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Immortal Game #2

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Wrathful, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. Wrathful

    Wrathful Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Well, I've got that urge to play Civ again, so I've returned with a new map. I tried to get back into my Alex game but it seemed fairly hopeless. My economy was in shambles - the game surely would have been a long slog to 1800ad or so (for me at least, maybe not for the veterans. :bowdown:). So I've started a new game with what appears to be a better start.

    Here are the settings:
    • Fractal
    • Standard size (6 AIs)
    • Immortal Difficulty
    • Standard climate, sea level, etc.
    • No tribal villages
    • No random events
    • Normal speed
    Fractal could give us anything. Continents, Pangaea, Isolation, Semi-isolation, etc. Shuffle is perhaps the only map script with more "mystery".

    Here's our randomly-selected leader:
    Spoiler Leader :

    Leader.png
    I like Suryavarman. Great traits and decent starting techs. His UU and UB are somewhat lackluster, but at least they synergise to a certain extent. (Math is needed for Construction.) Overall, he's good but not overpowered.


    And here's the start:
    Spoiler Start :

    Start.png
    And here's the start.

    A nice river with loads of forest. Ivory is awesome (especially with our UU).
    The most alarming thing about this start (in my opinion) is the lack of visible food. There is one unforested tile to the north which should have some food.

    I see three options here:
    1. Settle in place; hope that there is food to the north.
    2. Settle on the spice for extra commerce.
    3. Move scout to the PH to see if there is food nearby and settle there if so. With a plain hill settle and ivory tile, we can get a 10 turn worker thanks to the Expansive trait! The downside to this is fewer green river tiles for later. But we should still have plenty of green riverside, and it's tough to beat a ten-turn worker.
    Tech choice will depend on what food we have. So it will be AH or Agriculture probably. Hunting lets us research AH immediately.


    Save attached.
     

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  2. Fippy

    Fippy Warrior Queen

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    Hmm so food can only be 2N, only not forested tile we can see.
    Think i like settling on Spices, should not lose a worker turn too cos of ph in range faster.
    Unless your scout finds food south / west, def move him 2s yup.
     
  3. Fizz'l

    Fizz'l Chieftain

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    There seems to be a river SW of the PH so you may not give up green tiles by moving there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  4. Wrathful

    Wrathful Chieftain

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    Spoiler Scout Move :

    Moved the scout 2S to see if there's any food down there and...
    Scout Move.png
    we do in fact have food!

    So, settling on that plains hill certainly seems like the best move here. Lots of plains, but we still have many green tiles.
     
  5. Fippy

    Fippy Warrior Queen

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    Agree with ph, food 2N could be anything..not worth risking it being cows.
     
  6. Wrathful

    Wrathful Chieftain

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    Spoiler Update to T10 :

    So with the corn in sight I chose to settle on the plains hill.

    T1: Settled my capital. Gold spotted! I will circle my scout around the nearby land.
    Capital Settled.png

    Met Willem on T2...his borders are already visible.
    Willem.png

    T6: Met Alexander.
    Alex.png
    An aggressive leader to balance our peaceful Dutch friend.

    Scouting reveals that there was food on that suspicious tile.
    Pig.png

    I'm still happy with my decision. 1S of the pig could be a good second city spot.

    T10: Agriculture finished. Here's the current situation:
    T10.png
    Worker done next turn. He will farm the corn, then build an ivory camp.

    Bronze Working appears to be the best choice of tech here. The only problem is that there will be a few dead worker turns.
    15 turns to tech BW - 1 for worker to reach corn - 5 to farm corn - 1 to reach ivory - 4 to build camp - 1 to enter forest = 3 wasted worker turns.
    But I don't really think that's a big problem.
     

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  7. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Think I would have settled on the spice tbh, judging by the starting screenshot. We know there is food to the north, as it's the only tile that can contain food (but of course we don't know what type of food). Looks very brown in the south/south-west. Settling on the ivory would be more preferable, but not an option here as it would have missed the food north, and gained brown-ness.

    Spoiler :
    Having seen your spoilers until turn 10, I still think settling on the spice would have been better. That's an awful lot of brown tiles for a capital, but corn, albeit dry, is very nice of course. And settling on a plain hill is always great.

    Right now you of course have an excellent city to the north that grabs pig and green rivers, and hopefully there is food east and west so you can grab both golds. Should be a nice game with two golds :)

    Willem is a nice neighbour (cultural aside), as he trades easily and often expands slowly. Should be an easy war target, resources permitting, if you want to go that route. With elephants... muahahahahaa! :D
     
  8. Fippy

    Fippy Warrior Queen

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    Settling on Spices has only 1 green tile more, actually ;)
    (if including Spices as green, but why not)
     
  9. Wrathful

    Wrathful Chieftain

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    Spoiler Update to T25 :

    Set research to BW. Also set my espionage points onto Willem.

    T11: Worker produced! He will farm the corn, then build a camp.
    Production set to warrior. I will get out another and then build a settler at size 3, working corn + ivory + spice tile. Settler will be assisted by a chop.

    Moving my scout 1 tile at a time to avoid getting mauled by a bear.

