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Immortal level Shadow game - Shaka of Zululand

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Peacefanatic, May 19, 2019.

  1. Peacefanatic

    Peacefanatic Chieftain

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    Hello fellow Civfanatics,

    After I first heard about Shadow games it has always been my wish to play one and learn from all the great players in this forum. I love Civ IV and have been playing it whenever I can for a couple months now.
    I tried to play a Shadow game before but I got it all wrong and instead just posted a game I played until 1000 BC or something. I hope I get it right this time and can improve my game with the help from you all.

    Without further due, the settings of the game are: Immortal Level, Pangaea map, Standard Size, Temperate Climate, Random Sealevel and Shoreline, Normal Speed, No Tribal Villages, Random Events ON.

    Our leader is going to be Shaka of Zululand, whom I consider to be a good leader but not a top tier one, so I believe he will be a good one for learning purpouses. Also, just as a sidenote, I believe my worst skill is choosing good city spots, blocking land and choking enemy AI.

    Our start is:
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-5-19_12-44-38.png


    My idea is to move the scout to the mine 2 squares to the West and 1 to the north so we can check what is happening there. And I believe the best place to settle will be one square north of the Settler. That way we have 2 sea food and 2 AH tiles, also our capital will be a coastal city, which I think is good for commerce, and since Shaka is expansive it's not a big deal not being next to a source of water for the +2 health bonus. Additionally, Shaka's starting techs are Hunting and Agriculture, the best ones for researching AH right away.

    Please let me know your thoughts and thanks in advance for everybody that will spare some time to help a noob friend not being noob anymore.
     

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    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  2. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Prince

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    Random events are going to make this a little awkward, since there's a chance that you get an event where *insert famous barbarian here* spawns a half-dozen Archers/Spears/Axes somewhere on your border out of nowhere. I'd recommend playing with events off, at least for the purposes of learning the game, but if you really want to play with events, go for it.

    As for the start, I don't disagree with your plan. Settling 1N of SIP seems to carry no risk of ruining fish, saves a forest, and Expansive will cover the loss of fresh water nicely. Barring scouting information I say settle 1N.
     
  3. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Click/deselect tech until the 5th turn...beakers are stored until that turn, so you don't have to commit to a tech. AH is probably the logical choice though.

    1N is fine, but I'd like to see what the scout sees first. I think that is a lake near the pigs, but you can check for fresh water on the tiles. I think moving to the PH up there is fine, but I'm kinda curious what is beyond the hills to the NW. The idea may be to settle more inland and settle the seafood/sheep later. But probably not worth unless something nice appears up N...not much in the way of rivers here...so cap will just be a cap.

    1N might be a resource as well.
     
  4. Peacefanatic

    Peacefanatic Chieftain

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    First of all, thanks for your reply AcaMetis.
    Now about the random events, is there anyway to turn them off and keep exactly the same start? I don't want to edit this post. If I can't just change it for this save I think I'll just keep it this way. Is that ok?

    Well we at least agree for T0. What are your thoughts about the stone? If we settle in that position they will be out of the BFC, but since we will get them as soon as we get a second border pop I don't think that will be a problem. Or if we need them sooner we can just settle a city there, right?

    How should I proceed now? Should I wait for a few more players to answer and make a group decision about this? After that should I play a few turns and post it here?
     
  5. Peacefanatic

    Peacefanatic Chieftain

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    Nice to see you again lymond, you always give me great tips.
    And I have to be honest I had no idea I could deselect tech research and keep the beakers. When I choose to tech again do all the beakers stored go into research into that same turn? If that's what happen it's an awesome idea, because we can meet some AIs in the meantime and research afterwards with a possible discount. Is that the idea behind this?

    I just checked and the green tile 1 square north of the pigs is surrounded by fresh water. But I have to admit I could not figure out how did you saw a lake up there, for me it looked like a coastal tile.

    I'm sorry but I did not understand where exactly you want to move the scout. Could you be more specific please?

    I always try to settle more inland, even if I start with fishing, but in this case the coastal tile seems the best spot for me.

    Do you mean near the Plain Hills?
     
  6. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Prince

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    I think there's a way to turn off random events if you jump through a number of hoops involving Worldbuilder saves and whatnot, so it's probably best to just leave it as is.

    Stone isn't something you need to be worried about with your capitol unless you're building Great Wall. Pyramids can wait until you've got a second city at least, and Stonehenge can't really wait for Masonry/Wheel to hook up stone. And, in your case, Mysticism to unlock it. Any later wonder can just wait for it.

    I'd say move the scout and report on the scouting information. Based on what I'm seeing you're on the southern end of the Pangaea, so there is merit in moving further north and grabbing more land. Assuming there's good land, of course.

    1N of the Settler, there could be a hidden resource on that tile. It's a good thing if there is, through. Wasting a forest on the chance you might otherwise settle on a hidden resource is, I'm pretty sure, never a good idea.
     
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  7. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Attached save with no events.

    It's not incredibly difficult to do. You open worldbuilder and save the game as a worldbuilder file, then you start a scenario using that worldbuilder file and select "No events", then you have to add the appropriate techs to barbs (for imm, agri+hunt+archery).

