Immortal University V - Cyrus of Persia

[silverbullet]

Well... finally an immortal university with a leader that has immortals.



I don't quite like this start. Coastal with no seafood at all, calendar resources that we cannot use for a while, although sugar provides extra food anyway. I am considering moving 1N with the settler for more land tiles and a plain hill, but I might change my mind after I move the scout. What do you think?

AH as first tech seems obvious, followed by mining bronze working. If we move 1N, the worker will have enough to do before bronze working (1 pasture, 1 farm on the sugar, 1 mine on plain hill).

 

[Gliese 581]

Tough start, I might settle in place though. Decent amount of forests to chop and two good tiles at least, capital will definitely be moved at some point. This looks like an ok commerce city somewhere down the road. Moving is of course tempting but all the forests makes movement slow and visiblity low.

Someone make me an epic save?

 

[ranion]

i'm inclined to agree, although i don't like leaving the fresh water bonus, but hey, what do i know.

this start could be rough, no seafood, limited usable resources make for a slowish costal start, and a truck load of lumber means that a hidden resource in the fat cross is probably out of the question.

you may want to throw wheel in sooner rather than later iirc persia starts with agri/hunting and immortals are still chariots and thus still require wheel to unlock them for use, and they'll be key in busting some barb skulls or rushing a neighbor.

my thoughts (for my early monarch skilled attempt... lol) are to move the settler 1N and take a look around then settle the city on turn 2(@1N, in place if 1N turns out to be a dud, or somewhere else if it presents itself well) move the scout NW first, then pop that hut on turn 2 or 3 (after settling with fingers crossed for a tech) AH, wheel, mining, BW then we'll see where I am. as for builds i'm thinking either worker/scout or scout/worker although i'm still torn on that.

thats my 2

quick question or two though, i intend to actually try and play this through for better or worse with limited reloading and given my 'limited' skills, and as such i want to try and go slow and actually post a report or three asking for advice etc. what kind of round length should i be looking at, and what level/kind of detail(s) should i be including to get the most learning out of this?

 

[Olodune]

Tricky start, looks fun Early AH will be great, for the cows, and for scouting out horses.

 

[julienheadley]

i guess i do things differently, but i settle on the sugar.

next step: build immortals as soon as possible, chop and crush!

 

[Nares]

what kind of round length should i be looking at, and what level/kind of detail(s) should i be including to get the most learning out of this?

Play until you feel you need advice. Including more detail, and possibly even the save, would help others offer more specific advice.

 

[patagonia]

*prays for horses*

 

[Shurdus]

Thnx man, I'll be on it and suck as usual.

Updates will follow this time.


*Pssst, might some one whisper to me how to make a screeny? I heard you can save them in a certain folder so you do not have to use paint all the time. Whisper it softly pls, I do not want to look noobie.*

*couch, damn couch!*

 

[patagonia]

*Pssst, might some one whisper to me how to make a screeny? I heard you can save them in a certain folder so you do not have to use paint all the time. Whisper it softly pls, I do not want to look noobie.*

If you press PrintScrn in the game, a screen shot will be saved to:

My Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\ScreenShots (default path)

From there, you can upload it to a free site like imageshack or photobucket and link to it in your report.

 

[Dirk1302]

I tend to settle in place, not so attractive here, 1N looks solid, 2N with the idea of possibly further running inland is a bit of a gamble. I'm considering it though, it's a first step
towards blocking the AI securing the site we're now as a good site for a later calender city. At worst i lose one turn if i have to go one south again. One extra resource or a couple of grasslands and i'd feel it's a good move. Difficult decision on this start.

 

[Gliese 581]

I tend to settle in place, not so attractive here, 1N looks solid, 2N with the idea of possibly further running inland is a bit of a gamble. I'm considering it though, it's a first step
towards blocking the AI securing the site we're now as a good site for a later calender city. At worst i lose one turn if i have to go one south again. One extra resource or a couple of grasslands and i'd feel it's a good move. Difficult decision on this start.

I agree, let's see what the scout reveals. I don't believe an eventual map is going to be useful so I'll save the hut, I often find that maps go roughly in a straight line in a random direction most the time away from your known lands. Most of it is sea around that hut so a good chance it gives absolutely no info or just gives some info on lands to the east that we're not interested in for the capital.