    T12: Spotted grassland cow by the western gold. A potential second city spot on the plains hill 1NW of the gold.
    Cow.png
    So the question is: what's more important? The pigs nearby or the gold? Both spots require AH, so I'll likely be heading for that soon. Of course, gold should make that easy.

    T14: Buddhism founded. That's pretty late actually.

    T16: Farm finished. Camp next.

    T19: Warrior finished. I will build another then start the settler.
    The warrior will head to the eastern gold to see if there's any food over there.

    T23: Warrior finished. Starting on settler.

    Scouting reveals no food but three distinct calendar resources near the eastern gold.
    East Gold.png
    There appears to be quite a bit of land here. Barbarians might wreck our game! :lol:
    If BW reveals copper, it might be best to claim it.

    T25: BW finished. Copper sighted!
    Copper.png

    Ironically, a barb archer happens to be on top of it. With all the land here I think that securing copper is important. Pigs and rivers are nice, but I don't want to die.

    We'll need The Wheel if we want to hook up the copper, so I set my research to that next. Of course, if we go for the pigs first I'll switch to AH.

    What do you guys think?
     

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  10. Fizz'l

    Fizz'l Chieftain

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    Well you settle SE of cows? With creative leader you can claim the copper easily. However cows as the only food source means growth won't be brilliant I think.
     
  11. Lain

    Lain Chieftain

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    I think you could have invested in a PH mine on the river, maybe still worth it. No big incentive to grow the capital for a while now (until forests are cleared, granary built and grassland cottaged). Whipping is not that attractive either, not that much food here, especially before Granaries and even then, it's probably better to grow on cottages. There is a lot of stuff to build and you would be working the mine for 20+ turns for sure, so it's worth the investment. Otherwise you are kind of stuck with that spice tile for a long time (which is a plains farm essentially). You are also EXP, so you would churn out really quick workers, axemen are also needed and not everything can be chopped.

    Wheel seems good. After Settler is done I would probably chop two more workers before doing anything else (including building a road and such, commerce won't be a problem here with the gold). A lot of things to improve, many forests to chop. Settler for Pig city after that.
     
  12. Wrathful

    Wrathful Chieftain

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    Interesting. Maybe there's still time to get that mine. Hopefully I haven't missed the opportunity.

    Will do. We'll definitely be needing lots of workers here.

    That's the plan! That place doesn't have to grow very much anyway. Just need it for gold and copper really.

    Spoiler To T33 :

    T26: Creative trait let's me pop borders again. I also spotted Willem's second city location.
    Willem Second City.png
    T27: Napoleon found me.
    Napoleon.png
    Looks like his scout came from the east.

    Also met Charlemagne, the founder of Hinduism. You can see his borders in the screenshot.
    Charlemagne.png

    Only two AIs left to meet...

    The worker also finished the first chop. He'll move to the PH next.

    T29: Unfortunately, I made a really dumb move with my scout and he got eaten by a lion! :cry:
    Oh well.

    T31: Settler finished. Heading straight for another worker as advised by Lain.

    T32: If I had the PH mine that Lain mentioned, I would be getting one more hammer and one more commerce right now.
    City Screen.png

    I'll fix that with the worker currently on the PH. The new worker can chop out another worker. Then we can get all the nice resources.

    T33: Settled my second city.
    Hariharalaya.png

    I don't feel very safe there so I think I'll work the PH forest to get out another warrior.
    Is that a stupid idea? I just don't want a barb archer to waltz in there and obliterate the helpless village of Harihalaya! :lol:

    Tech: AH next?
     

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  13. Lain

    Lain Chieftain

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    Think you should be fine @Barbs for at least 10 more turns or so. Extra warriors can't hurt though, would be good to know if barbs are swarming the pig location and such. New worker should probably hurry towards the copper, if you really want to feel safe (don't connect the cities, another worker can do that later).

    You are doing well on the tech front, especially with the gold coming up soon. So AH first looks good. Pretty much any worker/tech decision should go in favor of production right now. Hooking up gold being the exception, because it's just too good a tile.

    Maybe worker #3 followed by a settler for pigs? Would be good to have settled it before T50 for sure. Probably want some unit in the north to fogbust the spot.
     
  14. Wrathful

    Wrathful Chieftain

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    Thanks a bunch for the tips Lain.

    Spoiler To T43 :

    Set research to AH. I will need to collect gold for 3 turns before I can turn up my slider though.

    T34: Worker produced in capital. Production set to another worker.

    I decided to send my new worker to the copper instead of chopping. Chopping would only speed up the production of the new worker by one turn since it would take 4 turns to chop a forest.

    T36: PH mine and one road for copper finished.

    T37: Finished a warrior in Harihalaya. With no barbarians in sight I stopped working the plain hill forest tile.

    T38: Harihalaya border pop reveals a barb city in the fog.
    Barb City.png
    T39: Third worker finished in capital. He will chop a settler for the pig city.

    T40: The barb archer I showed previously is back. He killed one of Napoleon's scouts and will probably promote.
    Barb Archer.png
    Switched Harihalaya to work the PH forest to get a warrior in 3 turns.

