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Immortal challenge #16 Iroquois

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by ense7en, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. ense7en

    ense7en n7

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    It's been a while since i've seen one of these, and i mainly wanted to share a rather fun map i rolled recently.

    -All DLC except the scrambled craps DLC
    -Immortal difficulty
    -Pangea
    -Normal everything else

    Starting screenshot:
    Spoiler :


    Minor spoilers:
    Spoiler :
    There are a LOT of unique luxs within your area, not to mention lots of space, allowing for far more cities than normal.


    Major spoilers; do not read till 100+ turns in:
    Spoiler :
    Initial impressions of my start did not thrill me at all, so i went wandering. I think i finally settled on t4 when i found a suitable looking river hill. One turn more and my settler would have been captured by barbs :lol:

    I opened Tradition as usual, since i rarely find Liberty to fit my style on crowded Pangeas.
    But then i realized how much space i had, and how many luxs were around.
    I then went into Liberty as i knew i could put down more than 3-4 cities and wanted the extra hammers building settlers.

    I put down three more cities before NC, so tech rate was off to a rather slow start, but i wanted to lock down my upper area of the landmass before AI got any ideas of stuffing cities by me.

    T89 finally got NC, and also got Oracle. Much later i finally grabbed The Pyramids since no other civ went Liberty lol.
    Settled a couple more cities.

    Poland asked if i wanted to help gangbang Greece. I'd already stolen a worker from Greece at the beginning of the game, so they didn't like me, and i really hate Greece AI as a neighbor, so i said give me 10 turns.
    Poland took one of their cities; i grabbed another + their cap with a very small army (Poland kindly killed a lot of their units for me :D)
    Suileman settled a city right beside Poland (in between us), so i paid Poland off to DoW him too.
    Poland did get GW though, so he may end up being an issue i have to deal with eventually, but for now likely going to stay out of war for a bit to avoid being really hated for warmongering as much as possible (really want to keep lux trade and sales available).


    Major screenshot spoilers; do not read till 100+ turns in:
    Spoiler :
    t89, finally done four-city NC

    t128, slow bpt, i know, but i only have University in cap.
    More than happy with demographics all things considered


     

    Attached Files:

  2. Maxym

    Maxym King

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    Looks interesting, I wish I had time, still working on the England challenge. Might pick this one up later..
     
  3. kb27787

    kb27787 Emperor

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    Accepted... (UA really gonna shine here with all that jungle)
     
  4. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    Is there a preferred VC for this challenge? Domination is currently the only VC that is any type of challenge.

    In other words, what exactly is the challenge? Or is this just a "here's an interesting map" game?
     
  5. ense7en

    ense7en n7

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    Well i'm no pro, so Immortal is often a challenge in itself for me.
    TBH i don't even know what VC i am going for yet, so i don't have a specific VC i'd suggest.
    I'd love to see how others approach this map.
     
  6. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
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    Not sure what the challenge is...
    Just looks like a slow starting map with a boatload of resources. Biggest problem has been growing the cap and keeping in front of the happiness curve. Definitely a slow starter, didn't get ST until T171, and cap is still to small to support the guilds.

    Will be a late victory since no mountains settled, ready to DoW Greece to relieve the boredom and I despise that little boy in his school girl outfit...
     
  7. ense7en

    ense7en n7

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    Where'd you settle? Screenies?
    I am going to go to Fertilizer first most likely as i need help growing my cities.
     
  8. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Damn wtf is that, again another challenge I cannot play due to some DLC I have not.
    I had no problem previously with the saves proposed.

    Did people start to all get some map DLC ?

    If you are going to propose standard maps please deactivate all map DLC (explorers and scrambled).

    May end up buying them seeing how it annoys me :/ Edit: And did (got explorer), 5 bucks isn't a big deal anyway.
     
