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[BTS] Immortal Shadow Game With Gigi With a very confusing start (Possible Isolation)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by CGQ, Jan 9, 2021.

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  1. CGQ

    CGQ Warlord

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    I got some time again after the last couple weeks so I decided to start another shadow game. I do have intentions to go back and finish the one before this but I just really want to know how to possibly play this start:


    Spoiler Start :


    Randomly rolled a Medium_Small map with 1 extra AI. Got good old Gigi on a coast:


    Settings:


    Any ideas where to start? It seems we're in the northern part of the map, there's 3 sea resources, no fishing, AGRI but no farms, squirrels but no hunting, etc. I mean, with fishing it'd be a great start! :D

    I know a start like this should normally get a re-roll, but I'll take this challenge. We're potentially isolated too even.
     

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  2. earthy

    earthy Warlord

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    to me it looks more likely that you're boxed in than isolated. that's how it always seems to go when I spawn on the edge of the tundra anyways.
     
  3. Major Tom

    Major Tom Immortal

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    Start walking south. Preferably inland. Look out for suspicious tiles (metal, horses).
     
  4. Snowbird

    Snowbird Prince

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    I thought the same until I moved warrior and rechecked mapscript... I don't have enough experience on medium and small (I think it is on the low side for landmass), but I doubt there is a site much better nearby.

    Tech something like fishing>hunting, then you need BW and Sailing. Sailing (lighthouse) makes cap functional and BW helps with production, so BW first, well probably.
     
  5. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    Would it be wrong to do the obvious and still go mining - - > bronze working - - > fishing, and worker first? The worker can build roads, then chop out fishing boats? I might even mine the plains hill fur. Maybe there's copper nearby who knows?
     
  6. Major Tom

    Major Tom Immortal

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    Ok, this mapscript may contain islands for juicy trade routes. But impossible to be iso? Semi isolation more likely. Still, it could become a barb hellhole. Can’t even see spots for second city. Spending 4-5 turns for decent position might pay off.
     
  7. CGQ

    CGQ Warlord

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    Spoiler Played to Turn 50 :

    I know it's a pretty large turn-set but I'll definitely replay turns to change anything.

    My tech path is Fishing>Mining>BW>Sailing>Pottery>Hunting


    I teched fishing:


    Turn 7 fishing arrives. I also met our first AI, Bismarck:


    Turn 13, warriors injured from lions. AI is pretty far from here.


    Turn 15, Mining arrives, 1st worker is done and I meet Suly:


    While teching BW I created a road to the next city site and mined the fur hill to keep worker busy and for production to finish WB's faster.


    Timing was off by a 2 turns with BW so I put 2 turns into a farm before chopping with BW:


    BW reveals copper on both sides, just outside my capital's BFC:


    Sailing is about to arrive. I started Settler at size 3 and chopped it:


    I chop trees under river grass to build cottage later on:


    Eridu Settled in 2240 BC:


    Turn 49:
    Buddhism somehow spread to my 2nd city but none of the AI have it...hmm interesting. I chose not to convert yet. Meanwhile, workers chop lighthouse in capital:


    T50: I build cottage that Eridu will work for capital to get some commerce going, after finishing the worker.
    I 1-Pop whip the lighthouse (Whipped away the Fur-Mine) and will build 2nd settler next working the 3 lighthouse-enhanced crabs.


    Here's what the land looks like so far:



     

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  8. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    I would strongly consider settling 1s to allow for another city 2n of settlers current position. There's already too much there for 1 city to work. Might also be able to SIP and then settle 3N1W later though.

    You could also just try the settler wander on this map heading somewhere to the south, but I don't have much experience with doing that and if you don't manage to find anything better, its pretty disastrous.

    Looks like fine early commerce here though with the furs so the biggest concerns are production and barbs.
     
  9. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    I would SIP, start a worker, work beaver, tech fishing in 6. Then switch to boat, go mining-BW.

    Checking your spoiler, oh that's almost what you did. I think working beaver is a big improvement though. I don't like the road, sailing and lighthouse. I'd expand much faster.
     
  10. Snowbird

    Snowbird Prince

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    I don't think he ever switched to boat which is a big loss/mistake.

    Spoiler :

    I've tried few times. I think I would prefer grow on warrior (incomplete growth but complete warrior). The idea is that worker does not have much to do before BW (especially without hunting), while warrior provides much needed scouting/fogbusting - with some micromanaging completing warrior provides overflow hammers to shave turn from building workboat (needs just 2 hammers of overflow for that).

    Not sure if hunting is any good - probably not?

    Lighthouse - depends on how one values the map - I don't think expansion is uber priority given the map script, AI potential problems due to lots of water and commerce from furs.

