Immortal Portugal Photojournal (of an amateur)

[amateurgamer88]

Hi everyone! I'm amateurgamer88. I have recently started immortal and my first two games have been horrible. My last game as Mongolia, as shown in my photojournal, has progressed well (no details so that will spoil it). As the title suggests, I am going to play as Portugal. Do note that this is my first time playing this civ on VP so it should be interesting.

I know I'm not a great player so I appreciate any advice as I want to learn more. I have many areas lacking so feel free to point them out to me. I like to improve more as I actually want to eventually play and win some deity matches. As a result, I'm doing these photojournals so people can see what I'm doing wrong and give me constructive criticism.

An additional note is that, due to various reasons, I have to play this game windowed so, in later eras, you'll see the various things like gold, resources and etc overlapping. I also have to lower my graphic setting so my game can run smoother. I apologize for that but it's the limitations I work with.

Spoiler Game Settings :

Immortal (7) Difficulty
Marathon Speed
Large Size, 10 civs, 20 city states
Continents
Strategic Balance
No events, vassalage, ancient ruins, tech brokering and tech trading

The Patch used in this game is 10-10. It should be with hotfix unless I messed this up terribly.

Normally, I stick with Pangaea but, for this game, I'm going continents since it utilizes Portugal's UU.

Spoiler Initial Thoughts on the Civilization :

Mare Clausum:
Science, Gold and either GA/GG points for cargo ships/caravans definitely put an emphasis on trade route. I have, as some of you noticed, neglected to use all of my trade routes in some of my past games. I feel like this is certainly one of those games where I must fully utilize the trade units to my best ability. We will have to see how the game develops depending on my neighbors and how the other continent develops.

Feitoria:
This UI has two parts to it. First, it can be constructed in my territory on coastal tiles and cannot be adjacent to one another or be on top of resources. It makes coastal tiles slightly better and coastal tiles with resources a bit stronger as well. It does come once Compass is unlocked so it's fairly late in the game. I can see that I will have little advantage in the early game so we'll see how that will work out. The second aspect is City States but that's available once I get Nau. This gives a nice boost to happiness and trade routes with City States. I can certainly see myself going statecraft if I want to take advantage of trading with City States.

Nau:
I can definitely use a better version of a caravel as this is when naval units become noticeably stronger. Getting a bit more experience by unloading their cargo with city states seems like a no brainer but, looking at the civilopedia, it also mentions other players. I'm a little confused on how that works but I guess I'll figure it out as I go (just like Mongolia's UA). Though, City State should be a priority as trade routes are also boosted through this.

Spoiler Starting Location :

Let's see the starting location. I'll be doing my first update soonish.

My initial thought are either move a tile to the left so I can have a canal city or stay where I'm at. The body of water north of the whales are lakes so that means it's closed off Staying where I'm at means I'll have the hills to work with earlier. Whales are an alright resources to have in the early game but it does mean I need Fishing to connect them and that's a bit too much of a detour for me. I'm curious to see how the situation develops and I look forward to the new naval combat.

 

[YukiN]

I would have moved, just to get freshwater in the city and to work the lake tiles immediately. 3 food 1 hammer is really strong. You are also playing on Marathon, so losing a turn is far less important. I also like the faster first building from the settlement chop.

I wouldn't worry about production too much. All the tiles you are likely to work early have a point of production, and past midgame those forests and hills should be in your city borders.

 

[amateurgamer88]

I would have moved, just to get freshwater in the city and to work the lake tiles immediately. 3 food 1 hammer is really strong. You are also playing on Marathon, so losing a turn is far less important. I also like the faster first building from the settlement chop.

I wouldn't worry about production too much. All the tiles you are likely to work early have a point of production, and past midgame those forests and hills should be in your city borders.

My next update will explain my decision. You make some good points and I'll try my best responding to them in the update.

 

[amateurgamer88]

Chapter 1: Beginnings of a Trade Power?