There's just forests in the rest of the bfc though, so moving the settler will likely tell us nothing new. I'll probably just settle in place.

 

[Shurdus]

4000 BC- 800 BC

I apologise about the pics being poorly inserted and such, I am still learning to do that.

Spoiler :

Settled in place and started working the sugar. Builing a warrior to scout up north. I did send the scout out east.

AH seemed the most logic as the first tech.


3760 BC:

I spotted stone NE of our capital. Also I suspect there will be no metal near the capital. Notice the forrested region to the east. There is a mountain top that is not forrested. Also the plain is not forrested. There may be metal there, but we cannot be too sure. It may make a good production spot. As we encounter no civs so far, settling up north seems more logical.


3720 BC:
A scout from Kublai Khan appeared, just NE of the pig recourse. His capital might be further up north.

I let Persepolis grow to size 2 and let the warrior finish the turn it hits size 3. From there on a worker will be build.


3600 BC:
I run into the capital of mr. Khan. It is situated right above the stone. I discover one step later where his capital is.
AH finishes and I pick mining next. I was thinking of doing the Oracle CoL slingshot, or maybe chop the pyramids. There are more than enough woods. I would like to hear opinions on how to use a start like this as I find it very hard to decide.


3520 BC:
I stopped working the cows and started working the forrested sugar instead. This way the warrior will be completed once the capital hits si1ze 3. The turn it hits size 3 I the capital starts builing a worker. I took a screeny but lost it.


3440 BC:
Since both food and hammers are used to build workers I decide to build the worker like this, so that we may still profit from the commerce that we would not get working the cows.


3280 BC:
Mining is completed and I picked bronze working for chopping. Got fishing from a hut in the northern desert.



3240 BC:
Hinduism has been founded. I do not know by whom. I realize ither religions must have been founded, but I payed no attention to it. I wonder if that is useful info. Only now I notice that horses appeared where I suspected to find metal in one of the very first turns. It will be a good spot to settle.



3120 BC:
A sudden culture pop at Khan's borders learns me he has a second city. My scout is cut off and has tio go back.



3040 BC:
My worker is done, I doubt between building a workboat to scout and let Persepolis pop to size 4 and then work on a settler or building the settler right away. My limited experience is not helping here. I decide to build a settler right away as it seems I am falling behind. My worker starts to build a pasture.



2920 BC:
The size of the island is beginning to show. It will be important to settle towards mr. Khan in order to grab what land we can. The desert in between is really not in my favor.


2880 BC:
The pasture is done. I work that, saving 3 turns on the settler. Unfortunately there are still 3 turns to wait for bronze working. :S I decide to use that time to farm the riverside sugar. It can be replaced by a plantation later but a farm will be fine for now.
Bronze working is completed and I convert to slavery.


2600 BC:
Judaism has been founded. Mr Khan and myself are the only ones on this island. The scout is killed by a barbarian archer. The warrior returns in order to defend the settler that is almost completed. I chop 2 warriors, one to defend the capital, one to escort the settler that will be build once the capital hits size 4. I really should get sailing. The wheel is almost done.


2480 BC:
I am thinking of settling the marker locations. I think I will build some chariots, sailing is going to help a lot for that. I will not have to build long roads that way.

1.In the east of my cap, there are two locations that seem solid. In one I get rid of the jungle straight away and leave myself with a plain hill. The other one leaves the jungle on a grass hill. When settled on the jungle hill, I will get access to a grass hill in the soutn, whereas the plain hill will give access to a plain hill in the north. I think I will go with the jungle hill because I can then use the river for some farming.
2. I am thinking of settling there because that way I will lose access to the river but can reach the wheat. I painted the 2 over an oasis, which was clearly not the smart thing to do. I can reach the oasis whether I settle near the river or not.
3. 1W of the wheat is another oasis, so I picked spot 3 there. IN is also an option. That way I lose the oasis but grab the sugar.

Any suggestions on any of there spots are very welcome.


2400 BC:
Pasargadae is founded. I decided to settle north of my capital first because I think it is a good move to set my northers border soonish. The horses in the east can wait a little longer - but not too much. I think I still prefer to grab the northern horses though.
I build my way into barracks at the capital. It will switch to a settler once it hits pop 4. I pick writing as my next tech because I can use some libraries. I wonder if I should not pick mysticism instead. Sailing can wait for now as it will give me no trade routes yet. I am now at a total loss if I should go for any wonders. My lack of experience is catching up with me.
My capital hits size 4 and I chop a settler.


