabum Kibitum and Walls unlocked, I am now able to secure myself from attacks and start a beeline for Writing to get my Academy

Turn 80:

-Newly settled city starts getting bullied for lunch money by the local Barbarian camp, summoning Axe Throwers and Horseman. Highly annoying, but I can manage

Turn 85:

-Wow… A freaking Horseman Barbarian camp spawns right on top of the Lapis Lazuli when my back was turned… *Sigh* I really hate Barbarians, and I’m seriously kicking myself for NOT taking Authority. So, in order to protect my newly founded city and get my Settler to Krakatoa, I am forced to my Sabum Kibitum I just created to help deal with them. Still, I have faith (literally and metaphorically) that Tradition will pay off in the long run

Turn 96:

-Elizabeth finally starts making her move. War is most definitely imminent at this point and I just hope my guys can survive against this upcoming army

Turn 101:

-Spotted England sending a Settler to the North-West area. Thinking that was going to try and nab that Lapis Lazuli below Nippur, I buy the Cattle Tile just above it to hopefully dissuade her from trying to take it

Turn 103:

-I discover Writing, and with that I advance into the Classical Era and receive my free GS. I go on to build an Academy on the 4 Horses next to Babylon, netting myself big science gain and a valuable Resource. I also unlock the Library and immediately start building one in the Capital for the Science Specialists. From there, I begin Research on Iron Working, primarily for the Heroic Epic, which will give all my troops Morale to help defend

-Guess the “imminent war” was a false alarm as England has yet to DoW me. Must’ve gotten spooked by the mobilization of my troops. Let’s see if Elizabeth gets even more spooked once I make my 4 Horsemen -of the Apocalypse-

Turn 104:

-GREAT PROPHET IS BORN AND I FORM MY RELIGION! Just in time too, as the threshold was about to be reached. With the Historical Religions Mod, I select Chaldaenism to be my religion (the actual belief of the Babylonians). Sadly, the Golden Age Founder Belief had been taken, so I’m forced to take “Holy Law”, which is the best thing I can get since it’s strength is based on Followers (i.e. Population). First Follower Belief was a tough choice between Mandirs and Mastery. Mandirs would be a necessity for England, since she keeps helping herself to spying on me and had actually assassinated my Great Merchant points. But Mastery is very beneficial, not only for Golden Ages but so my Scientist Specialists produce even more Scientists. Ultimately though, I go with Mastery since I just know it will be taken by the time I can enhance, while there’s a chance Mandirs will still be available. Let us see if I live to regret that choice. In the meantime, I set an auto-purchase to Missionaries so I can get to work converting my cities, and hopefully England's. Alexander already got his own, so he won't do

(Aaaand I forget to take a screenshot of my Religion being formed. Smooth move, Kaotic…)

Turn 105:

-Turns out I spoke WAY too soon with England. She declared war on me and now the border of Dur-Kurgurer is a battle zone. That foolish queen however had poor timing and I was able to plunder one of her Caravans, then I deal massive damage to her Horsemen. Now time will tell if I turn out to be the fool (in the meantime, I dance to England’s fairly awesome war theme). Also, she founded a new city right next to those trio of City-States. Talk about cramped living space

-Luckily enough, Alexander DoW Elizabeth at the same exact time! So now she’s dealing with a war on both sides X’D Oh Elizabeth, your genius never fails to amuse me! And somehow, I think me and Alexander will be great friends Wait, what am I talking about? This is ALEXANDER we’re talking about

Turn 108:

-I lose a brave and loyal soldier. Got bombarded by a dang Catapult while hiding in a Spice forest. Twas hoping I could move him to safety to heal, but alas, it wasn’t meant to be. I will paint the halls of my palace with Elizabeth’s blood for this. That soldier was like a son to me T_T

Turn 118:

-As if reading my mind a few turns ago, Alexander comes to me for a Declaration of Friendship, no doubt having something to do with my war with England. Since it doesn't hurt to accept, I do so. To think, the King of Babylon would befriend one of Babylon’s conquerors! But we can both agree that the British Empire SUCKS lol And now England’s situation gets worse as Greece allies with Milan, who then declares war on England. And since dear ol’ Elizabeth decided to have that Settler found Canterbury right next to Manila, she better start praying that city doesn’t become an extension of Manila

Turn 124:

-God dang Manila stopped being friends with Greece, and as a result stopped fighting England. And this couldn’t happen at a worse time since now Borsippa is dealing with a stupid Barb Pentecontor (the Ancient Era Ranged Naval Unit in 4UCs, the Drogon becoming Byzantium’s UU again) AND England is thinking of settling right above my two cities, escorted by a Swordsman that is capable of kicking my Sabum Kibitum and Pathfinder’s butts. Things are officially getting dire, but I still believe Tradition Babylon can pull through

Turn 128:

-At long last, Elizabeth has enough warfare and requests a Peace Treaty, and with things having gotten dire by this point, I accept in an instant. Now I can just focus on getting my gold up and deal with the sudden unhappiness of my citizens (that’s what I get for going Tradition and then building a bunch of cities, as well as neglecting the building of Workers to get luxuries…)

-To think, at Turn 53, this game was going so well lol But there’s still a chance for at least catching up!

