Discussion in 'Civ4 - Stories & Tales' started by axident, Aug 27, 2007.
@ posters above: thanks, I will be posting more of these but it takes quite a while to do write-ups!
Thanks a lot for great reading! The pot piece about cool boats is absolutely brilliant I like Pratchett's style mixed with CIV - almost as good as boiled clams
As for the game, highest as I went was Emperor, so I don't know about Immortal, I just wouldn't bare unworked plain hills gold mine, also my second city would be propably east of capital, on plain hills, having clams, fish, pigs and lot of coastline looks yummy. And really, I'd wait those 2 turns for city pop before all these settler rush
Way to go, great stuff, I'll be waiting for more.
Thanks, some Real Life stuff is keeping me from updating for now but I will soon! This is only my 2nd Immortal game ever so I made a lot of mistakes. But, that made for a more interesting game in the end... if I played perfectly I think I could handle Deity, but right now I have my hands full on Immortal!
very interesting thread, I really like all those SS's telling a story then the write-up. I'll be surprised if the oracle isn't already built before you can finish it or gain access to marble, I notce you haven't started till 1400BC - that's late for oracle imo, but if you do manage to pull it off all the power to you.
I would have kept that worker you moved down to build the quarry to stay there and chop, becuase you won't need the marble untill you decide to start building the Parth/ToA.
When you complete the oracle, I would get asthetics as a free tech and start on those marble wonders asap. I would get ToA and Great Library in Amsterdam, and the parthenon in Utrech (the +10 culture is great for pushing your borders further, and you obviously dont want any Great Artist pollution in Amsterdam). I suppose if you goal in this game is steal tech via spying then having GPriest points is pollution, but never doubt the power of a settled priest, the +2 Hammers, and +5 Gold is amazing early on for Rexing and you keep that bonus the whole game.
If I were playing that map, my big dilema would be wheither to mass chop and get the pyramids, then settle every great Priest/engineer in your Capital and build the Great Lib, and ToA. I often find I'm running 6-8 Super Specialists in my Cap (like obselete), and the +3 beakers from Rep early on is amazing too. But you can't get everything I suppose (tho It's very rare that I don't build the Pyramids and Great Libi). I've won a fair number of Immortal games that way but usually with an Industrious Civ (I love inca, but fin+ind is so powerfull its almost cheating).
Great work !
Hope to read more soon. I'm enjoying this thread.
Keep it going and damn nice capital. Agree on the city to the right with pigs and 2 sea food. Bring on the Maoi Statues.
Real Life continues to clobber me, I'll try to update this weekend though.
There isn't any way to get both seafood + pigs in an eastern city, if you look at the screenshots. Believe me, I was all set to do so if there were a way. The best one could do would be to get pigs and fish, or fish and clams (and intrude on the capital's fat cross), but in any case, the city would be in a corner which isn't so great as a REX city because it'll already be blocked off when there's enough culture from other cities nearby.
EDIT: actually I remember now, the reason was that I didn't want the tile overlap and I was trying to REX towards others, not into a corner. Sorry for the confusion!!
Of course it is, on a plain hills tile next to the coastline. Granted, three tile overlap with capital, but it's on a hills, coastal with 90-100% coast tiles, with three food resources. Two desert tiles, but still, looks like a nice city to me
And yeah, please do update, Flozemaker's threads were fun but I've finished and I hunger for more
Oops you're right. I haven't played civ at all for something like 2 weeks, my memory was hazy. The kicker is that I never did settle that city for the ENTIRE GAME haha. It just kept getting pushed to the bottom of the agenda due to pressing concerns elsewhere + fear of maintenance.
Holy cow, I was going to post a big update when I realized something.. I don't know how to break this to you guys, but I accidentally (no puns please) deleted every single one of my screenshots a few days ago when I was trying to free up some space on my hard drive.
I had subdirectories within my screenshots folder for the Wonderspam and Immortal Dutch Domination games, but they are all vaporized now because I meant to delete all my s/s that weren't in the subdirectories, but I apparently deleted the subdirectories along with everything else! And no it's not in the recycling bin, because I emptied it the other day thinking that it was safe to do so. I still have all my saves and the replay, but that's all I have.
