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Immortal - Mehmed

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by SittinDown, Feb 3, 2021.

  1. SittinDown

    SittinDown King Supporter

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    This is a HOF mod save only - sorry.

    Settings:
    • Mehmed - just rolled a random leader.
    • Immortal.
    • No events / huts.
    • Pangaea
    I played this already to T-60, and found it challenging. I know on my first play through I made some mistakes, but I'd like to see how others do this.

    At least we have Ivory, and dry corn and lots of forests. (I settled on the PH in my first play for a T-10 worker).

    upload_2021-2-3_21-1-7.png
     

    Attached Files:

  2. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I bet that PH had a resource, or may still be hidden. I really like Mehmed a lot. I think he's a bit underrated cause Org is generally considered meh. Great starting techs and EXP+ORG give some nice discount to early buildings. Hamman is great if happiness is needed.

    Probably will play this one. I've been playing Pangaea a lot recently.

    Is there a difference between the attached files?
     
  3. SittinDown

    SittinDown King Supporter

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    No - there is no difference between the files loaded. I edited the original to only have 1 file. - They were the same, just uploaded two by mistake.

    Thanks for taking a look @lymond - I am curios what you found.

    I was able to survive, but not thrive, personally.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
  4. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @SittinDown T50
    Spoiler :
    Played sloppily to T50 and to me the map seems easy, close to auto-win seeing what you have up north. No immortal AI has any chance vs early cats, no matter if he has 8 str early UU or not. If you want to be safe, start the war with elephants but I'm going for archerpult and wellie reinforcements come later. Nice that no need for fishing so you can bulb engineering if you want go for straight conquest.

    No idea why I was so slow with 3rd city/worker (city on ph-rice). Have granaries at least. Met Julius T5 so I know he can't be far. Saw no need for early exploration to the south, it's desert and it's clear 2nd city is going north.

    Civ4ScreenShot0290.JPG
     
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  5. SittinDown

    SittinDown King Supporter

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    And this is why I post this here. :)

    Spoiler :

    I wound up in a war with the Romans that burned up a lot of time. I wasn't sure how to avoid an early DOW, but I think maybe I over-settled, rather than concentrating on 2 cities so I could tech to construction and break out. I was trying to REX, and I didn't pull that off very well.
     
  6. Qactus

    Qactus Romani ite domum

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    I can't bring myself to finish a single game these days, so these "play 60T and compare"-games are perfect for me - also why I loved the format of the recent cookbook series.

    Spoiler T60 summary :
    I moved the warrior south of the PH to check, but didn't like the surroundings. Compared with many here I'm quite (probably too) reluctant to sacrifice much for the extra hammer, so I moved the settler N-NW and in this case got rewarded I guess.

    Being on the peninsula, I thought I could afford to send one warrior to explore, which gave me some barb problems which I survived with some luck. Second city got delayed by two turns because of an archer which I managed to kill. Second archer killed my warrior, who got avenged, but then I had to flee a barb spear (!) which thankfully was removed by Romans.

    Traded Gems vs. Crabs to Julius to be the one who decides when our war starts. EP on Ethiopia.

    Second settler was whipped in capital the moment City 2 had grown to size two on the corn so it could take over gems.

    Julius settled my originally preferred spot for City 4, so it has to go 1S of Elephants now, which is probably better anyway. Will try to chop the forest first before settling there.

    Now Construction (build barracks and Catapults) - Animal Husbandry - Horseback Riding (build Elephants) - Attack Rome Hannibal-style.


    Spoiler Tech path :
    Civ4ScreenShot0081.JPG


    Spoiler Overview :
    Civ4ScreenShot0080.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @SittinDown
    Spoiler :
    Yep, don't REX when the land isn't great. 3 cities is a good amount pre-war. Though perhaps there is something tempting in the south, I haven't even scouted so what do I know. :)
     
  8. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @Qactus
    Spoiler :
    If you have time, I suggest you to try settling on the ph, play and compare. I think it actually beats the double gems spot - T11 worker is just so much better than T16 worker.
     