 

[chicorbeef]

Okay! I am now available and here is Part 2 of the game. This time, I decided to only screenshot/share the most major events, as I feel I was showing more insignificant ones in the first post...

Spoiler :

Starting from Turn 53…

Turn 70:
View attachment 503461
-After many uneventful turns aside from killing that Barbarian camp, I moved my Pathfinder back to the west of Babylon (and now Akkad) to explore more of that area, and found a trio of City-States. Poor Manila is suffering a Barbarian onslaught lol But at least Greece’s Pathfinder is right there to help them out. Alexander is certainly going to have a good early/mid game

Turn 64:

-Bronze Working is completed and I unlock the “Sabum Kibitum”, Babylon’s second UU. It’s essentially a slightly stronger Spearman that has better defense against Ranged Attacks, gains 8 CS per 2 levels, and earns Promotions faster. Given the company I’m surrounded with, this will seriously come in handy, and you better believe I get a huge line of them on the production queue

Turn 74:
View attachment 503462
-I move my Pathfinder up that area a bit and discover Krakatoa! Immediately, I interrupt my Subum Kibitum spam to make a Settler to get that volcano

-With both Sabum Kibitum and Walls unlocked, I am now able to secure myself from attacks and start a beeline for Writing to get my Academy

Turn 80:

-Newly settled city starts getting bullied for lunch money by the local Barbarian camp, summoning Axe Throwers and Horseman. Highly annoying, but I can manage

Turn 85:
View attachment 503463 -Wow… A freaking Horseman Barbarian camp spawns right on top of the Lapis Lazuli when my back was turned… *Sigh* I really hate Barbarians, and I’m seriously kicking myself for NOT taking Authority. So, in order to protect my newly founded city and get my Settler to Krakatoa, I am forced to my Sabum Kibitum I just created to help deal with them. Still, I have faith (literally and metaphorically) that Tradition will pay off in the long run

Turn 96:
View attachment 503464
-Elizabeth finally starts making her move. War is most definitely imminent at this point and I just hope my guys can survive against this upcoming army

Turn 101:

-Spotted England sending a Settler to the North-West area. Thinking that was going to try and nab that Lapis Lazuli below Nippur, I buy the Cattle Tile just above it to hopefully dissuade her from trying to take it

Turn 103:
View attachment 503465
-I discover Writing, and with that I advance into the Classical Era and receive my free GS. I go on to build an Academy on the 4 Horses next to Babylon, netting myself big science gain and a valuable Resource. I also unlock the Library and immediately start building one in the Capital for the Science Specialists. From there, I begin Research on Iron Working, primarily for the Heroic Epic, which will give all my troops Morale to help defend

-Guess the “imminent war” was a false alarm as England has yet to DoW me. Must’ve gotten spooked by the mobilization of my troops. Let’s see if Elizabeth gets even more spooked once I make my 4 Horsemen -of the Apocalypse-

Turn 104:

-GREAT PROPHET IS BORN AND I FORM MY RELIGION! Just in time too, as the threshold was about to be reached. With the Historical Religions Mod, I select Chaldaenism to be my religion (the actual belief of the Babylonians). Sadly, the Golden Age Founder Belief had been taken, so I’m forced to take “Holy Law”, which is the best thing I can get since it’s strength is based on Followers (i.e. Population). First Follower Belief was a tough choice between Mandirs and Mastery. Mandirs would be a necessity for England, since she keeps helping herself to spying on me and had actually assassinated my Great Merchant points. But Mastery is very beneficial, not only for Golden Ages but so my Scientist Specialists produce even more Scientists. Ultimately though, I go with Mastery since I just know it will be taken by the time I can enhance, while there’s a chance Mandirs will still be available. Let us see if I live to regret that choice. In the meantime, I set an auto-purchase to Missionaries so I can get to work converting my cities, and hopefully England's. Alexander already got his own, so he won't do

(Aaaand I forget to take a screenshot of my Religion being formed. Smooth move, Kaotic…)

Turn 105:
View attachment 503466
-Turns out I spoke WAY too soon with England. She declared war on me and now the border of Dur-Kurgurer is a battle zone. That foolish queen however had poor timing and I was able to plunder one of her Caravans, then I deal massive damage to her Horsemen. Now time will tell if I turn out to be the fool (in the meantime, I dance to England’s fairly awesome war theme). Also, she founded a new city right next to those trio of City-States. Talk about cramped living space

-Luckily enough, Alexander DoW Elizabeth at the same exact time! So now she’s dealing with a war on both sides X’D Oh Elizabeth, your genius never fails to amuse me! And somehow, I think me and Alexander will be great friends Wait, what am I talking about? This is ALEXANDER we’re talking about

Turn 108:

-I lose a brave and loyal soldier. Got bombarded by a dang Catapult while hiding in a Spice forest. Twas hoping I could move him to safety to heal, but alas, it wasn’t meant to be. I will paint the halls of my palace with Elizabeth’s blood for this. That soldier was like a son to me T_T

