Immortal Challenge 8: Songhai, Pangaea

nanomage

Longbowman
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
710
Location
msk, rf
Hello friends.

It's been a long while since the IC7, a water map with Ottomans, so please let me present the new IC.
We will be playing as "the scary black guy with a sword in front of the burning world", or Askia of Songhai. Not quite Shaka, but rather alike. I was always wondering if it isn't dangerous to carry your sword like that.
Our map is standard-sized Pangaea, with standard number of oppenents/city-states and random everything else.

Spoiler :

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Our land units have double defensive strength and +1 sight in embarked mode, and melee land units gain the Amphibious promotion. Would be interesting to learn how this stacks with marines' promotions, but I doubt anyone would build marines as Askia on Pangaea.
Also we gain 3 times the usual amount of :c5gold: for pillaging cities and barb camps.
Instead of temples, we pray in Mud Pyramid Mosques, which cost no maintenance and offer +2 :c5culture: on top of temple's usual +2 :c5faith:. Availiable through Legalism.
Instead of knights, we build a unit named Mandekalu Cavalry. It is 10 :c5production: (or 20 :c5faith:) cheaper and has no penalty attacking cities. Our leader's bonuses add to that, making it essentially into a conquistador.

Here's our start, I think it's pretty good as starts go
Spoiler :

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Link to the previous IC7:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=496692

Good luck and have fun!

EDIT: I've noticed I made a mistake when posting the thread and named it IC7 instead of 8. I've already reported it to the mods, so don't bother about that, I hope they'll get it fixed.
Moderator Action: -> fixed it.
 

Attachments

Thx for posting a new challenge.

Will first finish your EC. Start seems very nice though.

Quick question, you roll the maps and leave them be or do you edit?
 
Spoiler :
This was a pretty fun IC. I got a turn 298 science victory. I started out by going liberty and building the pyramids, but they finished late (turn 50) because I didn't have a worker while building them. After the pyramids, I was able to expand, and I allied Milan, which allowed me to get my GE from liberty very early for petra in my second city near mt sinai. That city became my main production city, while my other cities fell behind. After building petra, I conquered Spain with composites/xbows. I annexed Madrid later for more science. Siam was my only rival scientifically, but my usage of great scientists allowed me to surpass them. I planned on nuking them, but I had no uranium, nor did anyone else except for belgrade, Siam's ally. I took a long time to build the spaceship parts because my petra city was the only one that could make a part quickly. It took four turns there, but my capital and other cities took over 10 turns. Four out of the six parts were made in my petra city, which was the only one with a spaceship factory (free from Hubble). Overall this was not a hard map because of the lack of aggressive neighbors and nice terrain.

Edit: added spoiler
 
@Hieschen. I dislike editing maps. I remember rolling a nice map for one of the series of games for Civ IV, and then I replaced a docile AI with a much more agressive one to make it harder. This didn't work out good.
@msawchuk, thank you for participating, and your input is apreciated. However, could you please wrap the map specific details in spoilers, especialy on the first page of the thread.
 
@Hieschen. I dislike editing maps. I remember rolling a nice map for one of the series of games for Civ IV, and then I replaced a docile AI with a much more agressive one to make it harder. This didn't work out good.
@msawchuk, thank you for participating, and your input is apreciated. However, could you please wrap the map specific details in spoilers, especialy on the first page of the thread.

It's changed now. I'm sorry about that. This is my first post in an IC.
 
@msawchuk
Spoiler :

Did you do anything to Ramk to slow him down? In my game he was a total runaway, he ate up half of the mainland, allied all of the CS and attacked me in 250sh. I couldn't really push back because he had a massive horde of bombers and unending supplies of marines, so I only captured a city of his and killed two his CS's. Didn't help, he still got 14 votes on 292. If not for that, I would have launched 300-310, probably too late because he had the entire tech tree cleared, too.
Runaway Ramk was actually the reason I believed this map to be interesting, would be great to see how others might deal with him. I couldn't because I made too many mistakes and spent too many turns conquering Izzy.
 
Played the first 50 turns. Settled in place.

Spoiler :
Isabella very aggressive, a lot of troops running around. Settled 2nd city in her face on a weakish position defensive wise (on the river to the east of cap with cows and gold)

Hard building 3rd settler. Will then start spamming some archers. Allied Geneva, so this will help getting a religion up and running and i am dispatching my warrior and an archer to Milan quest to get some culture.
Went Liberty as there are a lot of nice spots to settle on. Took settler path. Chose liberty because i am planning petra to the north and will settle that city kinda late and rush with liberty GE (that is at least the plan for now :D)
Discovered Siam / China / Celts
Cap: Monument > Scout > Shrine > Worker > Library
 
I've played ~160 turns so far. Interesting game so far.