1960 BC:
My second settler leaves for spot 3, accompanied by 2 warriors. I am thinking I could really use archery by now. Writing was complted one turn earlier. I am wondering if I should abandon the idea of creating the pyramids. I decide to go for it. The barracks are completed and I chop/build another worker. It finishes and I decide to get another warior because my sissy population is scared of the big bad enemies who will not be at their doors for centuries to come.


1760 BC:
I found Suza. The forrests I chop near Persepolis pretty much all pop back. Not that I am complaining.


1520 BC:
I chopped a library while waiting for Persepolis to pop to size 6. In the same turn masonry is completed. I abandon the riverside sugar in order to run a scientist. I pick archery as my next tech. I do not trust mr. Khan just yet. I did sign an open border agreement with him though. I have no clue if that was a smart thing to do as he has sent a chariot to scout my lands. I have nothing scouting his. This combined tells me I should not have signed the agreement just yet.
I included a screeny of Persepolis.


I counted the forests near Persepolis. It tells me the mids cannot be chopped. Also I realise I have wasted the time on masonry now. Stupid me.

The bright saide is that mr. mustache has not founded any religions, so the cultural pressure may still be managed. I decide to chop another settler. I am worried about my economy. I reckon the scientists from libraries will come in handy to keep my teching somewhat alive.

Archery is completed shortly thereafter, and I pick IW next. I pray I will find metal so I can kick that Mongolian moustache off my island.

My third settler is completed shortly after that. I whip and chop an archer and send him off to spot 1. I continue to build some more archers after that, for defensive purposes. I plan on whipping a library in Pasargadae as soon as it hits pop 4. I run 2 scientists in the cap, lessening the time to research IW to 14 turns. :S


1000 BC:
Echbatana is founded in spot 1. I scouted mr Khan with a warrior that popped out od Suza.


950 BC:
Confusianism has been founded. I whip a library in Pasargadae. I chop the magic forests around the capital for the n-th time. I did not keep count, but I must have chopped some tiles 4 times or so. Pasargadae build an archer. My scout spots a chariot accompanying a settler. It is moving south towards the stone or thereabout.


825 BC:
Suza completes a worker. I begin to build a library. I let the worker build a pasture so I can finally build some chariots.


800 BC:
I now have evidence that mr moustache has access to metal, be it bronze or iron. I am starting to despair now.

I stopped playing here as I am unsure what to do next. Any feedback and critisism is very welcome!

 

[Sleepless]

Just downloaded the save and the question is whether to move or not. Normally I would settle in place but I want to get the plains hill in the capital so I'm going to move the scout 1NW -1NE, Settler 1N then move the scout and decide then whether to go back to the original position or settle or move again. Decsions, decisions, I'm just about to find out so good luck all.

 

[patagonia]

Turnset 1: 4000BC - 725BC (86 turns)

Spoiler :

I decided to settle in place. I'm not a big fan of starts like this (coastal with no seafood and everything else forest), but giving up the fresh water bonus for an extra hill didn't seem worth it. With Persia/Egypt, I like to try and get a chariot-rush started ASAP so I don't want to waste turns moving the settler.

In terms of research, I went Mining > Bronze > Wheel > Fishing > Pottery > Writing > Mysticism > Sailing (part-done). I was lucky enough to pop AH from the hut on turn 2/3 which saved me a few turns of research.

I got the island scouted pretty quickly and it soon turned out that we were on a smallish landmass with only Kublai as a neighbour. A 5/2 split again? He got his second city out very quick (must have gone settler first), but not before my scout had spied horses by his capital. There was absolutely no doubt in my mind that he had to die and die as quickly as possible (especially after the Willem game).

Build order in the capital was Worker > Worker > Warrior > Warrior > Settler (chopped) > Workboat > Worker. I founded Pasargadae on the plains hill between the eastern horses and the clams and then got working on barracks + constant Immortals in both of my cities. By 1160BC, I'd managed to completely tank my economy with unit upkeep and it was time to declare war:



Karakorum fell quickly, getting me some much-needed cash just before my reserves ran out, and I immediately pillaged Kublai's horses so that he could only build archers. Beshbalik was the only tough nut to crack (on a hill with walls to boot), so I picked off Turfan next with my main stack while reinforcements razed Ning-hsia (annoyingly placed in the middle of the map).