  9. comatosedragon

    comatosedragon Emperor

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    This sounded like a lot of fun, so I am going to throw my hat into the ring. I was ready to move up to immortal anyway (emperor has become way to easy); and I wanted a game as Iroquois (one of the half-dozen or so civs I have not won a game as yet), so this may kill two birds with one stone. Anyway, this is me at turn 78 [I have not read any of your spoilers yet, with the exception of the very first one]:
    Spoiler :

    I got a TON or ruins starting out : free mining, 2 culture ruins, 2 faith ruins (20&60), a couple of map ruins, and one gold ruin.
    My SP went : Tradition>Free Monument>Monarchy>Landed Elite>Oligarchy>15% Wonders
    My Tech path : Pottery>Mining[FREE]>Animal Husbandry>Writing>Archery>BW>Calendar>Philo. I am now on my way to Civil Service/Education through trapping.

    My NC is going up late, I know -- but after I saw how fast the AI was forward settling on everybody, I prioritized having 3 cities AFAFP.
    My plan now is to build up my military (I feel fairly safe for now with 4 CBs, but I have more on the way). Notice Alex's army to the south? Yeah, that's a little scary, but i am fairly certain he is going for Poland. I hope.
    Anyway, after NC and a few more units, I would like to settle my final city where my westmost scout is, by the solitary mountain, picking up copper and citrus. We'll see how that works out though .....
    Anyway, I am open to any and all suggestions, critiques, or anything else you may wish to share. Thanks!
     
  10. ense7en

    ense7en n7

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    I have all DLC except the new scrambled maps one.

    Spoiler :
    Uh, that's a lot of troops Alex has massed...i'd suggest seeing if it's possible to pay him or Casimir off so they fight each other, as otherwise odds are good he's coming for you (since i'm sure your military might is lower than Poland's...

    In my game i stole a worker from Alex as soon as i could, which might have slowed him down a bit.
    And then when Poland asked if i wanted to join him in war against Alex, i asked for 10 turns, and then the two of us smashed him pretty good.

    That spot for a 4th city looks good.
    You'll see i settled in some maybe somewhat odd spots, so i didn't end up wanting to go there as i already had four cities i was happy with, and then filled in more space with two more. With the Alex's two cities i've gotten 8 cities and i don't really plan to get more unless war dictates it.

     
  11. comatosedragon

    comatosedragon Emperor

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    Spoiler :
    Good advice, thanks! i traded one salt and 4GPT to Poland, and that probably saved me. I got my 4th city up (right where I wanted it ... I like it when things work out), Religion founded, decent army (ranked 6), friendship with Poland (may have been a mistake) by turn 116. I want to continue playing, but the bugs introduced by today's hotfix are really annoying me, and I'm going to bed now instead. I'll pick this up again in the morning.
     
  12. Novalia

    Novalia Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
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    Spoiler :
    I settled three additional cities. E, S, and by the salt. Got the food from camp pantheon early on which helped initial growth but didn't settle the faith mountain until after NC so I am getting religion bombed by everyone. I didnt bother founding one. This is good because all my cities have pagodas and mosques and happiness from temples and shrines. Great prophets and missionaries all over my lands.

    Been friends with Poland all game. Friends with everyone else intermittently with Alex the one jackass. At one point after I was DOWd by Alex I got spy reports from my allies that Persia and Poland were gonna attack so I bribed Poland to attack Persia.

    Fought a relatively defensive war with Alex with a pretty strong military... He really shouldn't have DOWd me as my army was pretty strong.. Go figure. So I pushed him back into his borders and picked him apart while teching artillery. Unfortunately I have to firebomb three cities to get to Athens so my rep is gonna take a hit soon.

    Only wonder I went for was porcelain tower as my RAs have been fairly constant since education.

    After Alex goes down I'll have to see how the world reacts before contemplating my next moves.

    I like this map.. But it's a slow burner for me.
     
  13. kb27787

    kb27787 Emperor

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    :lol: My plan failed... almost...