Turn 118:
View attachment 503468
-As if reading my mind a few turns ago, Alexander comes to me for a Declaration of Friendship, no doubt having something to do with my war with England. Since it doesn't hurt to accept, I do so. To think, the King of Babylon would befriend one of Babylon’s conquerors! But we can both agree that the British Empire SUCKS lol And now England’s situation gets worse as Greece allies with Milan, who then declares war on England. And since dear ol’ Elizabeth decided to have that Settler found Canterbury right next to Manila, she better start praying that city doesn’t become an extension of Manila

Turn 124:
View attachment 503469
-God dang Manila stopped being friends with Greece, and as a result stopped fighting England. And this couldn’t happen at a worse time since now Borsippa is dealing with a stupid Barb Pentecontor (the Ancient Era Ranged Naval Unit in 4UCs, the Drogon becoming Byzantium’s UU again) AND England is thinking of settling right above my two cities, escorted by a Swordsman that is capable of kicking my Sabum Kibitum and Pathfinder’s butts. Things are officially getting dire, but I still believe Tradition Babylon can pull through

Turn 128:
View attachment 503472
-At long last, Elizabeth has enough warfare and requests a Peace Treaty, and with things having gotten dire by this point, I accept in an instant. Now I can just focus on getting my gold up and deal with the sudden unhappiness of my citizens (that’s what I get for going Tradition and then building a bunch of cities, as well as neglecting the building of Workers to get luxuries…)

-To think, at Turn 53, this game was going so well lol But there’s still a chance for at least catching up!

Sweet! The formatting/picture quality is much better!

Some thoughts:

-Why are your troops so scattered? You have guys in the back who could be of great use. Use them!

-I am a bit scared for your city Borsippa, it's relatively isolated, has exposure to 3 coastal tiles, and is on flat land.

-Don't worry about that single Sword/Settler. As a matter of fact you could just let her pass and settle a city north, that city would be really easy to take because it's surrounded by your land. Either way Elizabeth probably won't settle a city there.

-I think Thrift would have been a better pick because
a) It synergizes with your UA/UB.
b) You have some serious gold issues.

-Don't forget to sell any luxury resources you may have!

-Petra would have been really nice but that point in the game is long gone. I am thinking you should have just prioritized those two wonders (Karnak and Petra) and utilized Archers for a make-shift defense for a little. I can see how building two desert wonders can be off-putting because of how costly it is but in a Tradition game you should be able to handle it. I maybe would have gone Wheel into Trade.

-I would mostly just be concerned with Elizabeth, she will kill off your trade, spy on you, and later those Ships of the Line will be really annoying for you. Luckily you have two good early UUs so vassalizing/puppeting her should be a priority.

-I would have gone Progress or Authority as well, it's just the way the game seems to be set up to me, but if you can secure your position regarding Elizabeth, you would be set up nicely for Tradition, being in the corner secured with a vassal and plenty of virtually free city-state allies.. I really don't think hope is lost But this early game looks brutal.

-Are you planning to take Iconography? Also what policy trees do you have queued up? Where are you in terms of how far you've gotten in Tradition. Your Culture seems a little low, maybe you didn't prioritize Monuments first?

 

[KaoticKanine]

-Why are your troops so scattered? You have guys in the back who could be of great use. Use them!

My line of thinking was to station those Units at that specific location to defend Akkad, since Elizabeth is right next to it. And since my overall territory is desert, moving them to defend Dur-Kur's border would risk and attack on Akkad and not being able to stop it in time. But you are right, I really should've used them for fighting beneath Dur-Kur

-I am a bit scared for your city Borsippa, it's relatively isolated, has exposure to 3 coastal tiles, and is on flat land.

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna send more troops up there to defend Borsippa. Wasn't the most ideal location to settle a city, but I couldn't get Krakatoa otherwise

-Don't worry about that single Sword/Settler. As a matter of fact you could just let her pass and settle a city north, that city would be really easy to take because it's surrounded by your land. Either way Elizabeth probably won't settle a city there.

Too true! It's blatantly obvious that settling a city up there is suicide, not unless she can insta-build walls

-I think Thrift would have been a better pick because
a) It synergizes with your UA/UB.
b) You have some serious gold issues.

Ah! You're totally right! >.< Well, this is mainly a learning experience. And actually, I think Thrift was one of the taken beliefs. Either way, that would be a serious boon

-Petra would have been really nice but that point in the game is long gone. I am thinking you should have just prioritized those two wonders (Karnak and Petra) and utilized Archers for a make-shift defense for a little. I can see how building two desert wonders can be off-putting because of how costly it is but in a Tradition game you should be able to handle it. I maybe would have gone Wheel into Trade.

Yeah, I was honestly hoping to get Petra once I got the most "secure" techs, but I already figured that Karnak would be the only Wonder I'd manage to get because of how freaking fast the AI is at building Wonders on the higher difficulties. Seriously, how do people manage to build any Wonders on Immortal and Deity? Only reason I managed to build Karnak was because it requires the city to be on/next to a Flood Plains, which isn't common, but all other Wonders are taken before you can even unlock the necessary number of policies. Regardless, beelining for Trade after Wheel truly would've been a better idea. I just worried that my Archers would fall to England's Units, even when garrisoned

-I would mostly just be concerned with Elizabeth, she will kill off your trade, spy on you, and later those Ships of the Line will be really annoying for you. Luckily you have two good early UUs so vassalizing/puppeting her should be a priority.

