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Immortal game with Suleiman ends up in kind of a dead-end

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by dfg26, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. dfg26

    dfg26 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Messages:
    39
    Ok, this is my third or fourth attempt on Immortal. The game has gone fairly smoothly so far, I have decent amount of cities and have not fallen terribly behind in tech.

    My neighbours are Genghis, Saladin, Hammurabi, Justinian, Ramesses and Alexander. The diplo-situation is that pretty much everyone else hates Hammy, and Genghis and Alexander have been at war with Ramesses almost right from beginning. Or so i think, because for some reason I only met Ramesses around 500 ad, when Alex capitulated Ramesses. So I decide to target Hammurabi, and attack him at 790 ad.

    However right after I declare on Hammurabi, Saladin declares on him too and bribes Genghis in. Okay, not that big of a deal I think. Just have to be careful not to let neither of them capitulate him. But wouldn't you know it, after I've taken three cities from Hammurabi, Saladin caps him without even taking one :mad:

    So now I'm in a situation where pretty much everyone else is friends with each other, and two of them are warmongers with huge armies standing by. I kind of gave up after that and attacked Genghis, who pretty much wiped out my whole stack in one turn :D

    I think I'll have to give this one another try somewhere in the future.

    Here's the start: (should've settled that gold but I didn't see it at first and didn't bother to reload)



    I also added the 4000BC save and the save from right before I attack Hammurabi.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. ben-jammin

    ben-jammin Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,436
    A smart thing to do in this situation is locate Saladin and Genghis' stacks once they've dogpiled Hammurabi. At this point Hammurabi is screwed one way or another so you can stop worrying about taking his cities or capitulating him. Wait for Saladin and/or Genghis to attack a city. Declare on them and smash their stack while it's damaged. Proceed to take out the trash.

    By doing this you allow the AIs to do all the hard work for you by attacking each other, you should get an extraordinarily high kills:losses ratio, which will then make it easier to capitulate them. And it robs them of a lot of super discounted unit upgrades that might make it impossible for you to take them out later.
     
  3. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,322
    Location:
    UK
    In my current game not featured on this forum. Shaka was in war mode. I was one of the likely targets. 1 turn before Ap vote I bribe Russians to attack SB. Which he does. Turn later war vote. Suprise, suprise me and Shaka are at war with Sb.

    Turn later Sb sends his 30 strong stack to it's death. He had 11 impi/pults/axes and sword. Sb had mace/phants/pults/xbow. I suspect Shaka attacked his stack on a forest. Stupid!! Shaka stack dies.

    SB stack piles in to attack and take a pre captured Korean city. Again this was a stack I would of strruggled to deal with. Suicides on Shakas city and I mop up with phants, NCav and pults. End result Shaka and SB stacks both wiped out. 40-50 units dead. I lost no units. I am 2-3 turns from curs so this should finish off my main threats.
     
  4. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,006
    Location:
    Cantaloupe Island
    Took a quick spin to 1AD. No detailed write-up but 2 saves attached.
    Spoiler :
    Opening:
    Techs: Pottery, Mysticism, Masonry, Bronze Working, Priesthood (via Med), Writing.
    Builds: Worker, Worker at size 3, Settler at size 4.

    Map is a good exercise in RExing. Balancing commerce and production is key. Wonders can be built. Settlers are needed, so are workers. Barb cities will spawn so military is welcome. Some infrastructure will help. Plenty of lakes make for interesting border cities.

    Met Ramesses late.
    Popped 2 G Spies and an Engineer. No Scientist yet explains the recent switch into Caste System.


    EDIT:
    Took a quick look at your save:
    Spoiler :
    You need to explore a lot more. Getting map knowledge as early as possible is very important. Especially, it allows you to settle prime city locations.
    City 2 shouldn't have been settled by the gold. With knowledge of Pottery, 2 Cottaged floodplains are much more attractive than a desert gold (food trumps all).
    You did not need Archery that early. Barb defense is important but you can always research Bronze W. or AH before Archery. Also, you can defend with warriors in the jungles/forests outside your borders. Defending with warriors alone is a significant boost on research.
    Your expansion rate was fine for the 1st 3 cities. Then, you started lagging behind. Not sure why but probably you built too much infrastructure (granaries, libraries, etc.) and not enough workers. Workers are crucial to help powering out the settlers. Maybe you didn't chop/whip enough. 1400BC is a good target date for the 4th city.

    Don't despair, plenty of good things otherwise.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    For start i would suggest:
    A) not automating workers
    B) not going through AI preferable path - feudalism/engineering, etc.

    These two things should fix some problems.
     
  6. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
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    22,322
    Location:
    UK
    I hadn't looked at the game as I might try it tomorrow. I am still getting back into civ 4.

    Automating workers and teching feudalism is bad no matter what way you look at it. What does feudalism gain you?? Monarchy too is always beelined by AI. Aesthetics/ currency are much better options for tech trades. Maybe COL on the right game. Monarchy mainly for happiness on poor starts.
     
  7. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,322
    Location:
    UK
    Played up to 50ad.

    Spoiler :


    Quite alarming to have alex and Khan nearby. Khan expanded fast on my game to 9 cities. Him and Alex soon went war mode and alarm bells began to ring. Thankfully Khan attacked Egptians and I happily joined the war. So far +3 from mutual war. Khan now happy. Alex eventually attacked Egptians too and great result for diplomacy.

    There has been a bit of hindu love in and I have most Ai apart from Justin at pleased.

    Sal has run away tech wise in my game. He got Oracle. The rest are lagging behind him. Hopefully my teching will be more direct.

    I went for mids(stone) and I used a GE on Glib. Nearly at Currency. So CS next.

    Rexxed to about 7-8 cities. Just found some horse too.

    I suspect my big issue will be Sal with 11 cities. Also Ap if built early.

    Need to get hammy to pleased.

     
  8. Pengu

    Pengu Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    408
    Tried it and it turned out bad

    Spoiler :

    I tried to avoid settling towards Gengis to not upset him. I worked well and instead I stifled Arabias expansion. The big problem is that Ramessess is a big wuss and Gengis dowed him early when Ram had 3 cities and Gengis 5-6. And after Ram losing 2 I thought I had to do something and bribed in Alex in on Gengis. Meanwhile gengis kept demanding tribute after tribute, which I gave. But gengis just mowed down both and took Sparta and Athens including the Mids :(. then he went into policestate. He was so backwards from all these wars but he didn't care. When he finally got feu both capped right away and he went into war mode right away. Who is his only neighbour left?
    So gengis with 2 vassals has no got back in the tech race thanks to them and I now has to go into defense mode which might cost me the lib race and the game.
    Was way too easy for Gengis to steamroll 2 AI like that in the BC's. I tried to bribe Gengis to peace but he wasn't having it.
     

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