Spoiler I. Lisbon is Found :

After some thoughts, I decided to settle where I'm at. A canal city is nice but I don't have enough intel on how useful that canal city is. I'm also using strategic balance so I don't want to move further away from my starting location as I might move away from the important resources like horses and iron. While lakes give some solid yields, I don't know how useful it will be since, early on, I will be working the whales and growth will be stagnant once I start getting settlers to expand. Without enough information about my surroundings, I felt my starting location is the safer option compared to moving away.

Spoiler II. We have India! :

I now know we have India as a civ in this game since the Pantheon is found on turn 1. Goddess of Protection actually seems quite strong since it takes awhile for other civs to get their pantheon and India will have a huge head start for their religion. One thing I realize is that, given how little information you have on resources around your territory on turn one, India picking a pantheon so early on is a double edged sword for sure.

Spoiler III. Hello Austria! :

I know I want to befriend CS to take advantage of my UI and Austria will pose a big problem given their UA. Since I found Austria first, I believe it's safe to say that we will be at war first. Of course, my exploration did take awhile before I found any AI so, for all I know, Austria can be very far away too. I hope they are close since we'll be on an even playing field early on and I can eliminate Austria before her strengths come into play.

Spoiler IV. Hi Korea! :

Korea can be an interesting AI to face in the game. This AI can be wiped out easily early on but, if allowed to snowball a bit with science, Korea can be very difficult to defeat. I found Korea shortly after meeting Austria but Seoul is still some distance from my capital. When we'll fight wars depends on where Korea expands its cities. If they settle too close to me, then Korea will feel my wrath for sure.

Spoiler V. Sweden Again... :

For whatever reason, Sweden seems to be very popular in my photojournals as they made an appearance in two of my last three games. Now they appear again and who knows how they will perform. Will they be a military powerhouse or another AI facing too many enemies and crumble under pressure? Will they pose a threat to Portugal or be merely a nuisance in the grand scheme of things? We'll find out soon.

Spoiler VI. Hey Carthage! :

From my experience, Carthage can be a bad neighbor to have given how rapidly this civ likes to expand. When I play Carthage, I also like to expand rapidly since that extra bit of gold just gets cities off the ground very quickly. I feel like Progress just works so well with Carthage but I have seen Carthage AI going Authority before. We'll see how Carthage will perform in this game then.

Spoiler VII. Stockholm Very Far Away :

Sweden is fortunate they aren't close to my territory. Otherwise, they will feel the wrath of...just kidding. Portugal isn't stellar in the early game except for their UA and I don't intend on going to war early on either. If anything, Sweden possess a UA better suited for war (I still need to play them for the first time so hopefully soon). Looking at the minimap, you'll see me quite "isolated" in my little corner. This seems like a great starting position and, regrettably, that canal city seems amazing now but I won't save scum and will live with my decision.

Spoiler VIII. Going Progress! :

Progress seems like a nice policy tree to go here since I have quite a bit of space to expand to. Authority would also work well but I just played Mongolia and like a change for once. This doesn't mean I won't go to war but I certainly do intend on taking advantage of whatever tools Progress gives me. If anything, I feel like Progress is more suited to my style than Authority but that's a discussion for another day.

Spoiler IX. The Hun's Here :

I'm quite relieved that I found the Huns this late because I don't want them as a neighbor. Going Progress isn't going to help me since I won't be focusing on infrastructure as much. I am curious what AI is unfortunate enough to share borders with the Huns because it can get nasty pretty early. However, I had games where Attila stays peaceful in the early game so that's a possibility too.

Spoiler X. How? :

I'm still trying to figure out how Austria and Sweden have such a massive lead in tech count. Austria went Tradition (I think) and Sweden definitely went Authority. I don't recall either of them giving such a bonus to science with the policy opener. Only Progress does that and they don't have it. I turned off ruins so that can't be the reason. I guess some AIs just happen to be focusing on the cheaper techs but the turns just don't make sense to me. Oh well, I have some catching up to do then.

Well, that's it for our first update! More exploration awaits us!

