[Immortal] Do I still have a shot?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by OmniPotent42, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

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    Hey, it's been a while since I've posted on this forum.

    Anyways, I'm in this immortal game as Germany on a huge map. During the Modern and Atomic Era, I decided to forgo my science lead and do some conquering, and with the help of an artillery rush accompanied by calvary and eventually Panzers, I was able to take some good cities from Korea and Egypt. I was forced to take autocracy as my ideology as my culture output has been pretty abysmal.

    Anyways, I'm refocusing on a science VC and I'm a good 5% away from Hiawatha's tech level. I'm researching the Apollo program tech right now. But is this a winnable position?
     
  2. claudiupb

    claudiupb King

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    You are 5% behind or ahead? Either way, it would greatly help if you conquered his capital.
    It also depends on how many Great Scientists you have, and how many can you spawn. If you gp counter is too high then it's tricky. How far are you into rationalism? Also if you have puppets annex them and fill the scientists slots.
     
  3. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

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    I'm 5% behind him. Also I have all of rationalism filled out because I didn't have any coal for factories. I'm outputting like 800 science a turn. My great person counter is pretty high and I've used my faith to buy like 3 scientists.

    Conquering his capital seems near impossible. I have no good production cities on the coast, and he's a continent away with an inland capital. I would have to invest a LOT in an attack, and he's buddies with Washington on my continent who I feel may backstab me if I send a large force oversees.
     
  4. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

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    My other concern is that Hiawatha is getting pretty scary culturally. He's already at like 30% infuential with most civs. Is the AI smart enough to beeline internet and all of the tourism benefits?
     
  5. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    No, but if seeking a cultural victory, its flavors for those will increase over what it normally is for that civ.

    Also, for cultural victory, average value against most civs is not a meaningful stat, what matters is what percentage does he have over the civ he has the LEAST influence over.
     
  6. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

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    I think it's around 30% of the Inca which is the lowest.
     
  7. claudiupb

    claudiupb King

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    Get the Hubble for the scientists and get nukes with x-com, they are both on the path to SV. If the AI is going for a CV and Inca are the ones that are going to flip last, maybe a war between them can help slow things down, it means no open borders nor trade route bonus for tourism. But be careful not to break the balance and create a monster civ.
    In the mean time try stealing some techs from Hiawatha, it's the only science advantage that autocracy gives. If you can flip, flip to order for the GE and GS.
     
  8. fyar

    fyar Prince

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    I assume that you've already expended all of your scientists and free techs then? If you're 5% behind without any immediate sources of beakers remaining, then you're in trouble. Have you built Oxford yet?

    If Hubble hasn't been built yet, I would finish Rocketry, use Oxford to nab Satellites, and build Hubble with your best production city. Use an engineer if you have one available, even if you have to buy one with faith. Hubble and research agreements are your best chance to catch up on that 5%. If Hubble is already off the board, then you're probably in trouble.

    Try to isolate Hiawatha diplomatically. Pay him to DoW other AIs, or pay other AIs to DoW him. Pay Washington whatever it takes to DoW Hiawatha. You need to cancel all of Hiawatha's research agreements, and sign as many of your own as possible. The problem is, Hiawatha may actually win those wars if he has a huge tech lead. You might have to join in on those wars just to keep Hiawatha in check.

    If you have to go to war with Hiawatha, nukes might be the most efficient way to deal with him.
     
  9. beetle

    beetle Deity GOTM Staff

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    I think you are fine. 5% behind is nothing, even without GS and Ratty finisher use. But I agree that Hubble could make or break you.

    My usual MO is that I start on SS parts well behind my AI competition, maybe all 3 boosters behind, but I build smarter so I can catch up. That MO includes some GS bulbs though...

    Work the tech tree planning so that you can have SS factories in 3 to 5 high production cities. Do not build SS part in any city that does not have the SS factory. So Robotics before Ballistics.

    Okay, that is a killer! Can you do a trade deal to get some? I don’t think you can win SV without factories, as the parts just take too long to build. I don’t usually start on parts until I have nuke and solar plants built! How is your access to aluminum? You need eight (securely and, unlike coal, for whole game) for four SS plants plus four parts being built at once. Hubble means you only need 7 AL.

    Agreed. I only get an SV maybe one in five tries if an AI beats me to Hubble.

    If you can pay Hiawatha to DoW Washington, that would be better. You can pay more for that as you can afford to DoW Hiawatha (to cancel the DoW bribe), but DoWing Washington (to get out of a trade) leaves you at war with a neighbor.

    The nice thing with nukes is that they will wreck his economy even if you do not take cities. I also find I can work nukes into the queue without delaying SS parts.
     
  10. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

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    I used some tips in this thread to squeeze in a win. I will admit, however, that I did have to reload once in the endgame becuse I forgot to attack with my XCOM squads, but it was a close one, I'll tell you that.

    Hiawatha had a GIANT empire, and was making over 4000 BPT. I did snag Hubble Telescope which helped me get to the late game techs, the only difference from my usual route is that I got nanotechnology first out of the spaceship part techs, to start building up for plan B if I couldn't win without interfering. I paid him to DoW Denmark, and they exchanged nuclear blasts to each others' capitals.

    Anyways, a few turns before I have my last spaceship part done, I send a giant XCOM sheet of doom from my midway islands over to Hiawatha's capital. I pillaged all the roads I could, and the next turn I destroyed the last SS booster part he needed! :D

    He immediately started building another one in his capital, but he was one turn behind MY last part. I feel a bit dirty that I went back a few turns, but overall it was a very interesting scenario that I've never had happen before.
     
  11. beetle

    beetle Deity GOTM Staff

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    ^^ Thanks for following up, sounds like a fun game! Destroying parts in transit is satisfying, but the opportunity to look for (and I have only pulled it off once) is to surround the part with your units so it cannot be moved. If you have OB, you can do this during peace. Destroying the part let Hiawatha rebuild in his cap. If you just trapped it, you have been more leisurely pillaging his lands!
     
  12. fyar

    fyar Prince

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    Congrats Omni! Quite the dramatic finish, glad to hear about it!
     
  13. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

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    Good point! The only problem I can think of was that he had a TON of workers everywhere, meaning I couldn't land my XCOM squads in a perfect surround if workers were in the way. That's good to know for future cheesy wins though! :goodjob:
     
  14. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

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    I actually didn't feel that bad without factories, because I was Germany and had Hanses. I don't think this building gets enough credit. In the early game it's usually nothing more than a bank, but in the late game with 9 trade routes it's the largest production modifier on your cities you'll ever have! (45%). The only downside is that you can't have trade routes with other civs to get the production bonus - but with germany's UA that isn't really too bad.
     

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