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Immortal Progress China Photojournal (of an amateur)

Discussion in 'Playthroughs and Photojournals' started by amateurgamer88, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Hi everyone! I'm amateurgamer88. I'm still learning on immortal and my games are getting better (I think). My last game as Austria, as shown in my photojournal, is becoming interesting with all of my competition. As the title suggests, I am going to play as China. Do note that this is my second time playing this civ on VP so it should be interesting.

    I know I'm not a great player so I appreciate any advice as I want to learn more. I have many areas lacking so feel free to point them out to me. I like to improve more as I actually want to eventually play and win some deity matches. As a result, I'm doing these photojournals so people can see what I'm doing wrong and give me constructive criticism.

    An additional note is that, due to various reasons, I have to play this game windowed so, in later eras, you'll see the various things like gold, resources and etc overlapping. I also have to lower my graphic setting so my game can run smoother. I apologize for that but it's the limitations I work with.

    Spoiler Game Settings :
    Immortal (7) Difficulty
    Marathon Speed
    Standard Size, 8 civs, 20 city states
    Frontier (Pangaea) with Low Sea Levels
    Strategic Balance
    No events, vassalage, ancient ruins, tech brokering and tech trading
    No Carthage and Sweden (had them way too often)

    The Patch used in this game is 10-10. It should be with hotfix unless I messed this up terribly.


    I won't be setting any rules for this game but I will definitely go for Progress. Why not Tradition? I played OCC with China for my first game and you can see two screenshots of the game below.
    Spoiler OCC Attempt :

    The strategy is rather simple. I went Tradition, Artistry, Rationalism and Freedom. I wanted to maximize my Great People Generation so I can get as many Great Works as possible. I managed to get quite ahead with my technology and policies at this point. To put things into comparison, I have 61 techs and and the second most advanced civ has only 50 techs. For policies, I have 6 Tradition/6 Artistry/6 Rationalism/10 Freedom while the second most progressive only has 6 Progress/6 Artistry/6 Imperialism/2 Freedom. I also grabbed a lot of Wonders too. As you can see, I am going for CV and have to wait another 71 turns at the point where I took the screenshot. The wait is miserable for sure on Marathon.
    20181118002019_1.jpg

    20181118192622_1.jpg


    Spoiler Initial Thoughts on the Civilization :
    Mandate of Heaven:
    The bonuses for the early game can be massive as those food and WLTED help grow cities quite quickly. The extra culture gives you a huge boost early on and I find policies to be one of the hardest things to catch up on. I have no problem catching up to the tech leader but policies are nearly impossible unless I severely weaken the policy leader. Since the wording says gaining cities, I assume that settling and capturing cities both give the bonus. It's true that the bonus is less in later eras but, by then, you should have snowballed a fair bit already.

    Paper Maker:
    Compared to Library, the UB gives you culture and gold. I actually quite like this UB as it works very well with the UA where you get more gold from WLTED that provides you food to get more population resulting in even more gold. It feeds itself and becomes quite powerful for sure. I'd be shocked if I ever have gold problems but I am an amateur after all.

    Chu-Ko-Nu:
    A ranged unit with Logistics that keep its promotion upon upgrade? Need I say more?


    Spoiler Starting Location :

    Let's see the starting location.
    20181119125853_1.jpg
    My initial thoughts are staying where I'm at. I have floodplains for food and Gold for production and gold. This seems like an amazing start for a Tradition game but we'll go Progress. After all, my settings in map will make that possible with a lot of land and only 8 civs total.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  2. YukiN

    YukiN Chieftain

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    A very nice start location. I don't see a place for a farm triangle on the river, but you are China and you have truffles.
     
  3. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    It's certainly a nice starting location. I hope this game will be better than my OCC China game because that one was, at some points, just a skip turn for who knows how long. :p
     
  4. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    China is indeed a very powerful civ. Progress works very well with them. The key is rapid settling in early game to get as much land as possible. Youre also rewarded nicely doing so. Later you still have very nice bonus due to great works come later compairs to tradition, and conquest. What victory are you aiming for? You can do almost anything with China so I guess you will have many options :D.
     
  5. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Considering that I goofed something up, I will have to restart the game. As for victory, I guess I'll go for something I don't normally go for. :p
     
  6. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Just a quick update! Since this is the first time I used Really Advanced Setup, I goofed on a couple of settings. I will have to restart and set the proper settings. I will post a new starting location when I get the chance. I hope to get my first update out today.
     
    YukiN likes this.
  7. YukiN

    YukiN Chieftain

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    You can try out the hidden victory condition option. It's a little RNG based but it forces you to play a balanced game and adapt your course at the end of the game. I have found those games quite interesting given how different it feels from the standard game where each civ pursues their own victory condition.
     