    Well, well, well might as well move my settler a little bit... oh? what do we have here? salt? ooh better get closer... Warrior has evolved into Pikeman! Pikeman spots a holy mountain! (this game is just begging to be HG + Petra with all those tasty desert hills... but what fun would that be)
    Spoiler :


    Fast forward a little bit... uh oh... do you think I'm.... of course I am! ICS sacred sites attempt on immortal!!! This will be my first ever time opening the liberty tree on anything higher than emperor :lol:
    Spoiler :


    Time to abuse that UU of mine... my neighbors obviously did not enjoy my city spam... war is imminent.
    Spoiler :


    In the meantime, sacred sites has been secured without any problems (the only other piety was Willy)
    Spoiler :


    Trounced both Suleiman and Alex's pathetic attack forces in the wide jungle space (who happened to DoW me the same time) Alex forked over gpt while Sully gave me Ankara in a peace settlement.. meanwhile I am running out of space and my faith is skyrocketing.
    Spoiler :


    FAST way forward... I settled pretty much every location I could... but it seems I cannot catch both Persia and Poland... (I can maybe catch one with a GM streak but I cant catch both) game is looking unwinnable.
    Spoiler :


    I got lucky and picked up 12 artifacts in my lands and put them in museums... also purposely delayed adopting an ideology just to avoid diplo complications but eventually I had to...
    Persia is running away with culture and Poland just finished off Alex and Sully, taking all their artifacts for himself... things looked desperate... nonetheless right before then Willy came to my rescue with international games (my only chance)... all or nothing I used the GA I saved up, put my cities on production focus, bought factories in my largest cities and won with 2300 hammers in 8 turns.... SIX! faith bought musicians (had over 17k faith banked) and one from liberty finisher (lol) later....
    Spoiler :


    Now I took autocracy to appease Poland and behold the cheeky finish....
    Spoiler :


    Rush bought 2 GA with faith, giving me 500 tourism, ending the game before my last great musician (who spawned naturally from my cap) could reach Casimir (and hence shaving a few turns off my pathetic finish time) nonetheless... VICTORY! Immortal ICS CV!!!! :lol:
    Spoiler :
     
  14. Novalia

    Novalia Prince

    Joined:
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    Spoiler :
    moving forward in my game i researched biology pretty quickly after taking two greek cities and saw that i had no oil... instead of risking the wrath of the warmonger tag i made peace with alex, changed gears and "rushed" towards a science victory.. to say rush is laughable... yes i had the tech lead but the production in all of my cities was so terrible that spaceship parts took forever to build...
    jungles.... double edged sword.

    i got my ideology very late as i was busy building/upgrading units instead of making factories or getting into the right era... so i was fifth to an ideology.. order and autocracy were split... so i said screw it and took freedom... so i took 25% GP and half food for specialists.. then happy specialists... that was a big happiness hit as my culture was absolutely atrocious.. -29 happiness it cost me from revolutionaries so at -8 i had to waste a bunch of turns building happy buildings and wheel and deal... had no CS allies with no potential...

    ultimately it all worked out... sandwiched between the combatants and pitting them against each other resulted in no DOWs on me, no denouncements, and a great wasteland of nuclear fallout to the west.. i ultimately finished the game by buying the final two spaceship parts with the freedom policy otherwise it would have added another 15 turns..

    i nuked poland on the last turn for kicks.. he was a good friend all game... running his troops and missionaries back and forth thru my land.. i had to move all my dudes north to give him some space.. he's ***** at war tho.. he had like 12 units including 4 artillery, a couple of AA, horses (which he mistakes for battering rams) to take the persian city to the east of me and he utterly failed constantly shooting at random units instead of the city.. all the while persia is busy fighting the cs instead of defending his city.. horror show.

    launched on turn 348.
    Spoiler :


     
  15. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

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    lol, glad I saw your post, was about to restart a new game since this one is not interesting enough to finish.

    Spoiler :
    my bpt is fine for the turn number. Edu came pretty late ~T125, I am presently researching electricity, and considering bulbing Radio with Oxford, but I think I have enough RA's active that I can bulb plastics with Oxford instead. No mountains, low pop, and low production will mean a 300 turn game. /shrug
    I have a diplo bug with the Ottomans. I purchased the salt near Ankara and told him my affairs are none of his business when he complained 20 turns later. About 35 turns after that he came back complaining that I failed to keep my promise to not buy any lands when I did not promise, and I also did not buy anymore land.