  9. Qactus

    Qactus Romani ite domum

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    Following @sampsa 's advice I settled on the PH for comparison.
    Spoiler T60 PH :
    Settled gem city with only one gem in the first ring, because I figured capital's 3rd ring would come in time. This probably delayed the second mine a bit, but settled 1t faster, saved a forest and gained coastal access which I really like one city to have for trade connections.
    Obviously still a bit behind in tech (because of later gems), but catching up quickly with a considerably higher tech rate due to more tile improvements. Libraries coming up in Gems and Capital. Compact 3-city-approach will further help to reach Construction and HBR faster.
    Only problem: Julius started plotting T44 and might very well target us. But that's hardly a consequence of the settling decision.
    So yeah, I think I knew it already, but actually comparing it helped. Things that further boosted PH settling here were EXP trait and moving away from coast instead of towards it. The latter led to no barb encounters at all.
    :thumbsup:

    Spoiler T60 PH overview :
    Civ4ScreenShot0082.JPG


    I ignored Julius' plotting to not having it ruin the comparison. Otherwise would've squeezed in Archery.
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    T104, something like this?
    Spoiler :

    Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG
     
  11. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    (Will write before reading spoilers)

    Played 50T.
    Spoiler :
    Looks like a strong start tbh, but after exploring a little I can see what would cause issues. Julius is close to our south, separated by a desert. We're pretty restricted for land on a peninsula. There are more AIs, but I've only met three so far, and Hammi was recent. Zara is somewhere to the SE, so maybe his borders have locked out others from getting through.

    Suspect(ed) there is a resource on the PH due to forests around it, but settled on it anyway. Such a strong start with being EXP. 10-turn worker. Nice surprise with the rice, but I feared having killed seafood. Turns out there is no seafood anywhere, not even up north, which I really hoped for. Makes settling a little awkward, coupled with the jungle, but there is room for 6-7 cities, so it should be fine really. May actually have to self-tech IW here, but first there are other priorities. Like securing land.

    Frustrating to lose out on the Gems by moving, but no way to know about that (I moved warrior SW). Went Mining->BW from the start, and suppose there was a tiny boost from meeting Julius before T5, due to postponing selecting a tech.

    Unusual for me, but built an early second worker. Not directly, wanted a warrior first, but before the settler. We have a lot of forests here, get a boost on workers anyway, don't have that many good tiles to work, and it's beneficial to chop out settlers.

    Timing was quite nice. Second city was settled west, which can work the Ivory and help with cottages once those are up. Will get access to rice too, but obviously that is blocked by jungle for now. As a result of chopping, the next settler is out in 2520BC.

    Immortal Mehmed-3rd settler.jpg

    Third city went south by the marble in T40. The very same turn Julius settled on the desert hill, but thankfully that didn't ruin the intended city location. No food of its own, but has an oasis, and can later get the spice (also 3-food). Just a support city, but does grab the marble, which may be important later.

    Immortal Mehmed-3rd city.jpg

    The worker on the spice is actually roading, because I didn't want to chop down that forest. It's a decent tile to work, even unimproved. Later he will chop the forest 1S, and then farm it.

    After first getting out a warrior to help fogbust the north (luckily no barbs spawned there in the meantime), I'm chopping out a new worker in the second city, despite being only size 1 at the time.

    Immortal Mehmed-Size 1 worker.jpg
    After getting out a warrior of its own while growing to size 4, I decide to whip a settler in the capital. Hurts cottage development a little, but I want to get a city up north in preparation of borders expanding and covering the Gems. It can borrow the rice as needed.

    Fourth city is settled in T50, so that was kinda fortunate given I thought we did 50-turn sets. I see there are several 60T instead, but I stopped here.

    Immortal Mehmed-T50.jpg

    Should have enough gold to still get Writing in two turns. However, what may also be observed, is rather stark news. Possibly.