Once I'd got a 3:1 ratio on the defenders, I took Beshbalik before razing Old Sarai (Kublai's final city) in 750BC.



With the Mongols destroyed, I revolted to slavery to get some libraries whipped so that I can attempt to recover from the war. However, I think I may have made a mistake in keeping too many of the old Mongol cities. Hopefully I can get some commerce/beakers going before the money runs out and limp to currency/CoL. From there, beelining Optics seems like the best move. I earned two GG eliminating the Mongols; one's settled in Persepolis and the other in Karakorum to give me a couple of higher XP unit pumps.



Persia doesn't look great to me. Only two happy resources and they're both calendar ones, but at least there's plenty of silk to trade around later. Good job Cyrus is charismatic; I'll have got mileage out of both traits and the UU early in this game. I'm normally pretty bad at recovering the economy from early war so any advice on offer would be appreciated. I need to get a boat in the water to check out those western isles too. Settling there for better trade routes/possible link to another Civ could well be useful down the line. On a global scale, there seems to be a distinct lack of wonderhogs (only stonehenge and GW built in 750BC , although someone out there loves religion). Is it worth getting that marble/stone hooked up and trying for some wonders, or should I be focusing on economy techs?

 

[patagonia]

Shurdus, can you upload a save? Hard to give good advice otherwise

 

[Shurdus]

Shurdus, can you upload a save? Hard to give good advice otherwise

Here you go my friend. I thank you in advance for all the advice you have.

 

[Shurdus]

800 BC - 960 AD. I die.

Spoiler :

Right, off we go again, in a mission to save the crashed economy.


675 BC:
I chop a library in Suza after connecting the horses. At this point I get a pleasant break.



Since research is low, creating an academy will do no good when I want to catch up. I can bulb math, which will serve little use. I decide to settle the GS instead. this reduces the research time for IW with 2 turns.

I realise now that I have made another mistake. the mids STILL have not been build. ANd I have little to build in my capital. Had I worked on the mids and failed to get them, I still would have gotten a huge economy boost, enableing me to catch up - hopefully. Had I gotten the mids it would have been a huge boost as well. Now I have little to do except grudgingly accept that some one else will complete it. I guess my capital will continue building it for the gold boost.

I build a road between Suza and Pasargadae. When the worker arrives I let it build a pasture at the sheep.


600 BC:
Ecbatana is chop/whipping a library for the cultural pressure and the scientists. I get very bad news now. Kublai Khan is converting to buddhism. I pick pottery now as my tech because it will give my economy a much needed boost. I guess now that I finally have roads the sailing will not be needed as urgent anyway. I whip a worker in Pasargadae and run a scientist. Of course there is a source of iron nearby, but it is *just* outside my cultural borders. Had I settled my second city near the river I would have reached it.



475 BC:
Pottery is done and I research the ABC next. I return the worker that build a road to Suza and let him farm the wheat.


400 BC:
The farm is done. I run an extra scientist in Pasargadae and one in Ecbatana. The mids are done. I get to cash in.





325 BC:
I send one of the immortals to scout mr Khan. He has quite an army already.



I better make haste in grabbing that iron and build me an army. I plan to attack Old Sarai with a surprise attack. I hope I can defend my own cities long enough if I should do that. I am worried a lot. I see no spearman, but the ammount of axes and swordmen I see are little assurance of a good ending either.



The gold of the mids allows me to run a somewhat decent science rate. I set it back to 100%, losing me 18 gold per turn but allowing me to research ABC nice and quick.

225 BC:
Taoism has been founded and I still have not got the ABC yet. I now realise I suck at this game. I blame both the map for having little economic recourses as well as ill placed metals.

200 BC:
Christianity is founded. I get the ABC and choose economics now. I need calendar as well, because all the sugar will give my economy a boost.

Now that I have the ABC we can check just how badly behind I am. Khan has math and if you look to the litle menu, at the subtly placed arrows, you can see he is researching construction. I guess he really needs those collosseums.