    Abit annoying, always the risk to spoil something for yourself. Now I managed to see the name of one AI. >_<

    EDIT Oh, and it's only possible to do from T0, if the game has started plot culture has started to spread and that is not saved in WB files. Alot of other things are equally not stored in a worldbuilder file. /EDIT
     

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  8. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    The deselect of tech: The idea is partially to get discounts yes. But the main point is that you don't have to commit to your starting tech right away. You can see things the first 5 turns that make your priorities change.

    When I look at this starting screen, the epicenter of my attention is those pigs.
    Plains sheep, stone and non-fish seafood are all in the shadow of those sweet piggies.
    The PH up in the north provides an extra early hammer which can be really valuable too. If we could also somehow secure 2 additional hammers in the first ring, that would be even better (since shaka is expansive you will get further discount on the worker).

    Scout NE and then NW up on the plains hills seems like a logical move to me.
    And depending on how that looks, settler NW and then N and then reevaluate.
     
  9. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    I would want to see some more east tiles, those that would be in your bfc if you settled 1ne.
    Pigs are much more important than stone, but Acametis already mentioned.

    also edit ;)
    PH could still luck out ofc, moving scout there is also good.

    Lain's last game was a great example of why taking your time with settling can often be very rewarding, even if it costs another turn moving.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Krikav explained the deselect thing perfectly. I also like the scout plan he mentions now that I think of it, as moving 1NE will reveal tiles over the lake fwiw. I was thinking more like 2XNW initially. Granted, the lake aint special itself, but you never know if you might see something good across it. I think the scout will reveal like 5 tiles just moving 1NE.

    edit: based on My's fine logic then maybe 1NE/1SE is best for scout. Will reveal a lot of tiles.

    Settling 1NE is certainly an option.
     
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  11. Peacefanatic

    Peacefanatic Chieftain

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    I'm not much of a Wonder builder and I agree with all your comments regarding this matter.

    I never think about my location on the map.
    This shadow game barely started and I'm already getting a better look about the thought process of the strategy in the game.

    Thanks a lot for your effort. I already downloaded and I'll be playing with it.

    It makes a lot of sense. How about the turn right after the one you start researching again? Do you spend all the beakers stored in that same turn?

    I was so decided to settle 1 square N of settler that I did not think about that possibility, now that you mention it seems so obvious.

    I just moved the scout 1NE and it revealed some gold very near. Now I'm not sure if I move the scout 1SE like you said or to the PH right next to him, he still have one more move available. What do you guys think?

    Bellow is a screenshot of the new setup:
     
  12. Peacefanatic

    Peacefanatic Chieftain

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    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-5-19_16-29-37.png
     
  13. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Jump on the plains hill, settling near your starting location has just become much more unlikely ;)
    PH will give you great view, hills in general are good spots for scouting units.
     
  14. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Once you start research, all stored beakers are placed in the tech you commit to.
    If you don't commit, the AI will commit your beakers for you, in some stupid way (likely fishing here).

    There are lot of info you can get on your location from what you see. Seeing tundra/ice is obvious, but crabs are present only closer to the poles too. Likewise ivory and most calendar resources are clustered close to the equator.

    What I see from the screenshot, I would continue following my plan to move NW, not because of the gold, but becauce of desert tiles in the east.
    But I have a tendancy to get attached to my ideas and this might just be rationalizing.
     
  15. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Oh, and settler I stand by NW then N, reveals alot of info and places in position to climb the PH on T1.
     
  16. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    yep..hop on PH now. Gold makes it interesting now. Desert unfortunate, but a couple of those tiles don't matter. This cap will be strictly production. Adding gold early though will be nice, although it is awkwardly placed. Scout reveal may change idea to wait on gold. Regardless, I'd settle inland

    Moving settler NW/N would be good move if committed to settling on PH, but if for gold probably best to move straight over there.
     
  17. Peacefanatic

    Peacefanatic Chieftain

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    I just did it Fippy and it revealed some corn to us. Please check the new situation below:

    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-5-19_16-45-53.png


    Now it's time to move the Settler and I'm thinking about settling our first city 1NE of settler. That way we will have 8 green tiles (assuming one of those hidden tiles is a grassland), 1 pig, 1 cow and 3 mines. Also in the near future we could settle a second city in the marked spot and start working that corn right away. Please let me know your thoughts.

    Sorry but I didn't understand this. What does this mean? How can you commit your beakers?

    I'll start paying more attention to this. Thanks for the tip.

    What do you mean by this? They are in the middle of the map?
     
  18. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Think you have to settle 1e of the plains hill now, an extra hammer always makes for a nice start but gold should be more important.
    Gold is also sweet with 2x 6 :food: tiles.

    Getting both corn & gold with your 2nd city would require a border pop.
     
  19. Peacefanatic

    Peacefanatic Chieftain

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    Why do you say this lymond? I was thinking about a cottage city. Am I wrong?

    Where exactly are you thinking about settling? What do you think about the spots I marked on the map?
     
  20. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Prince

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    With regards to telling your rough position on the equator, another way to tell is to look at forests. In order of poles to equator, forests take the form of snow-capped pine trees (I...think those are pine trees), regular pines, oak trees (the more circular trees 2N of the Gold), and finally Jungle. Usually your position on the map is relatively obvious, as in this case where there's a snow-capped pine forest to your south so close to the southern pole, but rarely the best hint you'll get is that there's (for example) pines to your north and oaks to your south. In that case you're on in the northern hemisphere, roughly between the equator and the poles.
     
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