You're right! I'll see if I can declare war on England alongside Alexander and take her down for good in my next sessions

-I would have gone Progress or Authority as well, it's just the way the game seems to be set up to me, but if you can secure your position regarding Elizabeth, you would be set up nicely for Tradition, being in the corner secured with a vassal and plenty of virtually free city-state allies.. I really don't think hope is lost But this early game looks brutal.

Yeah, either of those would have been much preferable to Tradition. I was actually about to write about to joke about how much Tradition was a mistake in that post But I backed out since it felt like I was trashing Tradition!Babylon, which isn't the case. I think it's very viable, just this isn't the right situation. I'll definitely try to vassalize Elizabeth, or better yet wipe her ffrom existence lol After all, vassals can still spy against you and overall annoy you, right?

-Are you planning to take Iconography? Also what policy trees do you have queued up? Where are you in terms of how far you've gotten in Tradition. Your Culture seems a little low, maybe you didn't prioritize Monuments first?

Definitely yes! Since I managed to grab a Religion, my build order is Tradition>Fealty>Rationalism (not sure on Ideology yet, but likely Freedom if it turns out ideal). I believe I'm just one Policy away from completing Tradition, that being "Splendor". I guess I should screenshot each and every Policy choice in the future? And yeah, I focused Shrines with all my cities to ensure grabbing a Religion ^_^; I know Monuments are mega important, but getting your own Religion is just so good! But since I have the Religion now, Monuments will get full priority now

 

[Viralvoid]

This is fun to read! thanks, but as usual, I can't stop keeping everything to myself when I feel that something is not right. I'm sorry about that.

-The first and the most important: Your capital is very wonderful in all terms, especially the flood plains!
Seeing such wonderful floodplains as TRADITION and having 3 good-looking production resources, I should've bought or built 2-3 workers to improve the tiles as soon as possible. I can see that at turn 100, you still have no workers nor improved resources/farms in your capital. As tradition, that is the MOST important thing you should have done. You'll slingshot right away with good production and food, as well as giving you more specialists to work through.
-What VC are you aiming for? as Babylon, I suppose it is SV, so I guess Fealty "could" be an ideal choice. However, since you took Tradition, I'll have my doubts, but we'll see.
-I can see that you're building trireme in your capital, I think it could be better if you queue 3 workers, 1 to 2 workers per city is the ideal choice.
-Too much flat land, nice canal city (Akkad), Krokatoa-city has 3 coastal tiles against England could make your game really hard throughout the game.
-With strong tradition capital, You should also beeline Mathematics (If you did), build hanging gardens, build 3-4 catapults and conquer England, assisted with your early UU, you can easily defeat England even without Alexander.
-Tradition is also good with early wars if you play it right.

I think statescraft is also a good policy, especially with your UA, having 3 nearby city-states, and England nearby (counterspy or spy on her in return).
Statescraft has science per specialists and constabulary, so it is not a bad choice.
Artistry is also good for your golden ages, especially with Lapiz.

tbh, I can not see any synergy with fealty. monastery will not provide much science as shadow networks or Artistry's per policy science/gap, you can slingshot your growth later without fealty at Rationalism (Rights of Man, the one with 33% spy reduction and -1 food from specialists, and closer) and Freedom (civil society+urbanization).

After taking England -> focus on tile improvement and infrastructure, and don't anger Greece.
Goodluck!

 

[KaoticKanine]

This is fun to read! thanks, but as usual, I can't stop keeping everything to myself when I feel that something is not right. I'm sorry about that.

No worries, dude I'm doing this both for entertainment and for constructive criticism so I can play the higher difficulty games better. If I'm doing something wrong, don't hesitate to tell me, so next time I'll do better XD Besides, I prefer blunt honesty to "kind lies" to begin with. Very glad to know that I'm succeeding in the entertainment department

-The first and the most important: Your capital is very wonderful in all terms, especially the flood plains!
Seeing such wonderful floodplains as TRADITION and having 3 good-looking production resources, I should've bought or built 2-3 workers to improve the tiles as soon as possible. I can see that at turn 100, you still have no workers nor improved resources/farms in your capital. As tradition, that is the MOST important thing you should have done. You'll slingshot right away with good production and food, as well as giving you more specialists to work through.

Oof! Clearly, I didn't know about Tradition as much as I thought I did... Alrighty, I'll build two more Workers and get to work on those improvements! And next Tradition game, I'm not overlooking those Workers again lol

-What VC are you aiming for? as Babylon, I suppose it is SV, so I guess Fealty "could" be an ideal choice. However, since you took Tradition, I'll have my doubts, but we'll see.

Definitely shooting for Science Victory. But how come Tradition isn't good for SV? I know Progress gives Science per Pop increase, but it's also the premier Wide build, which increases Science cost, while going Tall doesn't. I'm sorry, I'm just very confused ^_^;

-I can see that you're building trireme in your capital, I think it could be better if you queue 3 workers, 1 to 2 workers per city is the ideal choice.

