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immortal byzantines -fastest victory challange

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by nishant1911, Jan 15, 2011.

  1. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Hmm so really a person's luck with huts & events basically makes/breaks this game, not the strategy. Not really sure you can benchmark anything here... Would have been better to re-start I think.
     
  2. PeteJ

    PeteJ Warlord

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    960ad conquest

    This was a really fun map. I quickly expanded to 6 cities while aiming for feudalism with the oracle. I got it a bit late in 1480bc and I finished guilds in 175bc. After that I pretty much steamrolled the whole continent with cataphracts.

    Imageshack seems to be down so no screenshots.
     

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  3. JSS

    JSS Prince

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    1450 conquest with a score of 350k~. Took me 4h 5min, automated workers in 175BC at the time when guilds finished. I just recently moved up to emperor and this was my first attempt at immortal. This map is ridiculously easy, there's no way I could win an Immortal game on a non-rigged map.

    Spoiler :
     
  4. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    I got the whole universe vassaled by 940 AD. Special dumb points goes to HC who FRIENDLY VASSALED to me, despite he was clearly going to lose if he didn't break off. I just don't understand this stupid AI.

    Spoiler :
     

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  5. yanner39

    yanner39 Emperor

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    I'm looking for some help here. I see the early wins results and I'm getting a little frustrated. I'm trying the Cataphract rush like alot of you have done. It's 250AD and I'm finally ready to attack but I'm thinking it's too late. I DOWed Capac, he bribed Hannibal, which is no big deal since he hasn't sent anyone.

    My stack is mostly going up against Longbowmen, elephants and Capac eventually gets Pikes.

    I got the Oracle, chose Metal Casting and I tried to get Guilds as quickly as possible.

    Anyways, I can't even get by Capac. The first time I tried it, I expanded to 8 cities but my Guilds date was way too late. Then I tried for a smaller 6-city civ to save on maintenance and I didn't fare to well. Maybe I got too focus on doing the cata rush and didn't play efficiently. Any tips would be great.
     

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  6. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    ^^ can't look at your save now

    I went with 4 city break out (or was it 5? but I think the 5th city was a bit later, 6 was basically after 2 AI's dead)

    you have to reduce city maintenance for this deep tech paths.

    I remember not going with upper part of tree, but instead oracling MC, gambling on GE through forge for Machinery bulb (I still consider this gamble too risky, should have really have city 2 prepared for 3 pop whip of forge). Selfteched the Monarchy->Feud line.

    Trades covered Alpha, math and some. Run a lot of direct research to be at guilds quicker.
    I think I got guilds around 375 BC.
    Cities should get granary, barracks, no need for stables (imo) and maybe some libraries (I think I got in the first 3 cities, but the rest of course without). Cut on buildings hammers and switch into research mode asap.

    Don't overtrade here though. You definitely don't want to speed much the AI's towards Feud and Eng (so don't trade away MC to too many AI's, be even cautious with Monarchy), I almost think that getting from tech trades only Alpha, Math, possibly currency is the only techs you want to get from AI's before you go for first AI.
     
  7. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    1060 AD Conquest.

    Could have done it better with better Great People management. Initial Great Spy was a wash. Ended game in middle of golden age, with 4 Great People standing in line for more Golden Ages when the game ended.

    Probably could have ended the game 200 years earlier with better play early. Had I attacked sooner (gotten the necessary techs earlier with an earlier Golden Age) I could have finished off the civs on the right side of the map BEFORE they got Engineering. As it stood, my troops had to conquer all the way across one side of the continent, and then move back to the other side once I had Curs. That wasted 20 turns.

    EDIT: Haha. Did a lot more conquering than obsolete. Still, 940 AD beats 1070 AD.
     
  8. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    1. The land is so good that you don't need to rush early. It'll actually slow you down.

    2. I dumped my first settler on the stone and had it pump Wonders. It got Stonehenge, GW, and Pyramids.

    3. Did a risky play and managed to Oracle Feudalism. I kind of skipped all of the worker techs except Agriculture, Masonry, and Mining, and beelined Writing and Monarchy.