    T41: Met Roosevelt. He's the founder of Buddhism (odd) and score leader. His scout came from the east.
    Roosevelt.png

    Barb archer did not enter my borders. I suppose I have a little more time before the barbarians can invade.

    Copper mine and gold mine finished this turn. I chose to work the gold.

    Looks like all the AIs have archers only except Willem, who has chariots. Better him than Alex I suppose.

    T42: I delayed hooking up my copper for one turn to finish a warrior in Harihalaya. If I connected copper the warrior build would turn into a spearman build because I have Hunting.

    T43: AH finished. Horses spotted! If I settle pig city 1E of where I originally intended to settle it I can claim them.
    Horses.png

    Tech: Pottery next? Cheap granaries and cottages for the pig city. Or perhaps it's better to head straight for Writing? I favor Pottery personally.

     

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  15. Wrathful

    Wrathful Chieftain

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    Spoiler To T50 :

    I decided to tech Pottery next.

    T45: That troublesome barb archer killed one of my warriors at a 15% chance!

    T46: Settler finished. Production in capital set to axeman.
    With the settler out I decided to revolt to slavery. I will whip my next settler 4>2 I think.

    T47: Settled my 3rd city near the pigs.
    The barb city looks very nice, but it's surrounded by jungle. I'm not sure if it's worth taking.
    Barb City 2.png

    T48: Finished the cow pasture near Harihalaya. I will grow to size 2, then start working the gold again.

    T49: A forest grew near my capital.

    Using zoomed-out culture view, I have identified Alex's location.
    Zoomed-out culture.png
    T50: Pottery finished. Set research to Writing.
    Produced an axeman in my capital.
    Set production everywhere to granaries.

    Screenshot of the current situation:
    T50.png

    I will settle the wheat spot next.
    Not sure when I will get the western rice spot. It isn't very good.
    I would love to grab the gold in the east, but it doesn't have any food. I can't really share my capital's corn either.

    When I get IW I can take the barb city. Hopefully no one else gets it before then.
     

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  16. Gasp

    Gasp Chieftain

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    Well I like the way you played so far.. and your reports ;) That wheat city is good to help working the gold. Too bad it cannot grab more riverside tiles/
     
  17. Fizz'l

    Fizz'l Chieftain

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    Just wondering. If you settle in the desert just west of the eastern gold, you should have access to two riverside grass tiles giving you enough food for an ok city.
    There are 8 additional grassland tiles for cottages if required or two grass hills to mine along with the gold if you need the production.
     
  18. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    I would hate to steal two riverside tiles from the capital for the needs of a very poor city. It's not going to work as intended. Cottages on those grasslands are a very long-term investment without financial and it will take forever to grow to use them all anyway.
    On the other hand, Sury is creative, so if there is food somewhere eastwards there is nothing wrong in settling with both food and gold in the 2nd ring.
     
  19. Fizz'l

    Fizz'l Chieftain

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    I thought he might have enough with the corn and other two tiles. But then maybe he wants to run specialists in the cap so he needs all the food he can get. At least it looks like the desert doesn't go too far to the east.
     
  20. Wrathful

    Wrathful Chieftain

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    Thanks for the advice and comments everyone. I will investigate the east to see if there is any food for the gold over there. If there isn't any I might not settle it.

    Spoiler To T57 :

    T51: Announcement reveals the most cultured civilizations. Buddhism earned Rosy 1st place. Creative gave 2nd and 3rd to Willem and me. Hinduism got Charly to fourth. The last unmet AI is on the bottom, so he's not Creative.
    Most Cultured Civs.png

    Stonehenge built in Washington.

    I found another barb city in the jungle.
    Barb City again.png
    Curses! Charley claimed the wheat spot.
    Evil Charly.png
    It's looking like an Elepult attack against puny Willem may be in order. He has chariots. Still two cities though.

    T52: Found yet another Barb city right by the other one!
    Barb City Mayhem.png

    That one has flood plains, but it's really far away so I'm not sure its worth it.

    Those flood plains are a potential food source for the gold city.

    T54: I was a little careless with exploration and lost to warriors to the barbarians. Not very smart. But I have axemen so I feel perfectly safe.

    Question: This would be a "perfect" granary build, yes? It's being finished with the food bin half full.
    Granary Build.png

    A weakened barb archer is threatening Harihalaya, but I have an axeman on the way. Overflow from a granary build will finish another axeman in two turns. (Yay for expansive!)
    Invading archer.png

    I chopped that granary. I didn't want to whip there because I want to keep working the gold.

    T56: The barb archer tries to smash my copper mine, but the newly produced axeman stops him.
    Archer fight.png

    2-pop whipped a settler in the capital.

    T57: Napoleon founded Judaism and converted to it. There will be lots of religions tensions in this game for sure. Especially with Napoleon and Alex around.

    So now I have a settler, but I have no clue what to do with it. All the good land is either far away or covered in ugly green jungle.

    Here's the situation as of T57:
    T57.png

    I thought about those two spots dotmapped. They don't seem very good though.

    Any tips?
     

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