Definitely agreed! Just building a quick Trireme to deal with England's navy, protect my coastal cities on the West while I focus my land units on going to war with her lol

-Too much flat land, nice canal city (Akkad), Krokatoa-city has 3 coastal tiles against England could make your game really hard throughout the game.

Undoubtedly... But I'm sure I can manage things by keeping a constant garrison of archers and triremes, enough to keep both land and naval units at bay. Question is if I can manage the upkeep to begin with

-With strong tradition capital, You should also beeline Mathematics (If you did), build hanging gardens, build 3-4 catapults and conquer England, assisted with your early UU, you can easily defeat England even without Alexander.

I forget if I already got Mathematics, but I'll certainly follow that strategy! England must not be allowed to exist any longer. And I don't think I have to worry too much about warmonger penalties since the only other AI I know is Alexander, who will likely not care. At least, he better not! He'd be one heck of a hypocrite otherwise lol

I think statescraft is also a good policy, especially with your UA, having 3 nearby city-states, and England nearby (counterspy or spy on her in return).
Statescraft has science per specialists and constabulary, so it is not a bad choice.
Artistry is also good for your golden ages, especially with Lapiz.

tbh, I can not see any synergy with fealty. monastery will not provide much science as shadow networks or Artistry's per policy science/gap, you can slingshot your growth later without fealty at Rationalism (Rights of Man, the one with 33% spy reduction and -1 food from specialists, and closer) and Freedom (civil society+urbanization).

After taking England -> focus on tile improvement and infrastructure, and don't anger Greece.
Goodluck!

Yeah, I was second-guessing Fealty since, as the policy description states, it only helps with Food, Production, and other Infrastructure. Not exactly what I'm looking for, so I'll definitely take Statecraft next. Thank you so much for these suggestions! Will be working on the next part soon

 

[amateurgamer88]

So far I'm enjoying what I'm reading. However, the last screenshot looks rather dire. -6 and 7 seems quite serious. I wonder how many turns you need to fix that since it can't help you in terms of science and culture. I also wonder about the city placements. You have a very wide front to deal with and Alexander will turn his sights on you eventually. I notice that Immortal AI do have quite the quantity advantage in terms of units so I wonder if you can defend all your cities properly, especially with Borsippa quite far from the capital. While the natural wonder is nice, I just hope you didn't overexpand and put yourself in a bad position. Looking forward to the next update.

 

[KaoticKanine]

Alright, here be Part 3!

Spoiler Turns 129-163 :

Turn 129

-At the suggestions of chicorbeef and Viralvoid, I queue up two Workers to get improving my cities, and 4 Catapults in order to wipe out England from this Earth. Sadly, Hanging Gardens had already been taken in this game and England didn’t build it, so I won’t be able to make that Wonder (ironic, since it’s Babylon’s Wonder in real life). But oh well, we can recover from that

-Great Engineer is born and I move it to the Desert tile so it can be made useful, and I direct my finished Trireme up to Borsippa to defend the city from anymore freaking deaking Barbarians (Just hope it’s not blocked by ice)


Turn 130

-Manufactuary is built, Workers finish improving Gems and I have them work on the Iron, and start production on a Work Boat in Dur-Kurgerer to improve the source of Pearls

-Converted all owned cities to my religion, allowing me to focus fire on the City-States and England

-Officially rename Dur-Kurigalzu to Dur-Kurgerer


Turn 135

-Pathfinder disbands due to negative funds. Ability to explore rest of the world now delayed until I can construct a Scout, or better yet an Explorer

Turn 140

-Alexander asks me if I’d be interested in going to war with England with him, and I answer yes. With my units in position, I’m in a fairly good state to start attacking her, and with good help no less

-Spy has been recruited, and I plan to use him on Elizabeth. Give that witch a taste of her own medicine

Turn 141

-Lost a Unit up at Canterbury, but Hastings looks as good as gone with Greek reinforcements. And as a bonus, a Great General is born in my capital! Just hope my one Unit at the far left can survive the GG empowered Swordsman, and the whole army can survive that freaking Knight…

-Also got a Worker stolen by England’s Scout, and now she will pay

Turn 145

-The assault on Canterbury is a massive failure, with all Units getting killed, and I cringe in humiliation at my awful war game. Only bright side up there is that Borsippa and Nippur are close to having their Walls, so at least they won't be easily taken. Really should’ve waited on declaring war alongside Alexander

Turn 148

-My free Emissary from Scrivener’s Office ends up getting killed by an unseen Trireme, and by this point I’m starting to wish I could restart this whole game, only to remind myself that this is a learning experience and I must play to the end. On the bright side, England leaves her GG exposed and I happily kill it with my Horseman

Turn 157

-Things take a turn for the worse in the Battle of Hastings, not helped by Alexander being a terrible ally, and I’m forced to retreat. On the bright side, I’m finally nearing the next military techs, so my Units will get stronger, and my gold and happiness has vastly improved, so I can hold out longer

-Also, the Mayans discover me. Damn it all, now he’s totally going to denounce me when I take down England!

