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Immortal post-patch

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Txurce, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    I just completed my first post-patch game on Immortal, standard continents, with India. Some history and observations:

    Using the National College start I stayed current in tech, but then lost ground to the bigger civs, because I lacked the gold to pay for Maritimes or RA’s early on. The number and make-up of nearby luxuries makes a big difference. I was also in a war with Japan from early on, which slowed me down. Getting the right balance early on of gold, beakers and units is key.

    Some AI spam cities to a scary degree, in light of how hard they are to take. These builds are effectively a war strategy. My neighbors were luxury-driven. I stopped settlers by buying a luxury tile on three separate occasions.

    By the time Japan declared war on me again in the mid-game, we were even in techs – longswordsmen and knights, with me just getting cannon. Egypt (who had the FOY) had a city next to us with MI. Rome – even bigger than Egypt – built the Manhattan Project in 1440. Egypt was in Future Tech in the 1600s. This helps explain why there’s more AI size fluctuation in the highest levels - the tech differences are potentially bigger.

    I signed a defensive pact with Egypt as Japan massed against me. (This is a first for me.) When Japan attacked, the Egyptian MI struck. Two Japanese cities quickly fell. I then tagged along and sneaked a knight into a city about to fall, then sold it to Egypt. Soon after Rome declared war on Egypt, and Egypt quit applying units to the Japanese war. This allowed me to take the last six Japanese cities with two cannon, two knights and a rifleman.

    The gold I made from these multiple sales to Egypt allowed me to rush public schools and do two cycles of slingshotted RA’s. These put me back in the game, pre-patch – meaning I was still way behind the leaders, but with a good chance of sneaking in a space race victory.

    Early in the 19th century the UN was built. As the vote approached I noticed that Genoa kept being bought back and forth. I thought that I’d been right in only befriending Maritimes rather than competing for alliances. Then the vote came in… and Arabia won the game in 1826!

    Clearly they had focused on a diplomatic victory, and bought their way to a win. But Rome had about 45,000g, and wound up with only 3 votes – so they paid no real attention to the vote. And of course Egypt had Future Tech in the 1600s, but never built the Apollo Project.

    The AI is clearly playing much better, making the game much better. Diplomacy clearly makes a difference. My biggest conclusion from a distance is that without a tech advantage conquest will be tough to achieve, thanks to the major city defense buffs.
     
  2. MykC

    MykC Warlord

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    Yeah, the thing on immortal that I'm find is:

    I can be ahead in military tech but not for long.

    I'm ahead up until rifles but they will have Infantry first, by like 25-30 turns. Tech seems to rely heavily on large population cities. With only 1 specialist slot available within any time frame before the game should be over its impossible to generate great scientist outside of your capital. If you play without the ability to save culture up, the scientific revolution will most likely come a time thatch its effect will only save you 20 turns rather than 40.

    Nukes... they aren't shy about using them.... constantly.

    Around 1600s one of the AI will start dropping nukes on me. Basically, if I'm relying on a hand full of super soldiers to win its GG. My late game plan needs to incorporate a war machine that spams units. Its still easy to hold off any number of AI units with enough Artillery and with the buffs to city strength even with a swarm a city can still hold you for longer than you'd expect, but they'll nuke your defensive like and well...

    Diplo victory!

    Yeah, a diplo victory isn't uncommon and these guys have so much money that you can't win the diplo vote. Its not uncommon to see the AI with a bank roll of 20000K.


    Its tough now, really tough, which is good because the game prior was so mechanical. The changes make more sense now. I'm not sure if they is a way to stay ahead or at least even in tech with the AI anymore. I'm think we'll just have to live being behind in tech and rely on the quality of the AI combat and artillery to pull through, but... the changes to happiness makes it difficult to keep a lot cities that you capture and if you raze a city well that even more unhappiness for a short period of time.
     
  3. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    Uh oh. I wasn't aware of this extremely unpleasant development. Is there any meaningful diplomatic fallout?
     
  4. skallben

    skallben Diplomat

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    Do they use only the Atomic Bombs or they use missiles aswell?
    When they use A-bombs, do they clear your air-defenses with fighters or could Flaks/Fighters make a difference?
     
  5. MykC

    MykC Warlord

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    Not, sure, I have quick combat on so when I pass the turn all I see if the aftermath. I didn't know there was tech that could stop the nukes, but if I need planes I never have them up before they have nukes. I don't have mech inf by the time they have nukes.
     
  6. skallben

    skallben Diplomat

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    Well, anyone correct me if I am wrong but I believe Flaks/Fighters would prevent A-bombs unless Fighters have cleared your air defenses.
     
  7. Manlius

    Manlius Chieftain

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    (Hi, to the forum!)

    Can't agree here. Though the AI will save up enormous amounts of cash I'm pretty sure it will never bribe more than one CS per turn:

    In an immortal game started pre- but finished post-patch I captured my continent to find myself outteched and dominated by Arabia in all fields on the other continent when we made contact. Yet the majority of CS's was on my continent. Harun had 45k in his treasury and when he built the UN he started bribing several of my Allies but only one per turn. If I remember correctly he would stop after a cycle of bribing for a turn and start over again. (Fortunately my economy was strong enough to be pushed to 500 gpt. I bribed them right back and increased my allies to 11 on the break securing the diplo vote.)
     
  8. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    The one-per-turn supposition is interesting. In my game it seemed as if they were fighting over one CS, turn after turn. What was interesting is that the AI with the most gold made no effort to compete against the Diplo-focused civ (Arabia again).

    If it works the way it seemed to in your game, it's surprisingly balanced in terms of fairness.
     
  9. MykC

    MykC Warlord

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    IDK, I'm pretty sure they'll bribe more than one CS per turn. I've only paid attention once to this vs Alexander who did win by Diplo, which on the the turn before the vote I bribed 3 CS to side with me. When it can to the vote I had 2 votes (including mine).

    I could of just lost track of something so who knows, they should be spending 100% of their money to bride CS. OR, everyone should only be able to gift CS once per turn.
     
  10. Manlius

    Manlius Chieftain

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    Civs have their preferred victory. Thus Rome won't bribe.
     

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