So the dilemma is, do I a) replay the rest of the game starting with the save that corresponds with the last screenshot, do I b) try to load all the saves and just post the maps without all the arrows and battles and trade menus and stuff (I was almost literally always at war), or c) do I restart the game and this thread, maybe even with a whole new world so I don't know what it looks like?
a) has a fun aspect to it in that I can play sets of rounds and you guys can have input... and who knows, maybe in this alternate universe, I get dogpiled and lose early or something?!
b) tedious for me to do this but it's truer to real play since I had no idea what the map looked like, etc. Not that I would play utilizing that knowledge but still...
This REALLY SUCKS ARGH. Because (spoiler!) I had all sorts of fun things happen this game, like a rival coming over with a HUGE naval stack in a sneak attack that I thwarted by sending my workers to quickly build a railroad towards the coast, so that an army that I was massing to attack another civ, managed to retreat back to my coast. I even built a nuke for the first time ever in civ4, but I never got a chance to use it. And the battles in this game were truly epic; this was by far the most fun game I had ever played in civ4.
Hm, if You're leaning towards a, be that Your way. As long as it will provide excellent reading I don't mind even mixing events from game You've played and the one You mean to replay
Just more pottery please
Well I'm open to all suggestions--would you guys mind if I "replayed" the same map/same game? I just checked and it looks like I rarely if ever saved in this game, the date is 1160 BC but I only have saves at 4000 BC, 275 BC, and 400 AD. Would anyone mind if I took the game up starting with 275 BC and explained what happened between 1160 BC and 275 BC via the event log? I know that sounds like a lot of time, but turns in the BC era go by quickly... else it's 4000 BC which is even worse since that eliminates the entire first page of this thread.
Suggestions? I've already begun to replay the game starting in 275 BC... it felt really weird at first as my sense of timing was all messed up, but the short story from 1160 BC to 275 BC is:
I won Oracle much to my surprise--I wanted the gold from it if I didn't get it. Instead of CoL I took Metal Casting, as I wanted someone ELSE to found Confu and hopefully start a religious war with someone not named Willem. I got greedy going for forge->ToA and missed ToA by a couple of turns, which was a heavy blow. I started building Colossus as a consolation prize. That's basically the story up to 275 BC. That and I explored a bit more and REX'd south and west. No wars yet because a side effect of my REXing is that few others seem to have much in the way of metals, though Inca has ivory and Construction....
I will elaborate in a more formal post later.
"Dictator van Oranje."
"Dictator van Oranje!"
"Willem van Winkle! Wake up! It's me, Christiaan!"
"Huh? What? What year is it? Who is van Winkle?"
"It's 275 BCE."
"Before Common Era. Same thing as BC. As for BC, don't ask, because Theology and Christianity haven't been discovered yet."
"Um, okay. Say, wasn't it some other millennium when we last spoke?"
"Yes, and much has transpired!"
"Well for starters, we settled near the copper and gems. But we found a river, and as Dutch dike-lovers, we pursued that river all the way to the coast, where we found some more gold. We settled that soon after."
"Excellent! Go on...."
"We also scouted west and ran into the Native Americans. Even as we speak, a group of settlers is already almost there to claim that land and thwart Native American expansion. However, we need to backfill the gap between that city and Amsterdam to completely halt their advance towards us. As expected, the desert in that region has made our territory less attractive and given us time to do these land-grabs relatively late."
"What about the other rivals?"
"Ah, well. We did win the Oracle, powered by marble. In the hopes of fomenting religious strife, we took Metal Casting instead of Code of Laws from the divine images of the Oracle. Then we got greedy and tried to build a forge in Amsterdam followed by the Temple of Artemis, rather than the Temple first. Capac of the Incas, to the southwest, stole the Temple from under our noses when we were nearly done with it."
"We did get a big production bonus from marble, and the consolation prize of gold was decent, but yes, that wonder would have helped our economy immensely. Anyway, the Koreans are apparently south, beyond an isthmus controlled by some Scythian savages."
"Since we had a monopoly on Metal Casting and some copper, we decided to build the Colossus to encourage a great merchant to step up. It also helps boost our sea trading and tax revenues."