    Julius is plotting!! :eek::gripe::run:

    He started plotting around 2200BC. What the hell can you do if he happens to plot on us? That early? Not a whole bloody lot. He doesn't have access to Praetorians yet (no brag), but he may well have IW already, so it may not be long until he does. Slightly calmed by the Axe in Cumae moving away and not in our direction, but can't know what is really happening there, and if he has picked a target yet. If it's on us, we're basically fecked. No strategic resource yet, though it's possible we have either Iron or Horses somewhere. Not that horses does us much good anyway against him, but yeah...

    Edit: Oh, the rice wasn't jungled? It was when I saw it in the very early turns :sad:
    Edit again: Went back through some manual and autosaves. Earliest autosave still has it jungled. In T6, when capital borders expands, it isn't jungled. But in T11 when the worker is out, the rice is already jungled. Pretty bad luck in this game!! (except with barbs, as none showed up)

    Immortal Mehmed-rice already jungled.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
  12. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @SittinDown
    Spoiler :

    This is a nice way to avoid the wrath of Julius, although one should probably do it way earlier.
    I beelined alphabet to possibly gain something nice from the AIs, but the only thing I got was IW so not sure that was bright.
    But the turn I discovered alpha, julius demanded writing, so I just gave him that and didn't have to bother.
    I wanted to gift a city to Darius, but b the time I had the settler ready he didn't want any city anymore, so I just gave it to Zara, his creative trait will make sure to push borders with Julius soon.
    Didn't pan out like I wanted though, couldn't bribe anyone and no fireworks started between them. :/
    Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG
     
  13. SittinDown

    SittinDown King Supporter

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    thanks for the replies everyone - I am not feeling well today and wont' be playing. I'll check it out tomorrow.
     
  14. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Sorry to hear that, and hope you feel better tomorrow :)

    Edit: About the other games/mine
    Spoiler :
    Having read the spoilers about the shadows, I'm not feeling too hot about postponing the Gems locations for that long. I'm way behind in teching, with several at or practically Math already (although in fairness many have played 60T instead of 50T, like I did). The first city should quite possibly have gone north-west instead of west, so it could work one of the gems instantly. Or even place it so it can work both instantly.

    Essentially I went for REX here instead of setting up for early warfare. I tend to prefer to play for the longer game, I suppose.
     
  15. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Played to T60 so it's easier to compare.
    Spoiler :
    Still way behind in techs, but am working one Gem now, and have a fresh settler ready to settle the other Gem next turn, and a worker ready to improve it. Granaries are up in all cities. The worker in Ankara can be whipped this turn.

    I've seen some Axes and Spears in Roman lands, but it's not clear yet if he targets us, but I assume he is tbh. Haven't gone Archery yet, but it feels like it wouldn't help much anyway. From reading the other spoilers, I know he has not only capital copper, but capital iron too, which means Praets in the near future. Even with a million archers, he'll merely farm XP and get through. So I basically just played this for economic training. If Julius DOWs us in 3 turns or whatever, we're dead either way. No stack as of yet, but if he DOWs with 3 axes and 2 spears or something like that, it's not like I can defend it in the near future. Can spend the gold on Archery + Masonry and cross our fingers, but yeah... :undecide:

    Immortal Mehmed-T60.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Couldn't help myself, and played further. T100-ish now.
    Spoiler :
    Julius did indeed plot on us, but it took a while before he pulled the trigger. When he did, he also dragged in Zara in the very same turn, so they both DOWed. But by then I had diverted (from Math) to get Archery and Masonry, and had preventively built Walls. Given he didn't have Praets yet, we were able to hold the line. Went a little far with archers, I suppose...

    Immortal Mehmed-T79 JC stack loss.jpg

    More guys are coming, but we defeat those too without losses. After three or four 'rounds', we sign a peace treaty (earlier he wanted the city). A while later I sign a peace treaty with Zara too, in exchange for Math. No action seen there, but I wanted to end hostilities before something nasty happened.