 

[YukiN]

I have played plenty of games on strategic balance, and I feel like you are over-valuing not moving away from resources. In this case, your horses are probably on the plains or grassland tile to the northeast, so you still have that within three tiles of your cap. You can probably also settle a nearby city to capture the tile if it is important and your cap has no shortage of tiles to work in this location; I might find it somewhat painful if the tile I proposed turned out to be bananas or iron but I can live with it.

Whether or not Lisbon is a canal city is not that big a deal to me. It's coastal so seaports are available, and you can link the lake to the ocean using fortresses, though that likely eats up a village spot. What concerns me more is still that you only have one strong tile to work with without expanding, and tile aquisition will not keep up with growth by far.

With regards to AI science, maybe Austria got their council before their first Tradition policy for a boost, but this does seem weird.

 

[CrazyG]

I also would have moved towards that lake, just because the cost of 1 turn on Marathon is so small.

 

[Minh Le]

The massive AI tech lead would come from CS quest to discover a Civ. It gives massive science early game. I had one game where I jumped 3 techs in ancient era by finding a Civ to complete 4 quests...

 

[YukiN]

Have you thought about what pantheon you will be taking?

 

[amateurgamer88]

I have played plenty of games on strategic balance, and I feel like you are over-valuing not moving away from resources. In this case, your horses are probably on the plains or grassland tile to the northeast, so you still have that within three tiles of your cap. You can probably also settle a nearby city to capture the tile if it is important and your cap has no shortage of tiles to work in this location; I might find it somewhat painful if the tile I proposed turned out to be bananas or iron but I can live with it.

Whether or not Lisbon is a canal city is not that big a deal to me. It's coastal so seaports are available, and you can link the lake to the ocean using fortresses, though that likely eats up a village spot. What concerns me more is still that you only have one strong tile to work with without expanding, and tile aquisition will not keep up with growth by far.

With regards to AI science, maybe Austria got their council before their first Tradition policy for a boost, but this does seem weird.

The horses being three tiles means I don't know when my border will spread there since it's pretty random as to where the border goes with all that rough terrain with no resources. It's true I overvalue the resources but horses and iron are easy source of gold through trade and I like to make use of that gold to get my other cities off the ground faster.

I do agree with Lisbon having only one tile to work with until I get border expansion. That bit of food can make quite the difference on my capital's pop before I start settler production. Overall, I have made my decision and, while the consequence of it remains to be seen, I like to live with it to see how things will develop. I'm still learning to optimize my play so I'll keep these in mind.

You'd think the other AIs would have similar number of techs but they are on part with me and I took Progress. It does seem quite weird though.

I also would have moved towards that lake, just because the cost of 1 turn on Marathon is so small.

I'll be sure to keep that in mind in future games. I've already gone through with it and it's better to keep going seeing the impact of this move.

The massive AI tech lead would come from CS quest to discover a Civ. It gives massive science early game. I had one game where I jumped 3 techs in ancient era by finding a Civ to complete 4 quests...

Then the AI has to be extremely lucky then. I've done this quest for one CS and it's almost enough for one of the cheaper techs. To have two AIs getting a number of these quests and completing them on turn 75 on Marathon Speed is quite a feat. One AI seems plausible but two of them just seem like the game is stacked against me.

Have you thought about what pantheon you will be taking?

The Pantheon I have in mind is the one with fishing boat (God of the Sea) since it will benefit me sooner with my whales (and hopefully some fish as well). I will have to reveal more of the map but, if I'm focused on coastal cities and resources, then I think that's one of the more viable ones. Goddess of Fertility is also an option since I feel like I'm quite limited with what I have right now with my starting location.

 

[YukiN]

Given the amount of space you have and you lack of immediate neighbours, non-terrain dependent pantheons like commerce, love, wisdom and god-king seem better.

 

[amateurgamer88]

Given the amount of space you have and you lack of immediate religious neighbours, commerce, love, fertility, wisdom and god-king all seem better than the yields you get from a few boats.