Spoiler :

Siam is the big "runaway" in my game. He have been wonder spamming big time, however he is not ahead in tech. I'm 2 techs behind Dido on turn 160 (about to hit industrial and public schools).

I settled on the incense and researched pottery and calendar first. I managed to grab the second pantheon and got religious idols (+1 culture and faith from gold and silver). DF would probably have been better. I settled my second city by Mt. Kailish, and I got the first religion because of that.
I went liberty due to the isolated start. A culture-ruin by turn 11 speeded up the opening a bit. I went 4 city, NC while beating up Spain. I took Madrid by turn 100 and NC two turns later. Universities on turn 125. I rushed Petra with the liberty GE in my Mt. Kailish city, and the city is now my best production city.
Siam and the Celts decided to DOW me on ~turn 145. I defended easily (lost a single cbow). I've now upgraded my cbows to xbows, added a couple of trebuchets and mande cavs. The first Siamese city has fallen, but the elephants are kinda of a pain to deal with.
Spoiler :

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I've played 116 turns:

Spoiler :
Moved twice and settled the Gold hill near the mountains. Settler 2 went to Gold on the East side of the mountain range and Settler 3 went to Gold hill in the desert. 2 and 3 take turns working Sinai. I took Barcelona and Madrid by around Turn 85, for Puppets 4 and 5. I had to let a Settler escape just to keep from eradicating Spain and getting the diplo penalty. I went full Tradition so when I found my next city it is going to hit the ground running.

I got the third Pantheon, bust first Religion and Enhancement. I'm cranking over 50 faith a Turn with Geneva, Desert Folklore, Mud Mosques, Monasteries and Cathedrals. I should shortly reach a point where I will be able to found a city, next turn it'll go Buddhist and then I'll faith away the Happiness hit. I'm trying to World Church my way to a Cultural Victory so I'll start dropping pressure cities soon. Once everyone is Buddhist no one will want to conquer the world and we can all just live in peace.

Siam is in the lead and I'm floating right behind him, with a Triangle DoF with him and Austria. Everybody but Spain loves me and is paying top dollar for my Gold. Everybody but me hates Montezuma.

My biggest misstep has been beelining Crossbows when I had plenty of cushion to beeline Education instead. So my NC didn't go up until Turn 107 and Education probably won't hit until Turn 140. I do have a heavily promoted 6 Crossbow army that is doing a pretty good job of making people leave me the heck alone.
 
I've played 116 turns:

Spoiler :
Moved twice and settled the Gold hill near the mountains. Settler 2 went to Gold on the East side of the mountain range and Settler 3 went to Gold hill in the desert. 2 and 3 take turns working Sinai. I took Barcelona and Madrid by around Turn 85, for Puppets 4 and 5. I had to let a Settler escape just to keep from eradicating Spain and getting the diplo penalty. I went full Tradition so when I found my next city it is going to hit the ground running.

I got the third Pantheon, bust first Religion and Enhancement. I'm cranking over 50 faith a Turn with Geneva, Desert Folklore, Mud Mosques, Monasteries and Cathedrals. I should shortly reach a point where I will be able to found a city, next turn it'll go Buddhist and then I'll faith away the Happiness hit. I'm trying to World Church my way to a Cultural Victory so I'll start dropping pressure cities soon. Once everyone is Buddhist no one will want to conquer the world and we can all just live in peace.

Siam is in the lead and I'm floating right behind him, with a Triangle DoF with him and Austria. Everybody but Spain loves me and is paying top dollar for my Gold. Everybody but me hates Montezuma.

My biggest misstep has been beelining Crossbows when I had plenty of cushion to beeline Education instead. So my NC didn't go up until Turn 107 and Education probably won't hit until Turn 140. I do have a heavily promoted 6 Crossbow army that is doing a pretty good job of making people leave me the heck alone.
@casualplayer do you mean you belined Machinery before Philosophy?
 
@casualplayer do you mean you belined Machinery before Philosophy?

Yep.

Spoiler :
Even with a DoF I wasn't convinced that Siam would stay put so I wanted an effective welcoming party, but he stayed put. He hasn't dropped a city north of Jakarta yet. So I've got a bunch of Crossbowmen, leveled up on Barbs and Spain, at the pinch point on the Pangaea fencing off my ridiculously large area for expansion. If I avoid sharing a border I think I can keep Siam Friendly.

I don't have the largest army but I'm also far from the smallest so there are always more tempting targets. Boudicca and Montezuma are very willing to go to war for cheap, less than 300 net gold, so I'm keeping them busy.

Like I expected, Education at Turn 138 and buy-buy-build I had my Universities up and staffed 8 Turns later. Not horrible in a Culture game. I've reached the point where a new Buddhist city with a quick Monastery/staffed Cathedral/Mud Mosque provides a net gain on Culture over the increase in Policy costs so I'm starting to ramp up. Machu Picchu is keeping new cities from being money pits. If Sistine Chapel doesn't get swiped from me I should be golden.