    4. Traded Monarchy for Alphabet, at which point I traded for all of the essential techs.

    5. Had to self-tech Metal Casting, Machinery, HBR, and Guilds. That took the longest time, since I was REXing like mad at that time too, to get the necessary infrastructure for mass production of Catphracts.

    6. To increase research, I relied on 0-30% research with lots of scientists, Representation and hammer-build research (I didn't have Currency for the longest time).

    7. Once everything was ready, I ran Police State, Slavery, and chopped all of the forests around the capital to mass-produce Cataphracts. Had 10-11 cities at that point so I was able to produce a large army, pretty fast. Police State whips with size 6 to size 8 cities is PERFECT. Your happy is high enough that it's not an issue. Also, at those small sizes, the cities recover quickly.

    8. Attacked 200 AD I think. Hit the Incans and Portuguese 5-7 turns BEFORE they got Engineering and Feudalism respectively. In other words, perfect timing. If you miss that timing, you're in trouble. DO NOT MISS THAT TIMING OR ELSE....

    9. The rest was a walk.

    10. At one point I was at 4 workers and 6 cities due to being IMP (being IMP on this map, with all those gems and gold, is like: MUST BUILD SETTLERS. I couldn't resist). It was ok, because I managed to work all the important resource tiles. Furthermore, I'm Spiritual, so I could use Serfdom. Also, the Wonder city was plopped on a Stone and was at pop 1 like forever, so that saved a lot of worker-turns.
     
  9. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Whoa there. Looked at your save Yanner. Lots of things wrong:

    1. You didn't block. My first settler was placed on the STONE tile (where Seatle, I think, is in your game) to block AND to build Wonders.

    2. Your city placement is piss-poor (excuse the language). Place your cities IMMEDIATELY next to the gold or the food, etc. That way, you can take advantage of it MUCH MUCH SOONER. For example, one of your cities is pop 6 BUT the gold-tile is un-improved BECAUSE you didn't place the city next to the gold (and hence you had to wait for the border pop before you can work it).

    3. Your cities are TOO PRETTY. They're like, placed in perfect locations. This is really bad at immortal+ levels. As a result, your production stinks and so you'll miss your timing.

    4. You're IMP. Don't worry too much about "pretty cities." Concentrate instead on getting lots of over-lapping cities that start IMMEDIATELY next to an important gold, food, or stone resource.

    5. I looked at the tech screen. Why have you not been trading?

    6. ALWAYS get more cities, especially on this map. You can afford it with the huge amounts of gems, gold, and what-not laying around. Work those tiles always to keep up research.

    7. The Pyramids is important. You're Spiritual, which means with the Pyramids you can constantly switch between Representation and Police State.

    8. Try again. Get the Stone. Get the Stonehenge. Get the Pyramids. Get the gems and gold up ASAP. Put a couple of good blocking cities. Then fill in your interior land. You'll see how much easier it is.
     
  10. barbertje

    barbertje Prince

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    You should really scout more. you've only located a single Incan city.
    The Incans will be rather hard to conquer with high culture and chizen itza bonus.
    It would be really nice to know how soon you can attack the capital from a neighbours' territory.
    Since you're not going for a really early attack, I think it would have been better to build a couple of stables.
     
  11. GenerallyGreat

    GenerallyGreat Prince

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    I had a quick look and I noticed your lack of scouting and hated your city placement. I don't really have a lot of advice though as I couldn't beat this map until 1100ad.
     
  12. yanner39

    yanner39 Emperor

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    Thanks everyone. Always appreciated.

    @vranasm - you've answered one on my questions about expanding too quickly and slow down my tech rate. My usually concern is not have enough cities to quickly build an army. I'm assuming chain-whipping was used.

    @GG I think you did good considering what others have gotten - pretty much on par with them.

    I'm especially interested in the comments on my city placement. Four of the 6 cities I think were ok: The Capital, Adrianople, Antioch and Thessalonica were placed so that I had immediate access to resources/food. The other 2 were simply a product of not being able to put cities less than 2 squares apart.