Turn 158

-In one fell swoop, I advance to the Medieval Era and every single Civ meets me, forming the World Congress

Turn 161

-I make peace with England, since this war is taking its toll on me, and I prepare a massive army to try and take her down next time. Though, now that my UUs are becoming obsolete, I’m starting to wonder if I should even bother trying to finish off England now. She’s way ahead of me on tech anyway, so my guys will always be weaker than hers simply because I can’t catch up Elizabeth

-Finish off the Tradition branch, and set my sites on Statecraft

Turn 162

-Another Great Scientist is born and I move him to build another Academy below the first Flood Plain

Turn 163

-Great Prophet is born in Babylon and I waste no time in enhancing my Religion. Sure enough, the Mandir is still available, and since I failed to wipe England out, I take it. For Enhancer Belief, I go with Dioceses as it appeared most useful of all the available Enhancers, giving Babylon extra Culture and Faith, and providing Gold and Golden Age Points, both very much good for my build

Well, the money and happiness issue have been resolved, but that war was really exhausting, and now that I have met all other AI in the game, I can't take out England without all of them becoming Guarded or Hostile toward me, and needless to say I don't know where to go from there aside from going Statecraft and Rationalism

 

[chicorbeef]

Alright, here be Part 3!

Spoiler Turns 129-163 :

Turn 129
View attachment 503568
-At the suggestions of chicorbeef and Viralvoid, I queue up two Workers to get improving my cities, and 4 Catapults in order to wipe out England from this Earth. Sadly, Hanging Gardens had already been taken in this game and England didn’t build it, so I won’t be able to make that Wonder (ironic, since it’s Babylon’s Wonder in real life). But oh well, we can recover from that

-Great Engineer is born and I move it to the Desert tile so it can be made useful, and I direct my finished Trireme up to Borsippa to defend the city from anymore freaking deaking Barbarians (Just hope it’s not blocked by ice)


Turn 130

-Manufactuary is built, Workers finish improving Gems and I have them work on the Iron, and start production on a Work Boat in Dur-Kurgerer to improve the source of Pearls

-Converted all owned cities to my religion, allowing me to focus fire on the City-States and England

-Officially rename Dur-Kurigalzu to Dur-Kurgerer


Turn 135

-Pathfinder disbands due to negative funds. Ability to explore rest of the world now delayed until I can construct a Scout, or better yet an Explorer

Turn 140
View attachment 503570
-Alexander asks me if I’d be interested in going to war with England with him, and I answer yes. With my units in position, I’m in a fairly good state to start attacking her, and with good help no less

-Spy has been recruited, and I plan to use him on Elizabeth. Give that witch a taste of her own medicine

Turn 141
View attachment 503571-Lost a Unit up at Canterbury, but Hastings looks as good as gone with Greek reinforcements. And as a bonus, a Great General is born in my capital! Just hope my one Unit at the far left can survive the GG empowered Swordsman, and the whole army can survive that freaking Knight…

-Also got a Worker stolen by England’s Scout, and now she will pay

Turn 145

-The assault on Canterbury is a massive failure, with all Units getting killed, and I cringe in humiliation at my awful war game. Only bright side up there is that Borsippa and Nippur are close to having their Walls, so at least they won't be easily taken. Really should’ve waited on declaring war alongside Alexander

Turn 148
View attachment 503572
-My free Emissary from Scrivener’s Office ends up getting killed by an unseen Trireme, and by this point I’m starting to wish I could restart this whole game, only to remind myself that this is a learning experience and I must play to the end. On the bright side, England leaves her GG exposed and I happily kill it with my Horseman

Turn 157
View attachment 503573
-Things take a turn for the worse in the Battle of Hastings, not helped by Alexander being a terrible ally, and I’m forced to retreat. On the bright side, I’m finally nearing the next military techs, so my Units will get stronger, and my gold and happiness has vastly improved, so I can hold out longer

-Also, the Mayans discover me. Damn it all, now he’s totally going to denounce me when I take down England!

Turn 158
View attachment 503574
-In one fell swoop, I advance to the Medieval Era and every single Civ meets me, forming the World Congress

Turn 161
View attachment 503575
-I make peace with England, since this war taking its toll on me, and I prepare a massive army to try and take her down next time. Though, now that my UUs are becoming obsolete, I’m starting to wonder if I should even bother trying to finish off England now. She’s way ahead of me on tech anyway, so my guys will always be weaker than hers simply because I can’t catch up Elizabeth

-Finish off the Tradition branch, and set my sites on Statecraft

Turn 162

-Another Great Scientist is born and I move him to build another Academy below the first Flood Plain

Turn 163
View attachment 503576
-Great Prophet is born in Babylon and I waste no time in enhancing my Religion. Sure enough, the Mandir is still available, and since I failed to wipe England out, I take it. For Enhancer Belief, I go with Dioceses as it appeared most useful of all the available Enhancers, giving Babylon extra Culture and Faith, and providing Gold and Golden Age Points, both very much good for my build

Well, the money and happiness issue have been resolved, but that war was really exhausting, and now that I have met all other AI in the game, I can't take out England without all of them becoming Guarded or Hostile toward me, and needless to say I don't know where to go from there aside from going Statecraft and Rationalism

I think you have a classic case of "all eggs in one basket" right here because you couldn't win the war and now your economy is in pretty poor shape. This has happened to me personally way too many times and is one of the top reasons I abandon games. It has happened to me as Rome, Zulu, Aztec and a handful of other warmonger civs. So I really feel for you

I noticed you apparently lost like 10 units. This is very bad. If you can't win a war then pull out. Losing units harms you much more than it harms the AI.