"I believe we also traded some crappy technology away for Archery around the time that we researched Alphabet, which allowed us for the first time to trade technology at all. Also, in 600 BC Ethel Rosenberg was born, and we sent her off to our most advanced rival, Inca, to spy. Later we researched or traded for Monotheism and Meditation to allow us to go for Code of Laws and courthouses more cheaply. By that time, Wang Konstipated had founded Confucianism, which is excellent because our continent has heavily divided religious loyalties now. The Native Americans are Jewish, and the Incans are Hindus."
"What are we?"
"In order to keep the peace with our biggest neighbor, he of the nasty Dog Soldiers, we switched to Judaism, but we should probably switch to Hinduism if Capac, he of the wonder-hogging, gets to Theology first--and he's getting close, according to our spies. If he gets to Theology first, he will have a head start on everyone else to build the Apolostic Palace, not that he needs the head start since he's Industrious anyway. If we switch to the Palace religion of Hinduism before it's built, all of our Hindu religious buildings will make our population more productive. If we switch after the Palace is built, sometimes odd things happen, and only some of our Hindu buildings would make our population more productive. I am not sure what the mechanism is. I just know that it's better to switch before the Palace is actually built."
"Can we switch without anarchy? When are we going to enter a golden age anyway?"
"Um, well..." Christiaan looks embarrassed. "What's one plus one, Willem?"
"That's the problem. We do not even know Mathematics yet, though ironically we are researching Currency to help cope with our rapid expansion's maintenance costs. How one can have currency without Mathematics, I don't know."
"Math allows us to observe the sun's cycles and create a Calendar, which would allow us to erect a mausoleum to drastically lengthen a golden age from Music."
"You're talking in gibberish, my dear Chris."
Christiaan looks exasperated. "I know! Because we are so backwards that we do not even have mathematics yet, when everyone else seems to! We really ought to send some regular spies to exploit the security holes that Ethel created in Inca. Then we can start stealing their secrets!"
"Isn't stealing bad?"
"We only recently wrote a Dutch Code of Laws. Technically theft from non-citizens is not yet defined as a crime. We meant for that to apply to slaves--we switched to slavery some time ago along with Organized Religion to save ourselves a turn of anarchy by getting both at the same time--but Incans aren't Dutch citizens, either...."
"Excellent moral flexibility, Chris!" Willem winks.
"They're infidels, anyway. We're temporarily Jewish right now, remember?"
“Sir! Admiral Tromp. Sir!”
“At ease. What’s the status of Amsterdam’s Project Colossus?”
“Rotterdam’s massive copper deposits, combined with our religious fanatics’ organization and our forges, have allowed us to nearly finish the project. Our rivals all lack Metal Casting so this one’s in the bag, so to speak. Sir. There were some rabble-rousers though, complaining about the effects that such an offshore project would have on the views from their oceanfront homes. We promptly conscripted them as engineer specialists. Else they’d just be fishing for clams like everyone else, and before you know it, there would be too many people complaining about how it’s too crowded.”
“Excellent. Willem will be happy to know this.”
“Come on in, Maarten, no need to knock, my bodyguard told me that you were coming.”
Admiral Maarten Tromp steps into the great hall of Amsterdam Palace, where Willem is dining. “Yes sir! Willem, good news. Project Colossus is complete. Amsterdam’s reputation as the finest harbor this side of the continent is secure. We are taxing merchants like mad, of course. This ought to help us cope with our crushing maintenance costs as we keep expanding.”
“This continent ought to have a name.”
“Well it’s nameless right now. Maybe we get to name it, since we have the prestige of the Colossus behind us, and whoever built the Great Lighthouse didn’t get around to naming things.”
“Yes. Our continent’s name shall be… Orangaea! And the ocean is known as the Orange Ocean.”
“Orangaea? That sounds so…” Tromp makes a face.
“Don’t you like it?”
“How about Trompia?” Tromp grins.
“That’s got to be the worst name I’ve ever heard for anything. Besides, isn’t that the name of our navy’s flagship or something?”
“Actually we don’t have a navy at the moment. But the plan is to call our first and only warship the Trompest in a Teapot.”
Willem chuckles. “Well, maybe we need to bring Chris in here. Slave boy, please fetch Chris.”
“Um, sir, I’m right behind you.”