    I settled with an eye for hill/rivers and to maximize getting all the lux's in my corner. Had to buy a fair number of tiles and play blockade with Greece, Ottomans, and Poland to keep them from settling in my region. Lots of resource diversity means they are all sending TR's into my empire. Early game this was quite a lot of beakers and let me easily make up for having to grab trapping and BW early.

    I suppose I can just make a save game and come back to this later - but it will just be another SV. Currently more interested in domination or culture, and more interested in playing Inca

    EDIT: I went full tradition, decided to skip the Oracle and went right into rationalism because my pop and cpt is too low to waste policies before secularism. I also entered the renaissance via printing press and got WC host.

    Spoiler :


     
  16. ense7en

    ense7en n7

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    I am really slow playing this game, and don't always have the time i'd like to play.

    I'm still playing this game actually, just couldn't look at people's spoilers as i wasn't that far and didn't want to spoil anything for myself.

    I've been on cruise control for a long time now, at t278 and going to win via science barring miracles.

    Spoiler :
    Poland backstabbed me right as i was working on Apollo Project which was annoying, so i pushed them back a bit and made peace as i really don't care to be in war.
    If they try attacking again i have nukes now and will annihilate them for their idiocy.

    I forgot i had so much faith i'd been saving, so i am going to be bulbing the last 10+ techs and will have excess still...the real time sink is going to be building the damn parts since i never finished Tradition, so no faith bought engies to rush the parts with.
     
  17. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    I won a SV on t295. I built 5 cities instead of your 6, with the exception being that I built in the mountains to the east of the capital, thereby allowing border expansion to claim the northernmost luxuries on the eastern side of the capital. I had no problem with population (with the help of caravans) - all my cities eventually hit 20. I was in control all the way, with Order being the universal choice this game, and warring with Poland early (for a settler, gained a payoff), Ottomans (sold one of their cities) and later Greece (sold one city, kept two, giving me seven near the end).
     
  18. ense7en

    ense7en n7

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    Won via science victory t290.
    Wow do the parts ever take long without Freedom's policy to buy them!

    RAs are such a waste of time. I signed a few before i got tired of having to pay the AI to get so few beakers in return, and this even with the 50% boost from Rationalism.

    I got pretty insanely ahead in tech and was well ahead in production as well, so winning the World Fair and International Games was easy.

    I didn't really build many wonders as none of my cities were really amazing on their own for hammers. Athens (Greece's former cap) actually ended up being my best city for hammers, but it took a while for me to grow it there.

    Having more cities than usual was nice for science...was so close to hitting 2000bpt, and i probably could have if i put all cities to Research.
    Not finishing Tradition made growth annoyingly slow.
    I think i would have actually been far better off not worrying about finishing Rationalism and instead finishing Tradition as the extra growth would have paid for itself far better than some of the more useless Rationalism policies i think.
    I did rather like being able to time the free tech from Rationalism to take Plastics though.

    I really dislike how you do everything possible to be friendly with everyone all game long, as soon as it comes time for Ideologies, your best buddies are going to hate you if they want to pick something different.
    Let's not think about how we've been great friends all game long, nope...we're now going to find reasons to hate you primarily around this one choice. So ********.

    Screenshots!

    homeland
    Spoiler :



    t279 max science output before switching to production focus for the parts building
    Spoiler :


    demographics
    Spoiler :


    social policies
    Spoiler :

    Opened Tradition and Patronage. Liberty filled out. Rationalism finished with some Tradition thrown in. And then lots of Order!



    tech tree
    Spoiler :

    I way overshot. Should have started bulbing MANY turns before, and i didn't even get Oxford built since there was no point. So if i hadn't messed up so badly, i likely would have been done at least 10+ turns earlier, ah well...
     
  19. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    The lesson for me here is how big you got all your cities - especially if you didn't finish Tradition (why not?). I didn't come close to 2000 bpt - more like 1200. I also went Order instead of Freedom, which probably helped. But I disagree about RA's. My minority opinion is that they suck, but still shave turns off. If you have the gold, why not use them? Excess gold, especially late in the game, won't get you any more science.
     

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