    Also, thank you Julius for building HG and the GLH back-to-back. Did you know that elephants like gardens? :mischief:

    Immortal Mehmed-wonders.jpg

    Got a GS, and thought about waiting until I could bulb Machinery for Crossbows. But would first need Aesthetics + Metal Casting, which would take quite a while. So I built an Academy instead, and probably saved about 2 turns on getting Construction + HBR.

    Now I believe it is time to move out. Few elephants for now, but there are 7 catas with more on the way, plus a few Axes, so maybe it will be okay. I've only spotted on Praetorian so far, which is pretty odd given he has had Iron for about 15 turns (shortly before we peaced out). He's plotting again, which Hammurabi has done for a good while too. Darius and Saladin dropped by, but the last AI is still missing. Maybe it's a really strange land. It's supposed to be a Pangaea, tho?

    Immortal Mehmed-T102 time to move out.jpg

    Slower than @krikav who I see captured Rome in T104, but I needed some time to deal with all those stacks, and settling gems so late probably postponed things for me. Still have a million archers, so they'll join the war effort as cleanup and city defenders.
     

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  17. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Very nice @Pangaea ! Stallwart defence. When that red fist shows it's no time to be fooling around.
    Weird how the techpace was different. I think that most AIs where still lacking math at T104 in my game.
    I bulbed it myself.
     
  18. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @Pangaea
    Spoiler :
    Those gems are really good tiles and you definitely should be aiming to work them asap! Gems >> gold, because working gems doesn't drain your :food:-supplies, thus they remain as very strong tiles even after granary+:)-cap explosion.
     
  19. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    T60
    Spoiler :
    All needed cities are up with granaries, rice-city skips barracks. So no more buildings, unless I whip a hammam in capital. Library isn't high on my priorities. 4 workers, should be enough even with this amount of forest. Deleted 3 warriors, again an indication that I've made some technical mistakes so far. At least strategy-wise it's exactly where I want it to be.

    Civ4ScreenShot0291.JPG
    Attack plan: take out most of his units in Antium or outside of it, then push to Rome. The lake helps me to spy what's inside Rome after declaring.

    Civ4ScreenShot0292.JPG
     
  20. SittinDown

    SittinDown King Supporter

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    Spoiler T-100 Spoiler :

    Obviously I played this way too far to get real advice the first time I played it.

    I made some pretty egregious mistakes, in my opinion. I did some things okay, and I don't think I've lost this game yet, but I certainly made it a hard time.

    I can bribe Peter into war against the Romans, and Ethopia is pleased with me, so he hasn't DOW'ed me yet. I can switch to his religion if that changes to maintain the peace.

    Bad:
    1) I played too fast. (110 turns in 1:20).
    2) I settled Ankara 3rd way off and without any food in the 1st ring, hoping to out-flank the Romans. I think this was the most critical mistake. Given that I had ivory and gems, I should have just gone for a 3-city zone, and broke out with Elepults. I was worried that the marble-oasis was too weak.
    3) Bad war tactics. I burned good offensive units trying to counterstrike a bunch of preats to save my capital. Probably unnecessary, and cost me valuable invasion time and resources.
    4) I lost Ankara early in the war before I could get it set up, further wasting my 3rd city.

    Questionable:
    1) I used the first GS for an academy in the capital. I was already at war at that point and wanted to speed up construction. But now it'll be hard to bulb philosophy.
    2) I kept settling cities after the war started to grab iron after I traded for it, rather than building units. However, I hadn't yet teched construction, so this was to counter Praets with something better than archers.

    Good points:
    1) I Settled Edrine decently fast for double gems, and I'm teching well.
    2) First to Code of Laws.
    3) Avoided Alpha, but traded around for Iron Working.

    I'm not sure why, but the Romans have a preat and a spear parked on the PH 2 E of Istanbul, but they never try to pillage or attack, so I started ignoring them.

    upload_2021-2-5_23-11-24.png

     

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