Willem jumps with fright and falls out of his chair. “What the--?” Willem gets up off the ground and dusts himself off. “Don’t sneak up on me like that!”
“Um, sir, we were discussing our long-term strategy over our lunch of baked clams and popcorn when your bodyguard interrupted and told you that Maarten was coming. I took the map off the table and have been standing here ever since Maarten came in.”
“Oh wait, that’s right.”
“With all due respect, Willem, maybe you need to lay off the pot just a tad, sir.”
“Yes, yes.” Willem waves his hand as if to shoo off Chris’s suggestion. “Now then, what were we talking about?”
“The name of our continent, sir?”
“That’s right. What do you think it should be called, Chris?”
“I’m beginning to see a pattern here,” Willem sighs.
Maarten pipes up, “How about Colossia? In honor of our project, and a sly reminder to everybody that they should visit the Colossus at least once in their lives. And pay the entrance fees, of course.”
“Done! Our continent shall be known as Colossia!”
Chris scratches his head. “Actually now that I think about the naming conventions of other planets, I recall that all continents needed to begin and end with the letter ‘A.’”
“Bah! Our Colossus, our rules!”
“And now that’s taken care of, perhaps we should let Maarten in on our plans to expand.”
Maarten’s ears perk up. “Who are we fighting? Let me at ‘em!”
Chris grins and turns towards Maarten. “No, we’re expanding peacefully. To the west, despite an utter lack of fortifications, we have designated a grassy hilltop to be West Fort. We already sent a pack of settlers there, who have renamed the city ‘Maastricht,’ and we will be sending another settler party to the area in-between there and Amsterdam.”
Willem asks, “and what about our technological advantage?”
“We have Code of Laws, Alphabet, and Metal Casting on most of our rivals. Unfortunately we don’t know how to count to three, nor do we know what a monarchy is. Importantly, everybody else seems to know how to work iron, which is even harder than bronze and suitable for making all sorts of weapons. I’ve already contacted our rivals, but nobody is willing to trade at anything less than extortionists’ prices. Speaking of extortion, Capac demanded Code of Laws from us. I pretended not to hear him. He retaliated by not having his hands full. I continued to pretend not to hear him.”
“Ha, that will show that Temple of Artemis stealer!”
“We did the same thing to Gilgamesh a bit later, who demanded the same secrets.”
“Good. Do we even know where he is?”
“I believe that they are somewhere south or west of us, past the Incans or Native Americans. Korea is probably south of us past the isthmus of Scythia, judging by their troop movements.”
“Sir!” Willem’s bodyguard steps into the hall. “Wang Kon from Korea sent a messenger. He has responded affirmatively to your plan of selling him clamshell writings and monotheistic ideas in exchange for his teaching you how to count to three.”
Willem leaps up. “This is excellent news! If we can count to three, we can understand how to get Currency a little bit better. Thanks, dismissed.” Willem’s bodyguard exits.
“Sir, if I may?” Chris gingerly interrupts.
“Why are we trading with the infidels when we can simply rob them blind? We should send a spy or two towards our rivals instead of trading with them and helping them keep up with us.”
“Yes, but everyone else already knew organized religion, and it would be only a matter of time before someone else figured out how to scratch things onto clamshells.”
Seeing that Chris still looks troubled, Willem offers, “Fine. How about this: we send a spy or two over to Inca, where our great spy Ethel Rosenberg already infiltrated, and see how much we can milk them. In the meantime, we only trade again if it makes absolute sense.”
“Yes, sir. I think that’s a good idea.”
Trumpets suddenly blare, interrupting Willem just as he was about to reply.
“What? What was that? Is it just me, or was that the Invasion Trumpet?” Willem looks startled.
“We’re under attack? To arms!” Maarten rushes out of the hall, only to return momentarily.
“Gentlemen, we are being attacked from the Orange Ocean by some savages. We have no navy, so we can’t prevent them from taking our tasty clams.”
“Isn’t there anything that can be done?” Willem cries. “I thought we were safe behind our Great Wall of Clamshells, but how wrong I was!”
“We could let them pillage our clams and then rebuild when they go away,” Chris offers.
“Not when. IF. If they go away. What if they stay?” Maarten sniffs. “We should find as many slaves as we can and rush a warship out to meet the enemy!”