I notice England has Knights and you have open Catapults to be one-shotted. If this happens it's a good idea to get the hell out of there. You're never going to win that battle so might as well cut your losses.

You said you finished the Tradition tree with Splendor. I always go Splendor before Majesty because the +Culture is very valuable, and the flat +5 food is better than half-specialist food prices because I'm usually not working a whole lot of specialists before I finish Tradition. I always prioritize the Culture specialists first.

If building a Catapult takes 4 turns, you should probably make 2 in your capital, and the rest in other cities, in order to get them out as faster. It's really hard to do this as Tradition (I never really war when I pick Tradition, for precisely this reason....I can't afford the wasted production. I guess I underestimated how bad Tradition's war capability is in this game when I advised you to take out Elizabeth, my bad).

I don't know how I would go from here because you seem pretty behind tbh. Like how many policies/techs ahead are the other nations? I also think maybe Fealty would actually be better than Statecraft because your cities are really small.

 

[Viralvoid]

Definitely shooting for Science Victory. But how come Tradition isn't good for SV? I know Progress gives Science per Pop increase, but it's also the premier Wide build, which increases Science cost, while going Tall doesn't. I'm sorry, I'm just very confused ^_^;

Nah, my doubt is tradition+fealty. My sentence is just vague, hehe. (not my native language, sorry)

I don't know how I would go from here because you seem pretty behind tbh. Like how many policies/techs ahead are the other nations? I also think maybe Fealty would actually be better than Statecraft because your cities are really small.

I have tried Tradition + Statescraft, it was actually better compared to Tradition + Fealty.
Fealty is better for wide-play, Statescraft can also be good in tall, because its policies have less "per city" effects. The free spies, science per specialists, the trade route yields, the extra trade route and quest rewards is not dependent on the number of cities you have.

So why did I include "quest rewards"?
Because tall can do better in quest rewards, like the dazzling monumental efforts (you only have to build 5 maximum, when wide, I am required to build 15+), Tradition means easier great person, and others. Tall also has high culture if you focused on it, however, this part seems neutral, same with the religion spread quest.

The gold per city is actually nice, it means you have "less city" to invest to, I tried a game where I have more than 20 cities, and a thousand GPT, but it can not invest on every city. It is not actually about the gpt, but you can take a look at the other policies statescraft can provide.

@KaoticKanine You can still win, but you'll have a rough time. I won being the last (in terms of score) non-vassal civilization with cultural victory on Immortal by sending lots of trade routes.
Just ignore them, send trade routes to the runner, and utterly focus on your growth. You'll grow as soon as you have completed rationalism.

What concerns me is placing a great person tile on a desert (I'm not sure if you did).
You should never do that, you should always place your great person tile on either a resource, a hill, a grassland. You'll benefit more on that tile, and as a tradition civ, you should place that on a nearby city (overlapping tiles), so other city could work on that.

Here, take a look.

Spoiler Manila :

Boston, Washington and Manila share some of the great person tiles.
but in this game, I'm just lucky I started on a small island.

 

[amateurgamer88]

I definitely wish you best of luck because you are in a tight spot for sure. England isn't going to be on good terms with you and her tech advantage makes her quite scary. In addition to her knights which are very powerful units, she should have trebuchet which should make your walls more or less an inconvenience. I don't know if you can avoid wars with her because I'd avoid further wars until I caught up in tech, at least the ones with military units that'll give you a somewhat even footing.

I also wonder about your buildings. It seems like you not only focused a lot on unit building prior to the war but you also have to replace the units you lost to defend against your foes. This might be delaying a lot of key buildings needed to help your empire flourish. When future wars happen, I hope you avoid losing units because it's usually a bad trade losing even one unit when the AI, especially at this difficulty, just field such a massive army. You said you'll be unlocking new units soon so I wonder if it might be better to put off some unit production until then since the costs of upgrades might not be worth it for now.

You can catch up through spies and trade routes. This might take awhile but trading with the most advanced civ can give some ridiculous yields. Of course, I'm more worried about two other civs other than England. First, Greece seems to be in a good position and, if they conquer England, you'd have a terrifying neighbor to deal with. Secondly, there might be a civ on the other continent that will snowball. If that's the case, you playing catch up overall will be quite the grind. It's not impossible but you have quite a hill to climb. How are you in tech/policies with the leader right now? Still, I'd be interested to see how you recover from this.

 

[KaoticKanine]

I think you have a classic case of "all eggs in one basket" right here because you couldn't win the war and now your economy is in pretty poor shape. This has happened to me personally way too many times and is one of the top reasons I abandon games. It has happened to me as Rome, Zulu, Aztec and a handful of other warmonger civs. So I really feel for you

Yeah, I just can't but get "gung-ho" about going to war, only to end up overextending myself and lose more than I gain. Although I tend to manage things better as a warmonger civ, I guess cause I played more carefully to begin with, but Tradition Babylon was just not going to work out...