You give some interesting suggestions. I don't see how God of Commerce can be useful since I won't be getting city connections anytime soon and lighthouses are some way away. 2 and 2 seems alright for my capital once I get my second city but then the bonuses just seem very lacking as I don't expect a stellar gold income until later. Goddess of Love seems limited since, once I start building settlers, my capital won't be growing anymore. I'm not sure how much growth I'll gain for my other cities to make this very worthwhile. Goddess of Wisdom seems alright but I won't have enough happiness to spam that many cities. God-king, like Goddess of Love, seems heavily dependent on the growth of my cities and I just don't know how much I'll get out of it. Goddess of Fertility definitely has some good yields but, having taken it a number of times in my previous games (not my photojournals), I don't want to take the same one as it gets stale. I appreciate the advice though and will keep them in mind for future games.

 

[YukiN]

I'm looking at it this way: you are playing wide with progress, which naturally means more real pop. Small cities naturally grow fast. You also took progress which means faster connections than most. Building more cities also means more shrines for faith income, and you have no immediate neighbours to worry about, so you can be greedy and pick something that scales better.

The same argument for investment can also be applied to boats. They are pretty expensive for a single tile improvement.

 

[amateurgamer88]

I'm looking at it this way: you are playing wide with progress, which naturally means more real pop. Small cities naturally grow fast. You also took progress which means faster connections than most. Building more cities also means more shrines for faith income, and you have no immediate neighbours to worry about, so you can be greedy and pick something that scales better.

The same argument for investment can also be applied to boats. They are pretty expensive for a single tile improvement.

You make some good points and I will keep them in mind for the future. I guess my playstyle is different and sometime I prioritize different things. While boats are expensive, I do need them for my monopoly and you'll see how they work out in future updates.

 

[amateurgamer88]

Chapter 2: Locating All Neighbors

Spoiler I. There are the Huns :

I haven't discovered the Hunnic capital but their second city gives a good proximity of their location. They are fairly close to Sweden so this can be very interesting as they will no doubt be at war in the foreseeable future. Who will be the victor? After playing the Huns, I'm greatly disappointed with their UA so I think Sweden will come out victorious. I feel like, with the recent changes to war weariness, the Hunnic UA will hurt them more than it helps them.

Spoiler II. Located the Carthage Capital :

Carthage is in her own little corner and that can be a problem since it gives Dido a lot of room to expand. When I say a lot of room, I mean a lot of room. This might bring Carthage in conflict with the Huns sooner but I feel like, this early on, Carthage will have a significant edge with its UA. I also don't expect Korea to expand that quickly either so Carthage will likely also expand towards their southeast with little hindrance.

Spoiler III. Best CS Quest Early On :

I was very confused as I was struggling to find where Austria is at. In the end, they happened to be at the last location I looked and it's kinda annoying for sure. Now, I haven't talked about my tech much but I mostly beelined to trade to get that trade route immediately. I want to make use of the Portuguese UA as soon as I can as it gives me gold, science and GG points. I'm going for Sailing next because I do want to get the Great Lighthouse to give my navy a significant boost.

Spoiler IV. My Closest Neighbor :

I said before that Austria will pose a serious threat since their UA will make them a big rival when it comes to CS. They are also the closest civ to my capital that I know of so wars will be inevitable. The terrain around here will be interesting since the civ with the stronger navy will reign supreme. The narrow strip of territory will make any land invasions a grind as I need to find for every tile in a bloodbath. I need to get my navy up as soon as I can.

Spoiler V. New Policy :

I decide to ignore a free worker for now because most of my resources I need to connect urgently are coastal so a worker isn't very useful. I'd rather get a bit more production for each of my city for now and get Expertise next so improving on infrastructure will give me even more benefits. Let's not forget that I can make caravans faster too. I won't need a worker until I get animal husbandry and that will depend on where the horses are at. I'm really neglecting my military at the moment for sure.