Willem nods. “Do it! Our slaveowner citizens may not forget our cruel oppression and waste of life for a while, but our recent lighthouse construction means that we can replenish our population fairly quickly. It seems that the invading fleet is so close that we cannot build the skeleton of a warship and then rush it later, but we must do it all in one go. So be it, Amsterdam was getting so large that everybody was unhappy with the crowding, anyway. And reinforce Maastrict by sending out some workboats to help harvest Maastrict clams!”
And so it was that the mighty trireme Trompest in a Teapot defeated the barbarian galley invasion in 50 BC, and Maarten Tromp became the Netherland's first wartime Admiral.
By the way folks, unless someone objects, I'm going to let the screenshots do the gamespeak from now on, freeing up more time for me to do storyline writeups. So no more dual descriptions of the same turns unless it's something that I think needs gamespeak to stress. Is that cool with y'all?
It is 1 A.D. All roads lead to Amsterdam, city of lights, city of the Colossus, the Oracle, and the Great Wall of Clamshells. At the beginning of the new millennium, Amsterdam is the financial hub of the continent of Colossia, thanks to assiduous Dutch efforts and the Colossus.
Gold-rimmed clamshells of different sizes have just begun to circulate as currency (officially called the “gulden” but unofficially called the “clam” in the Netherlands, which has ushered in a new era of prosperity. Amsterdam is also home to people of Jewish and Hindu faiths, and little changes when Willem abruptly converts to Hinduism, except that there are rampant rumors of a massive Hindu temple and monastery construction binge to begin shortly. Perhaps Alexander Graham Bell, the great engineer born from the forges of Amsterdam who has recently settled down in the city, can help.
Willem van Oranje is still Amsterdam’s Dictator-for-life--and what a long life it is. His reign has lasted for four millennia now. He rules with a benign dictatorship, albeit with the occasional confiscation of private slaves for public use, much to the annoyance of the Dutch elite. The restless people of Amsterdam and its satellite cities are always in search of new lands to settle, in order to escape the crushing overcrowding and strained infrastructure in the big cities.
Several thousand Dutch people have left their homes to settle the aptly-named Middelburg, a sheep- and corn-rich city between the former West Fort point (now known as Maastricht) and Amsterdam herself. Dictator van Oranje’s domestic and science advisor, Christiaan Huygens, recommended this central position to ensure that Maastricht would not be cut off from the rest of the Netherlands and thus not subject to Native American interdiction of goods and supplies should the two nations ever close their borders to each other. And there are rumblings that the Native Americans may close borders if relations deteriorate further.
Sitting Bull is the King of the Native Americans and an ardent Jew. Willem’s abrupt Jew-to-Hindu conversion has made relations go from sweet to sour in the blink of an eye, though King Capac of the Incas is starting to warm up to Willem--slowly. Rumor has it that he cannot shake the feeling that Willem converted for political reasons rather than divine inspiration or dutiful theological studies.
Sumer and Korea have been tight-lipped about their home cities’ whereabouts, but Korea is probably located southeast of the Scythian-controlled isthmus of Scythia, and Sumer is probably west of either the Incans or Native Americans.
It is in this setting of discordant religious conflict and distrustful political relations that Jan Bushnell finds himself pulled from naval service and pressed into service as a spy. Jan is a suave young Dutch lad with dark hair and bright eyes full of mischief. For many long years in the commercial port city of The Hague, far from prying eyes, Jan is instructed in the ways of surveillance, counter-intelligence, and mnemonics.
Jan can still remember the last words he heard from his stout and frumpy handler, who goes by “Q.”
“You have your clamshell?” Q asked.
“Remember that it is not a toy. It is the finest-grade clamshell available, and you can scratch words into it with a extreme precision. It is the best recording device yet invented. Just get the job done. We are all counting on you and rooting for you back home. Here is a sack of clams to get you to Tiwanaku, the closest Incan city according to our scant records. Good luck.”
Jan, dressed as a Hindu pilgrim, has no trouble following the trading routes to Inca until he crosses the border and realizes that a new city, Corihuayrachina, has sprung up slightly closer to the Netherlands than Tiwanaku. Jan has depleted his gulden supply and decides to change course for Cori instead, sending a message back to headquarters. But headquarters never responds. The years turn into decades, and eventually Jan takes up residence with and marries a lovely, doe-eyed Incan woman with an unpronounceable name who goes by “Mari” for short. Jan thus starts a second life as a Dutch expatriate farmer.