150 BC:
Change of plans. I think attacking Ning-hsia is the better option as Pasargadae is better defendable should Khan's fury rain down upon it. I am beginning to think however, that him getting construction means game over for me. I have no clue how to stop him now, or get ahead of him. I will lose a war, and I must go to war.

I am thinking missing the mids was a disaster, or maybe getting the Oracle for CoL. I need caste system to apply culture pressure with artists. I need that Iron.

I am wondering if there were any signs that I have missed earlier on, signs that might have told me to settle my cities in a different way, to pick different techs, or whatnot.


75 BC:
I check the power graph. Any war will be game over for me. I am tempted to give up. If you guys have any suggestions I'd like to hear them.


50 BC:
We meet Isabella, who has enough on her hands right now.

She is about on par with Khan. Khan also has enough on his hands, confirming what I already knew. I am dead.



I choose death over cowardice. Lets see just how fast I get killed. An alternatve idea I have is to give him ABC, but I doubt he will like me enough after that, and I question the use of that anyway.

75 AD:
Khan asks for ABC. I give it.

580 AD:
Currency is done. I pick CoL next. I spend some time scouting the neibouring island for usable spots and pray for iron. It is too late. Khan DoW on me, and his stack marches towards Pasargadae. I attack it with my immortals, who demonstrate to be very mortal indeed. I have spend lots of turn building research since that was the only way to get a tech rate going. It got me currency which gave me a little more breathing space, but it only bought me a few more turns. I am dead.

In the next turn I keep Pasargadae. I also get a GG and a GS. I bulb math, because I want to get to calendar if that is still at all possible.

620 AD:

I find bronze that has not been claimed, It is on the far end of the islands in the west. I am afraid it comes WAY too late to save me.



I spend the next couple of turn fighting for my life.

740 AD:
Hmmm, my archer is completed in Persepolis... what to build next? these hammers REALLY count! I choose a lighthouse, because it is clearly the right thing to do. I even get to finish it in 820 AD.

Hatshepsut want me to cancel my deals with the Spanish... Next turn, sweety.



My archers hold back the enemy, fighting like lions. I lose at 960 AD.

 

[Sleepless]

4000BC - 800BC

Spoiler :

I decided to settle 1 north. I miss the health bonus from freshwater but gained an extra plains hill and FP plus coastal can build harbours. Techs went AH, Mining, Wheel, Fish, Sailing, BW, Writing currently learning Mysticism very slowly. I scouted the island pretty quickly as its not very big popping a little bit of gold from 2 huts (sorely needed later). Decided the best idea was to attack Kublai . I don't think anyone else will take this route . I built a city for the Eastern horses then builds went barracks, immortal, immortal, immortal etc you get the idea.

Then it was a case of attack, attack and a quick shot of Kublai's last city just about to become Persian.



Probably a mistake but I kept all his cities and now comes the hard bit of getting my economy back in order. Currently showing a loss at 0 science is never good at least I have some money in the bank. I've whipped a few libraries and will run some scientists in all cities. Now off to search the unknown. Isabella sent a wb my way so I know were not alone.

My new lands.

 

[Sleepless]

@ Shurdus

Spoiler :

I've just looked at your 800BC save. Just a quick couple of thoughts. Losing gold at 0% science is a sure sign of over expansion (or like me war costs). You have open borders with Kublai but no internal/external trade income at all. For me sailing/pottery are essential techs in your situation. With sailing you'd have foreign trade routes with Kublai which would put you back in the black. Pottery for cottages. Shame we don't have any high commerce tiles i.e Gold/Silver. At the moment IW is a waste. There is no chance of attacking Kublai now. You can tell he has iron from the plains mine. I assume he has Keshiks as well. (At least I know there is some metal on the island )

Always an idea to explore more. You have access to the West so have a good look what is over there. Even better trade routes with continental trade.

From your second post I gather you lost. For me this is a hard start. No precious metal tiles. Not a lot of room to expand. Finally Kublai for a neighbour is not good, any creative civ at this level are a pain in the @@@ to deal with.

I'd try again but a very early immortal attack on Kublai is advisable.

 

[Sleepless]

@ Patagonia

Spoiler :

Looks like our games are virtual mirror images. Be interested to see how we do at getting our economy back on track.