Spoiler VI. Picking Pantheon :

After some thoughts, I decided to take God of the Sea to give all my future cities an early boost to their growth. I have to connect coastal resources anyways so the extra bit of hammer and faith will be nice. I know there are some better pantheons but I don't feel like this is too bad. It's just a good boost early on when I need it more and I'll let Progress carry me more during the mid and late game.

Spoiler VII. Birth of Porto :

Porto is found and I decided to go rather greedily to secure the location. It will deny Austria any cities from this side of the mountain range and it will give me a source of silver. I will eventually need to settle northwest of Porto along this coast to deny the AIs any chance to settle around here and, luckily, Austria is settling away from me for now. This mountain range does make things interesting since it will force me to rely more heavily on my navy if I want to take Austrian cities.

Spoiler VIII. Sweden is Wonder Orientated? :

I don't know what makes AIs go for Wonders but Sweden just built Stonehenge. This is a bit worrying provided that Attila is pretty close and Sweden might become a juicy and vulnerable target. In this screenshot, we see Austria and invasion by land will be a nightmare. However, I can't exactly neglect my army either since the rest of the continent is large piece of land inaccessible by sea and I need some presence to deal with future warmongers like Attila.

Spoiler IX. Birth of Braga :

To take more advantage of the lake, I settled Braga close to it. Now, some might think I'm being too passive with my cities and settle them too close. However, I don't have the happiness to spam my cities and I pick locations that will get me my whale monopoly sooner. I will admit that I'm not too happy with where all the whales are at so some cities won't do as well, though God of the Sea will help them to a certain extent.

Spoiler X. Birth of Coimbra :

I got my fourth city and I don't think I can support more cities with my current happiness. Coimbra will at least get me the crabs to help with the happiness a bit but its borders won't be expanding anytime soon. As tempting as it is to settle on that peninsula, I don't just like a city with five coastal tiles where navy might play a major role in my wars against Austria. I might have to buy some tiles if I want Coimbra to get off the ground. For now, I have secured this side of the coast and just take the other locations later as I have no real competition for now.

Well, that's it for our update! Will my lack of greed hurt me later in the game?

 

[YukiN]

I think your choice is correct. Boats looking much better now that I can see the map; there are more coastal settles and resources than I had thought, and would be even better when you take Austria's land. Just watch your production since you are warring Austria early and your faith income since it'll be lower earlier on.

Somewhat unfortunate that some of your whales are only reachable from desert.

 

[amateurgamer88]

I think your choice is correct. Boats looking much better now that I can see the map; there are more coastal settles and resources than I had thought, and would be even better when you take Austria's land. Just watch your production since you are warring Austria early and your faith income since it'll be lower earlier on.

Somewhat unfortunate that some of your whales are only reachable from desert.

How would you recommend warring against Austria early? Vienna doesn't have many coastal tiles next to it and triremes and dromons can only do so much when Austria gets Archers. As for whales, I would've preferred better placement but that isn't always possible. It's not terrible but it can definitely be better.

 

[YukiN]

I would have camped for the worker with the pathfinder for starters. Ancient era declarations don't net you that much warmonger score, and it puts you two workers ahead relative to her. Maybe another reason I don't feel worker shortage and thus like god of commerce is because I just grab them from AI. That ship has sailed though, so let's move on.

Scout out the other side. The tile that was black to the east of vienna would probably be where your catapult goes. The catapult is the key to breaking the city. Since the space is only two tiles wide, it should be relatively easy to protect if you can place blockers on the forest hill and farm. Those units should be fortified while the catapult kills the city. Once you take the city, sue for peace.

If Austria expands East (probably will), take that expand first and try to kill some of Austria's units.

I wouldn't worry too much about archers. The AI tend to like spears more, so just make sure they can't get to you. Dromons also trade decently against archers if you can focus them by move shoot move.

Early is also relative, so don't go in before late classical thereabouts. Make sure your capital updates infrastructure after done pumping settlers, build a barracks then switch to units and prep for war.

 

[chicorbeef]

I think you're in a solid position, it's hard to get attacked where you are (that mountain range though) and I think you control these seas pretty firmly. You also have two CSes in your backyard to send TRs to uncontested.