    I think 2D is about the best I can get... although no lighthouse makes me sad:(
     

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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
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  11. CGQ

    CGQ Warlord

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    '
    Spoiler Replayed to Turn 27 :

    Went back to the beginning and replayed, taking Sampsa's advice on switching to boat/working ferrets:


    Took Snowbird's advice and grew on warriors, worked the PH to finish it after fishing, overflow went into fishing boat which I worked PH to finish. Not sure if I should've done that but it would've taken like 14-20 turns otherwise :D
    Went Fishing>Mining>BW.
    Turn 19 I build 2nd WB while waiting for BW to arrive. Working PH bad idea here?


    Having two warriors definitely makes for better scouting! I even found silver on the western side! :)


    BW is about to arrive, now I gotta build settler but wait...I don't have a worker to chop with. Should I build worker then settler or just start over?


     

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  12. Nogbadthebad

    Nogbadthebad Chieftain

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    A minor note on fogbusting- your warrior to the SE could move 1W. It won't bust as many tiles but because it blocks the only path to your city, any barbs that do spawn will instead head towards the AI and annoy them.
     
  13. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    Hammers into warrior while teching Fishing. Switch to WB when Fishing is researched. Build worker at size 1 using clams. Worker comes out with 1T to go on BW. Move into forest and chop 2nd WB.

    Somewhere in there i finished the warrior because i wanted him for fogbusting and exploring, but i don't remember exactly where in there i finished it. Probably after the WB and before the worker.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
  14. earthy

    earthy Warlord

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    So I rolled a few "Medium_Small" games just so I could reveal the map and get an idea of the map script, and my god. It's definitely uh, unique.. OP I might suggest doing the same just to see if this script is really something you want to play.
     
  15. CGQ

    CGQ Warlord

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    Without spoiling too much, in what ways are they unique?
     
  16. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Beavers and crabs. There is a joke somewhere :mischief:
     
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  17. CGQ

    CGQ Warlord

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    Spoiler Played to turn 60 :


    Went back to beginning and grew on warrior, then switched to WB after Fishing, finished warrior, built worker while teching BW, then chopped WB.
    After that I built a settler on 2 crabs, chopped it twice then used 2 turns to make a road towards second city:


    After BW I teched pottery>Writing. I built camps for the 2nd city to work for commerce. 2nd city builds 2nd worker with the shared the clam from capital. I finished road to 2nd city and chopped 2nd worker.
    After first settler, I built another WB to get the last crabs. I had 2nd city work river weasels while capital grew 2nd settler on 3 crabs.


    I chop 2nd settler and build cottage for 3rd city to work for capital until I can get its crabs online:


    Writing arrives on Turn 60 and I open borders. I met 3rd AI Justy sometime during this. What to do next? What to tech next?

     

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  18. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    Rolled up a handful of Big-and-Small maps myself because I was curious what everyone was talking about.

    The "big" part of it (the main continent) seems normal enough. Other than that I'm seeing a bunch of smallish narrow squiggly coastline archipelago islands with very uneven distribution of resources and decent terrain, with some players getting great starting locations and others getting god-awful ones. Also, on three of the five maps I rolled every single Fur resource on the map was visible from one single player's starting location; he would get a ton of fur and nobody else would get any (without trade). I don't know if that's also the case with OP's save, but it seems to be something that the Big-and-small script does sometimes.
     
  19. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Re: lighthouse. Even with 3 seafood-resources I think it's a pretty horrid early build for a few reasons. First of all it's only +3:food:. Working 3*crab a granary would be +8:food:. Secondly you are going to want to share the food, which means that it's actually less than +3:food:. Lighthoused coastal tiles are still worse than cottages so not much value there. I think I'd build a lighthouse only post-monarchy or when the :)-cap is at least 2-3 higher than default.

    Even without great early city spots I'd try to get 4 cities up asap, which means you need to have a way to protect them though. Copper to the rescue, probably as a 2nd city. On copper, 1N, 1SE all have merit.
     
  20. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Spoiler :
    Okay, I tried to actually play.

    Went fishing-mining-BW, mined beaver, started settler size 2, founded on copper. Hunting-AH next for the cow. Not great of course for just one resource, but no pressing need for any other techs. Chop everything in sight. Started with a vulture in 2nd city to take care of barbarian annoyance.

    Civ4ScreenShot0275.JPG

    Went pottery-writing-(alpha). No real rush for anything so can probably get decent value from alpha. Suleiman going for his fav civic and teching monarchy I hope. 3rd city to work northern beavers, should have gone 1E to fogbust the whole area after border pop, but the barb archer just spawned and it was less risky to go 1W I thought. Whipped a vulture there to take care of the threat. 2 workers, 4th city going to SW. Getting the granary up in capital for settler whips.

    Civ4ScreenShot0276.JPG

    Future doesn't look particularly challenging to me, just set up the empire and take it from there. Should be winnable in any way you want.
     

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