  8. Vastator

    Vastator Chieftain

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    I did the same mistake the first time i installed Really Adavanced Setup. I didn't know i had to start the game from the advanced setup menu.
     
  9. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Haha, I did go into advanced setup menu but it set everything to default setting and I missed a few ones. It's fine. I didn't invest that much into this game anyways. :p
     
  10. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Alright, I hope I didn't goof anything this time. Below is the screenshot of the new starting location.

    Spoiler New Starting Location :

    Let's see the starting location.
    20181119125853_1.jpg
    My initial thoughts are staying where I'm at. I have floodplains for food and Gold for production and gold. This seems like an amazing start for a Tradition game but we'll go Progress. After all, my settings in map will make that possible with a lot of land and only 8 civs total.


    Additional changes are low sea level (for more land for all the civs) and 8 civ instead of 10.
     
    vyyt, chicorbeef and Vastator like this.
  11. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    What a great start.
     
  12. YukiN

    YukiN Chieftain

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    I would move my scout up the top gold to see if there is a reason to move up one tile, but in place seems just fine. This is an awesome start.
     
  13. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    The start is pretty good but, sadly, I won't be using it to its full advantage given how much problems barbarians give me.
     
  14. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    One thing I forgot the mention. I also added another setting called Random Victory. Essentially, I don't know what victory condition is required until the Atomic Age so I have to build a well rounded China. I'm curious to try this out because I feel like China is one of those civs that isn't too punishing.

    Chapter 1: Start Exploring

    Spoiler I. The Beginning :

    I settled without moving my Settler. I don't see any reason to move away when this position already seems stellar. I think it's more ideal for Tradition but this should benefit my capital greatly. However, I quickly realized that working floodplains at the very beginning to grow my pop isn't going to happen. I think I had too few civs and making the sea level low means there will be a ton of land on this Pangaea.
    20181119155607_1.jpg


    Spoiler II. Unorthodox Start :

    Normally, I might have one citizen working the floodplains while another work one of those hills with Gold to get me production and gold as well. However, the barbarians were quickly becoming a problem so I had to focus on the two hills with Gold. Essentially, I need the production to finish my Shrine first as my culture is acceptable given China's UA. The gold from the two tiles allow me to buy a Warrior sooner so I can defend with a stronger unit than a Pathfinder.
    20181119160000_1.jpg


    Spoiler III. My Luck is Changing? :

    Normally, I never have a Natural Wonder within reach, let alone ones that are quite beneficial for me. Having the Great Barrier Reef right there means I will likely settle my second city to take advantage of those tiles. The food, science and culture from those tiles are going to be amazing, especially with the culture my cities will get so their borders will grow faster. However, the barbarians are still a problem I have to deal with constantly so I need at least another Warrior.
    20181119160658_1.jpg


    Spoiler IV. Hi Japan :

    I don't have experience playing against Japan. I believe they are geared for war oriented games with their UA revolving around war oriented buildings, Great Generals and Great Admirals. The one game I had them so far saw them getting wrecked by a snowballing France so that wasn't too much fun. Since I met him first, I guess I might get a chance to see how strong Japan is. Actually, maybe I don't want to deal with him when Japan is the strongest.
    20181119160725_1.jpg


    Spoiler V. We Meet Again... :

    Spain is always an interesting civ and I find her to be generally quite strong. Other than that Mongolian game where she got wrecked by the Mayans, I find Spain to be a powerful foe that has no problems getting a religion and generally snowball if given a chance. Despite having a religious focus, Spain is very well geared towards Authority style gameplay and I played enough games to know that one shouldn't underestimate her.
    20181119161035_1.jpg


    Spoiler VI. Another Strong Foe :

    Morocco showed me how powerful he can be in my Mongolian game. I expect him to take quite a lead in tech and policies so I better watch out for him. If he's in his own little corner without any real competition, I feel like Morocco can be a serious problem. In addition, I suspect he will be going for Statecraft so some fierce competition will be taking place with CS. Since I have Random Victory, I might have to make sure I got my diplomatic game going as well.
    20181119161040_1.jpg


    Spoiler VII. Hello Poland! :

    In the last game I can remember that has Poland, he was on his last leg and was eventually conquered by a stronger neighbor. I honestly don't find Poland to be a very powerful civ overall as his UA is alright while his UU and UB come a bit late. If he has a neighbor that has early game bonuses, then he generally gets crushed. Only time will tell how the situation will develop with Poland.
    20181119161346_1.jpg


    Spoiler VIII. Discovered Kyoto :