That CS quest is wack on Marathon, apparently. You have so much Science so early...turn 90 (equivalent to turn 30 on Standard) researching Sailing is crazy.

I definitely wouldn't say you'r "neglecting your military" because it's so early in the game, no meaningful conflict is going to happen for now anyway....

I like your city locations (maybe Coimbra could have been settled close to the sea resources, but, I absolutely see why you're concerned....it's just that I expect you to have naval dominance).

If you choose to attack Austria (I don't even think you have to), that territory looks vulnerable to Dromons. Long skinny peninsula.

 

[amateurgamer88]

I would have camped for the worker with the pathfinder for starters. Ancient era declarations don't net you that much warmonger score, and it puts you two workers ahead relative to her. Maybe another reason I don't feel worker shortage and thus like god of commerce is because I just grab them from AI. That ship has sailed though, so let's move on.

Scout out the other side. The tile that was black to the east of vienna would probably be where your catapult goes. The catapult is the key to breaking the city. Since the space is only two tiles wide, it should be relatively easy to protect if you can place blockers on the forest hill and farm. Those units should be fortified while the catapult kills the city. Once you take the city, sue for peace.

If Austria expands East (probably will), take that expand first and try to kill some of Austria's units.

I wouldn't worry too much about archers. The AI tend to like spears more, so just make sure they can't get to you. Dromons also trade decently against archers if you can focus them by move shoot move.

Early is also relative, so don't go in before late classical thereabouts. Make sure your capital updates infrastructure after done pumping settlers, build a barracks then switch to units and prep for war.

I found Vienna so late so it was definitely past that. However, the issue here is that it's such a dangerous trip getting that worker back to my capital given the terrain. I don't want to risk losing my pathfinder for a worker that may or may not even reach safety.

Wouldn't a catapult on the hill with the silver in the screenshot be better? I just need two melee units and rotate them back and forth while my catapult deal with the city. I find the AI in the newest patch tend to delay the walls by a lot for whatever reason.

As for where they're expanding, I don't want to spoil it. However, it's mostly deserts to the east so it's not even that great and attacks will be tough. I also noticed they build spears a lot more but they have a few archers. And I don't know if I'll have the production to get a catapult, some melee units and dromons. That might delay things too much.

As for preparing for war, let's just say I'm not as eager since I'm not going Authority. I might be focusing on infrastructure too much early on.

I think you're in a solid position, it's hard to get attacked where you are (that mountain range though) and I think you control these seas pretty firmly. You also have two CSes in your backyard to send TRs to uncontested.

That CS quest is wack on Marathon, apparently. You have so much Science so early...turn 90 (equivalent to turn 30 on Standard) researching Sailing is crazy.

I definitely wouldn't say you'r "neglecting your military" because it's so early in the game, no meaningful conflict is going to happen for now anyway....

I like your city locations (maybe Coimbra could have been settled close to the sea resources, but, I absolutely see why you're concerned....it's just that I expect you to have naval dominance).

If you choose to attack Austria (I don't even think you have to), that territory looks vulnerable to Dromons. Long skinny peninsula.

The location of the CSs are great and I'm not worried about being attacked early. As for later, then that's a different matter as you'll eventually see. And that quest is pretty nice and, if I get lucky, I get the same quest from a couple of CS and that's a ton of science in a single turn.

The funny thing is that even the barbarians are largely leaving me alone so I haven't bothered with military units at all except for a few. I only have a warrior and pathfinder at this point. Just investing my gold elsewhere.

For Coimbra, I don't know when I'll be investing more in naval supremacy so I don't want to risk making it overly vulnerable. And that location just helps prevent anymore cities settled along this coast. As for attacking Austria, I would be more aggressive if she was closer. However, the terrain isn't making early wars possible.

 

[tu_79]

A thing people overlook is how feitoria bonuses stack up. They can't be built adjacent to another feitoria, but a tongue of sea makes wonders. Having three feitorias boosting the same tile rocks.