I've got to learn how to post screenshots. Whenever I print screen and paste it over to Word I just get a big black rectangle.
 
Update, now T100

Spoiler :
Strategy with desert city down the drain, Petra went T92 (that seems really early, someone has an input on this?) I finished liberty tree T100, currency researched, could have settled by T110 near Kailash and instantly built Petra, which generally is sound.

Spain dowed me, but was waiting for it. Crushed the army, now paying her a visit. Will try to take Madrid and leave her be. Hope she has another city somewhere, did not find any for the moment.

Had some problems with happiness, ftm under control. Will have to look into this if i want to settle 2 more cities.

NC is up, i may now finish Oracle in 8 turns, get HS and enhance. Got my religion around T85, chose Tithe and Pagodas.

Plan for next 50 turns, enhance, get universities, get rid of Spain, settle another 2 cities.



Screenshot:
Spoiler :

 
Update, now T100

Spoiler :
Strategy with desert city down the drain, Petra went T92 (that seems really early, someone has an input on this?) I finished liberty tree T100, currency researched, could have settled by T110 near Kailash and instantly built Petra, which generally is sound.

Spoiler :
That sounds about right. If the AI has a desert capital, Petra can be gone by turn 70. If they don't, then it can be gone at 170...
 
Spoiler :
I'm at around turn 150.. Computer decided to install windows upgrades and shut me down..

Went with two cities tradition and finished NC around turn 85.. Education around 110.. Astronomy around 120.. Built second city near faith wonder and a third by the river gold and citrus.. They're all growing so well that happiness is my biggest battle.. Will probably build another city west of cap by the gold to take advantage of the mountain. Three unis up and two observatories. Crushing the AI in science. Have four friends but holding off on RAs until they hit renaissance to save some gold.

Went with DF, ceremonial burial, pagodas, happy shrines, IP. Have pagodas in all cities and religion is enhanced.

Just got thru a war where Spain DOWd me. Repelled them and marched on Madrid with my meager force of 5-7 composites, one warrior and one horse. Killed most of their units but they threw up a castle and my guys were getting wrecked so I made peace for some gold. Now we're best friends.

Two deep into rationalism with one in patronage. Halfway thru finishing oracle. Only wonder I've attempted.

Friends with Siam, Spain, Carthage, Austria. Saving gold for RAs.

Next build cycle will be markets etc. hard built all unis and observatories due to lack of funds. Beelining scientific theory.

Hopefully keep the peace before publics schools are up.
 
@Hieschen
Spoiler :


None of AIs have petra-eligible capitals on this map iirc. For the second city, this does seem kinda early. To be honest, I don't remember when I built Petra in the Sinai city, is there a way to learn it from the final save?


EDIT: btw, if you friends want the next IC hard, just let me know - I have a nightmarish Korean tundra start on Shuffle.
 
Spoiler :
Amusing. I dropped a city near Celts so that I would have a buy spot for Cannon. They converted it to Christianity, which lets me buy Cannon with faith. I'm making 140 faith a turn! The turn after Dynamite hits Edinburgh will be mine and then I think I'll carve off a portion of Siam.

This won't be a record finish but that's not really my thing anyway.

For Petra spots how about the triple Oasis, quadruple Salt spot NW of Edinburgh? Holy smokes.
 
@Hieschen
Spoiler :


None of AIs have petra-eligible capitals on this map iirc. For the second city, this does seem kinda early. To be honest, I don't remember when I built Petra in the Sinai city, is there a way to learn it from the final save?


EDIT: btw, if you friends want the next IC hard, just let me know - I have a nightmarish Korean tundra start on Shuffle.

Why not? Even though should the next not be an Emperor challenge?

Will finish this one this WE
 
Spoiler :
well it wasnt exactly a glorious victory.. turn 295 science..
poor economy pretty much sabotaged speed as i had to hard build every science building.. should have settled that other city west of cap
on river as i had planned.. pop in capital turned out to be pretty crappy considering the start i had..
too much focus on the jungle and gold tiles..

had to use diplomacy and spies just to get the victory.. spies to snag the maritime CSs for when i want to build parts and i got the AI to
war each other most importantly the celts and siam.. siam was planning to torch me with his nukes as i was researching the final part
tech but i signed another RA and kept selling him all my crap so i suppose that stalled him besides the massive war i got him into some
30 turns back..

just happy i got the win.. a DOW from siam and i'd likely have been toast..

on reflection i would have gone more offensive early on and finished off spain myself.. although that might not have helped as it would
have put me closer to siam and likely caused earlier friction.. probably the only real way for me to make it faster would have been earlier
focus on economy which would have allowed me to build a stronger army instead of constantly building science buildings..

ended up totally trouncing the AI in science beating average by 20%.. this is what ultimately allowed victory along with the AI grouped
up so tight they were always fighting..

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