    Now, I want to emphasize that the barbarians were the price I pay for so much territory to work with. As much as I want to just spam cities like no tomorrow, I do care about my happiness and there's a limit to how quickly I can settle cities. Polynesia might be a slight exception since his cities don't suffer isolation and that helps a lot with happiness. I will try expanding as much as I can but I will also avoid going negative happiness and stopping growth in any of my cities.
    20181119161412_1.jpg


    Spoiler IX. Another Religious Threat? :

    Byzantium is going to be an interesting foe. If she's close to Spain, then the two of them won't be getting along too well religiously. If I recall correctly, Byzantium can spread her religion quite rapidly with her UB and that, combined with Fealty, can make her a big religious threat. For me, I think I do want a religion because it was such a mess with my Austrian game where I didn't find one. How far I can spread my religion will depend on a lot of factors like where Spain and Byzantium are.
    20181119161643_1.jpg


    Spoiler X. Going Progress :

    This isn't exactly my fastest time to unlock Progress since I didn't go Monument first. I don't know if that's the correct choice since a Monument can get my policy faster as I'll have +4 instead of the standard +3 culture per turn. With Spain and Byzantium in the game, I might need to get my Pantheon relatively early. However, we all know that the religion will be a fierce fight and I don't intend of losing out on a chance to get my own.
    20181119161728_1.jpg


    Well, that's it for our update! How aggressive will China expand? :)
     
  15. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    Being negative happiness in the early game is not a big deal, delay settling however is really bad. Unless youre planning to take AI cities, delay settling is not optimal IMO.
    BTW, if it was me, I probably go Authority instead of Progress with this start. I can expand much faster and dealing with barbs much easier with Authority. Just my opinion though :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  16. YukiN

    YukiN Chieftain

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    I think Shrine first is perfectly fine with any start with culture, which China has by default.

    GBR is one of the most powerful wonders with its yields and effectively double scaling from era. Save some money to buy the tiles and you can skip monument on that city for shrine first.

    In fact, I'm wondering if just going shrine -> monument as standard is better than monument -> shrine for China.

    Japan's UA really suffers on Marathon, as GGs and GAds are so much harder to generate.

    You may have been too paranoid about barbarians here. They can't enter your territory for quite a while and will just wander around outside, so growing to 3 first was probably better.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  17. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Well, when I say delay settling, I meant that I won't settle 10 cities at once and just suffer a lot in terms of happiness. I think I'll still go something like 4 or 5 cities and develop them before expanding further.

    As for going Authority, I just did that with Austria. I don't want every single game to be me conquering all my neighbors since Authority doesn't scale that well into the late game. It's nice to change it up a bit. :)

    With China, I can see the argument with Shrine since your policy is delayed a little bit. For standard, I question that since you'd get your policy opener very late. Even for Authority, you aren't benefiting from barbarian kills until you get that opener and delaying it seems detrimental. I can understand if you go Shrine first for your other cities but, as least for me, Monument first for my capital that has no other source of culture is the more ideal choice.

    GBR is actually quite powerful and, with China, I'm going Shrine first for all my cities. The extra culture really helps with prioritizing religion. With Japan, I guess they just have to go to war on Marathon. The AI doesn't always do a good job but, with a human player, they can be quite strong since everything in their kit helps them with war so much. I definitely don't want to deal with Japan when he gets his UU.

    I might appear paranoid but I had Barbarians entering my borders before turn 20. I don't know what governs it on Marathon but I lost quite a bit of science and culture from them terrorizing my capital. I guess I should've emphasized that in my previous update as those slowed me down quite a bit. My exploration also slowed down since my Pathfinder had to defend my capital until I got my Warrior and even one Warrior wasn't quite enough.
     
  18. Rekk

    Rekk Chieftain

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    From what I can tell, the wait period for barbarians entering territory doesn't change (or only by a couple turns) with game speed.

    You'll see barbarians entering your territory before you finish building your second production item. You pretty much need to build warriors first before anything else if you don't want your city to get terrorized by barbarians.
     
  19. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    That's the slight annoying thing regarding the wait period but I can't delay my building too much. They start entering before I even finished my first production item (the shrine) and there's no way I start with a Warrior first ever. Those terrorizing can be frustrating but I think they slow down the AI too. In addition, I'm playing China so I can recover. The only exception might be if I play as the Aztecs and build a Jaguar who will pay off quickly with the Faith and Gold I can get.
     
  20. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    One city delayed is one city lost you know :). To gain as much land as possible sometimes you have to do the very extreme as forward settling to block off AI expansion. Keeping your pathfinder with survivalisim 2 around is enough to fend off barbs in the early game until handaxe. But warrior do little to handaxe too, you will need archers.
     

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