“Who is it, Mari? Who was that knocking at the door of our hut?”
“A Dutch man. He says he is looking for Jan. I ask him which Jan, but he says only this: it’s raining clamshells in The Hague today. Jan! What’s wrong? You turned so pale all of a sudden.”
Jan sits down on the earthen floor, eyes wide, and stunned. “All these years,” he mumbles, “and only now do they send word?”
“What do you mean?” Mari asks. “Is there something I should know about?”
Jan looks at the floor of the hut. “Did the man say anything else?”
“He said he will be at the tavern tonight. He did not leave his name and just bid me farewell and left.”
Jan slowly looks up at Mari. “I may be out late tonight.”
Where is the stranger, the one who is about to ruin the life that I’ve built for myself here in this strange land. Or maybe it’s all a coincidence. ‘It’s raining clamshells’ is a popular expression, isn’t it? Maybe it's just coincidence that someone spoke the code phrase. But why would someone say something like that here in Cori? How would they even know what the weather was like in The Hague? Jan thinks to himself as he scans the tavern.
Jan instinctively whips around and catches the man behind him in an armlock, with his other hand poised to strike.
“Ah. They said you were good. The first and possibly the best.”
“I’m sorry. Old habits.” Jan lets go of the man’s arm, and the few patrons who noticed the episode go back to their drinking.
“That’s fine. Can I buy you something to drink?”
“I’m only here to talk.”
“I am too.”
“Then let’s hear it.”
“It’s not safe here. Too many ears. Back at my hut.”
“How do I know who you are?”
“Q sent me.”
“How is that old fart doing?”
“I’m sorry to hear.”
“I know, I know. You built a life for yourself here and don’t know if you can go back, right? I am probably the last person you want to see right now.”
“I think you’ll like what I have to say, though.”
“Let’s hear it.”
“Back at my hut.”
“What’s your bloody name, anyway?”
“Pleased to meet you at last.”
“So there you have it: your message back home never made it due to some sort of international postal miscommunication, but we found you, and we think you are the right man for the job,” Rene ends.
“That’s it? That’s all you want?”
“It depends on what you find out, of course.”
“You want me to waltz into the local Incan duke’s stronghold and kidnap his forgemaster. That’s basically what you’re asking.”
“Something like that, yes. Listen, Jan. Your fatherland needs you. Dictator Willem traded away his secrets of currency away and is building a glorious mausoleum, but it is sapping the resources of our entire nation to complete it. Meanwhile our rivals grow ever-stronger, and we are at risk of falling behind in the arms race. We would rather steal from someone else, but Ethel Rosenberg’s masterful spying gave us detailed maps and information on the Incan empire. They are the easiest target.”
“Stop it. I’ve heard it all before.”
“But it’s true. This continent is a powder keg waiting to blow, and we need all the information you can gather just to play catch-up.”
Jan paces back and forth and Rene watches him in silence.
“I’ll do it, but on one condition.”
“You are a member of his majesty’s intelligence service. No conditions.”
“One condition,” Jan repeats.
Rene rolls his eyes. “What?”
“I return to Amsterdam with my wife Mari, all expenses paid.”
“For you, yes. I can’t guarantee that for Mari. You haven't leaked anything to her have you? Does she know who you are?”
“Of course not. But without her, I’m not going.”
“Let’s compromise, then. I will give you a hundred gulden now and the rest later in Amsterdam. Will you take it?” Rene holds out a bag of Dutch currency.
Jan stares at the bag.
“Jan, what’s wrong?”
“I told you. I will be away for a while, but I’ll send for you. There are a hundred gulden in that bag.”
“You still haven’t told me where you got that money from. What aren’t you telling me? Is this about your old navy service? Do they want you back?” Mari looks worried.
“I’ll tell you all about that in Amsterdam,” Jan grins, caressing her long, raven-black hair. “I promise.”
Could you get the text in between the pictures? It would make the story a lot better. I really like it so far. And what a prime estate Especially if you take out the barb city in the SE. More resources please.
Separate names with a comma.