    But I do get why it slowed things down a little - I need to take more care at that. Playing with creative leaders too much lately ;)

    @ Marigoldran

    Actually that's why I placed Thessalonica where I did. With the mountain range, I almost get a perfect block. I supposed I could have settled the Stone and farmed the Floodplains, but there are no food resources in the first ring. How soon should I have settled this city?

    I'll replay this game for sure with all the advice.
     
  13. GenerallyGreat

    GenerallyGreat Prince

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    Trying this on a regular map I'd imagine you'd want to limit the number of cites right down but this is a cooked map where you can build a lot of kick ass cities that work for you in short time. I didn't check what the better players did but i couldn't resist using the PH spot for a northern city with 2 pigs + cow. I managed to fit the henge in before the oracle though so that was my excuse for not settling for 1st ring food. :D
     
  14. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    You know, that means you still win in 960 AD, despite bolding 940AD :p
     
  15. PeteJ

    PeteJ Warlord

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    @Yanner
    A few notes about your city placement:

    -I understand why you moved your capital but it is a mistake. Settling on the marble gives you 2 extra hammers for every turn in the whole game. The third gem can easily be claimed with another city.

    -Thessalonica is in a good spot. I settled my Thessalonica 1east of yours because I was planning to settle a quick third city 3west of it to seal off my land, but I think I prefer your spot. Marigoldran gives good advice about grabbing the stone site, but it is personally not my style to settle my second city so far away. I dunno maybe in this situation it is superior.

    -Adrianople should be 1 north of where it is. The idea is that while it is a nice city where it is, it probably took many turns for the border pop to work all of those tiles. If you settle it 1north, it is immediately a nice city and you can start working everything without a border pop. Also Nicaea is better place 1north and that isn't possible with Adrianople where it is.

    -Nicomedia should be placed by the clams to work the clams and gold immediately. In your save, you are just now hooking up that gold mine but you are already at guilds so it doesn't help much.

    -Also I noticed you have a number of cottages. In this situation with so many commerce resources, I think it is better to skip cottages and focus on production in all of your cities. You can easily make it to guilds using just your commerce resources and building research. If you were going for lib or something farther down the line then I would maybe lay some cottages down.
     
  16. yanner39

    yanner39 Emperor

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    Thanks PeteJ. This is great advice. I'll give it a try.
     
  17. PeteJ

    PeteJ Warlord

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    I decided to give this another go. This time I won via conquest in 760ad.

    Spoiler :





    Spoiler :




    This time I grabbed the stone with my third site and built the mids. I also aimed for Machinery with the oracle instead of Feudalism. It was a bit riskier but it paid off.
     

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  18. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    1st time attempt, 780AD conquest.

    Spoiler :


    Oracle to COL to get a religion. Built shrine. Built Pyramids to help with research. Established very strong econ base for self-researching to Guilds and Engineering.

    HA rushed Inca and England first to unlock HE. Later was all Cata.

    25BC capture Cuzco

    Uploaded at ImageFra.me


    780 AD victory
    Uploaded at ImageFra.me
     
  19. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    That stone city was placed on the Stone, and worked the 3-hammer tile. It was at size 1 like forever, but it was effective for its purpose of spamming the early Wonders.

    I went that route because I felt I had the necessary commerce to support it. Also, as IMP I can easily get a third and a fourth city afterwards. I placed it on the stone because it saves lots of worker turns, which means that I didn't need as many workers, which meant that I could build more settlers as IMP.

    Was wondering when someone would HA rush people and win.
     
  20. yanner39

    yanner39 Emperor

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    Before I go forward....:)

    So I researched Guilds at 325BC. It's now 50AD and I have a stack of 14 level 5 Cataphracts on Capac's border (did I wait too long?).

    Looking at the maps of others, there isn't alot of gray on them. I assume this is because you've taken advantage of the capitulation mechanics. In basic terms, what are they?

    I mean, should I seek out the main stack, kill it and then start taking cities? Should I head for the capital, which will probably have the main stack? What will make the AI cap quicker?

    One reason my wars last long is because the AI doesn't seem cap as quickly as some of you.
     

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