I noticed you apparently lost like 10 units. This is very bad. If you can't win a war then pull out. Losing units harms you much more than it harms the AI.

I notice England has Knights and you have open Catapults to be one-shotted. If this happens it's a good idea to get the hell out of there. You're never going to win that battle so might as well cut your losses.

...I would be using a much stronger word right now if it wasn't discouraged by this forum O_O So dang lol Okay, definitely making a note to self to PULL out of battles that aren't going anywhere, and save Units at all costs

You said you finished the Tradition tree with Splendor. I always go Splendor before Majesty because the +Culture is very valuable, and the flat +5 food is better than half-specialist food prices because I'm usually not working a whole lot of specialists before I finish Tradition. I always prioritize the Culture specialists first.

Oh! Didn't consider the yields a given policy grants, just looked at the "special ability" stuff I think I should rename this thread "Local Fool Makes All the Wrong Decisions with Tradition" lol

If building a Catapult takes 4 turns, you should probably make 2 in your capital, and the rest in other cities, in order to get them out as faster. It's really hard to do this as Tradition (I never really war when I pick Tradition, for precisely this reason....I can't afford the wasted production. I guess I underestimated how bad Tradition's war capability is in this game when I advised you to take out Elizabeth, my bad).

Yeah, and it doesn't help that England went Authority, so her Units hit harder (Probably should've shown that ^_^; You know what, exactly how much detail should I be screenshotting and telling? I feel like I shouldn't give too much, but now I feel like I'm giving too little)

It's all good lol You weren't the only one to suggest that, and I probably would've went with that strategy on my own from Alexander's joint war declaration. I think from here on, I'm just going to focus on garrisoning my cities and trying to stay on England's good side. I'm going to be optimistic and think that Elizabeth will be more focused on Greece, since he is the bigger threat to her than I and LOVES declaring war on his neighbors

Nah, my doubt is tradition+fealty. My sentence is just vague, hehe. (not my native language, sorry)

Ah It's all good!

You can still win, but you'll have a rough time. I won being the last (in terms of score) non-vassal civilization with cultural victory on Immortal by sending lots of trade routes.
Just ignore them, send trade routes to the runner, and utterly focus on your growth. You'll grow as soon as you have completed rationalism.

Understood! So then, in that case, I gotta get Harbor and research Astronomy fast so I can send my Cargo Ships to the Civs with highest tech and policies

Funnily enough, I was playing an Immortal game on Japan to practice making photojournals (not gonna make a thread for that one though, as it ended up getting boring and I decided I want to change a setting on the map), and my first instinct on getting Caravans was to send them to America, who is effectively tied with Portugal and Korea in terms of tech, and sure enough I started catching up lol

What concerns me is placing a great person tile on a desert (I'm not sure if you did).
You should never do that, you should always place your great person tile on either a resource, a hill, a grassland. You'll benefit more on that tile, and as a tradition civ, you should place that on a nearby city (overlapping tiles), so other city could work on that.

I actually totally did... Yep, I'm totally going to rename this entire thread "Complete Noob Makes All the Wrong Decisions". But in seriousness, thank you for telling me of this. I'll not making that mistake ever again, and will definitely do that strategy next time

I definitely wish you best of luck because you are in a tight spot for sure. England isn't going to be on good terms with you and her tech advantage makes her quite scary. In addition to her knights which are very powerful units, she should have trebuchet which should make your walls more or less an inconvenience. I don't know if you can avoid wars with her because I'd avoid further wars until I caught up in tech, at least the ones with military units that'll give you a somewhat even footing.

Yeah, things are definitely looking grim with how England is operating. Best chance is that Alex takes the aggro from her, but even then, as you point out, if he ends up too successful on that front, I'll have an even worse direct neighbor to deal with. Still, I should be fine if I focus on Castles and other defensive buildings

I also wonder about your buildings. It seems like you not only focused a lot on unit building prior to the war but you also have to replace the units you lost to defend against your foes. This might be delaying a lot of key buildings needed to help your empire flourish. When future wars happen, I hope you avoid losing units because it's usually a bad trade losing even one unit when the AI, especially at this difficulty, just field such a massive army. You said you'll be unlocking new units soon so I wonder if it might be better to put off some unit production until then since the costs of upgrades might not be worth it for now.

Yeah, best to focus on infrastructure, then produce units when the upgraded versions are reseached

You can catch up through spies and trade routes. This might take awhile but trading with the most advanced civ can give some ridiculous yields. Of course, I'm more worried about two other civs other than England. First, Greece seems to be in a good position and, if they conquer England, you'd have a terrifying neighbor to deal with. Secondly, there might be a civ on the other continent that will snowball. If that's the case, you playing catch up overall will be quite the grind. It's not impossible but you have quite a hill to climb. How are you in tech/policies with the leader right now? Still, I'd be interested to see how you recover from this.

I'm way behind, last place in all areas. Trading with the first placers is definitely my only hope now. And thanks, I'll do my best to recover, if mainly so this journal doesn't become more frustrating than fun ^_^;