Immortal University XI - Washington

[silverbullet]

Welcome to the 11th session of the immortal university.
The start:



Special rules for Dirk: don't build the great lighthouse


Please remember : post your reports in spoiler tags with the year outside the spoiler.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Immortal kicks me up and down, but what can I do here? This is my favorite leader :/.

APG III first, then this. I'm going to post saves even if it just shows me dying to barbs or something this time!!!!!!!!!!

 

[patagonia]

Signing up for a proper stab at this one. It's exam time and I need the distraction.

 

[PaulusIII]

Might be going for my first run at immortal as well. Not quite done with my current game, but I'm surely going for my first defeat at immortal.

 

[silverbullet]

Paulus, TheMeInTeam: don't be so pessimistic. My suggestion is that you play slowly (especially the early game) and stop whenever you are not sure what the best choice is. Ask for feedback, this forum is very helpful.
At least that's how I learned to win this level sometimes (still haven't mastered it and struggle on tough starts).

 

[PaulusIII]

Paulus, TheMeInTeam: don't be so pessimistic. My suggestion is that you play slowly (especially the early game) and stop whenever you are not sure what the best choice is. Ask for feedback, this forum is very helpful.
At least that's how I learned to win this level sometimes (still haven't mastered it and struggle on tough starts).

That's why I'm doing my first try at immortal right here. Learn from the best, no?

 

[Jerrymander]

Immortal kicks me up and down, but what can I do here? This is my favorite leader :/.

He was better in Vanilla.

 

[r_rolo1]

Cha/exp is nothing to sneeze off

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I like him better now actually...both traits are super easy to take advantage of and generally come into play in all situations...granaries, happy, and health ALWAYS help. The promos and cheap workers are solid also.

 

[JBossch]

Leaving to start a new job soon and the hours are really gonna cut into my Civ4 time. I will at least be lurking close at hand and maybe I will take a stab at an opening before I leave...

 

[patagonia]

Part one: 4000BC - 900BC

Spoiler :

Looking at the starting screenie and silverbullet's special Dirk rule, I decided to take a punt for GLH here. I settled in place and went worker first, using one of the forested plains hills to boost the EXP bonus to worker production. He'd be idle for a time, but I wanted to be working irrigated corn ASAP to maximize growth in the capital.

Initial tech order was mining/bronze/wheel/AH/mysticism/hunting (why???)/sailing/masonry/writing. With the capital in a very safe position barb-wise, I decided archery could wait, although I did make a mess by researching hunting and then deciding I didn't need archery after all.

I met our first neighbour reasonably early:



Never too sure what to make of Winnie - is he easy to befriend, or should I be watching my back?

My warrior played hide-and-seek with a lion for a few turns sending him further south than I'd planned, but that had the added bonus of showing me where England was, so it wasn't a wasted trip. Indeed, it showed that with a couple of early cities, I could block off a reasonably-sized chunk of land to settle later, so that's exactly what I set about doing. After a bit of a ponder over city sites, I decided to settle New York 1S of the cows to pick up horses with a border pop, and settled Boston for pigs and gold. My main thinking was to have both cities coastal to maximize the benefit from the GLH, while sealing off land for future settling.

This tanked my research slightly, but Winnie got alphabet very early (1440BC) so I was able to trade AH for pottery with him and grab sailing, then masonry to chop the GLH in the capital:



I'll have writing in 1 turn for a library and a couple of scientists there, while my happy cap is rocketing thanks to CHA, monuments, gold and gems which I'm trading with Winnie for, which gives me a bit of freedom over what to research next. The English tech rate is booming though - they're researching construction already!

Here's an overview of America to date:



Unfortunately the island to the W is mostly junk (good for an offshore fishing village, but not much else), while I've got a chariot heading N to uncover what's likely to be largely tundra. War with England seems inevitable down the line, I just need to find a metal (and a way of catching up) to make a go of it. There's enough land here to hold off and shoot for a Renaissance war, but England's a tough nut to crack in that era if they keep up in tech. I've also met China (Qin I think), Huayna and Shaka so there's something to be said for using Churchill as a buffer while I get America firmly established. No idea where their lands are yet, although I'd guess we're on a snaky continent.

 

[schwartz]

Going to have a stab at this one. I didn't even bother with any reports past the first in the Alex game because Charlie hit me hard early surprisingly.
Here's hoping for better luck this time

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Going to have a stab at this one. I didn't even bother with any reports past the first in the Alex game because Charlie hit me hard early surprisingly.
Here's hoping for better luck this time

I got crippled by barbs in that game . Enough that the game was probably lost...I'm not used to 5 barb units entering borders within a short period of time with 2 being axes 3 archers - I actually lost my capitol to them . Not the kind of thing a fledgling immortal player can deal with at that difficulty (and good immortal players...probably wouldn't have lost it ). Nevertheless, I never start ANY game expecting to lose, and this won't be different...

 

[mystyfly]

Brief report till 600BC (yes, I am going to play one of these games again... hopefully finishing one for a change...)

Spoiler :

Went a bit wonder crazy. Probabely because the only american leader I occasionally use is FDR... anyway, started with mining > BW > myst. Built a settler before I chopped the henge. First city was near gold, with stone in BFC (anyone notice anything??). After myst, tech is sailing (to connect cities OFC) > masonry (stone wants to be hooked up...) > AH > wheel > pottery > writing. After the cap finished the henge, started a lighthose, followed by the GLH. In-between I whipped another settler, founding on horse/cows spot. So far I had relied on fogbusting warriors. Really not much to be feared from barbs.
When GLH was done, I started on the mids, as well as teching aesth after writing. Both completed in 600BC. I also squeezed in another settler, founding on the calms/wheat/cows spot north.
Found all AIs. Toku + Just in WHEOOH, Just is lone buddhist, toku only heathen, all others are hindu (which was founded on turn 42!!). I was last to meet just but somehow got his worst enemy. He is surely going after me. Now at cautious again tough, no more worst enemy. Toku is most likely going after churchill, neighbor and worst enemy as well. Good he didn't get hindu yet. Now I only have to wait for a lucky spread of buddhism to the japanese lands

Plan for near future: Build GL, Settle some more cities, need 2-3 more workers and something other than warriors for defence (no chariots built yet ). Expect to trade for math, IW, ABC. Iron will likely be somewhere near the cap, there is no strategic resource, as well as a forest-free tile 2N of wash.
Mid-term plan: With these high food cities, I'll beeline rifling, teching banking while waiting for GPs to bulb towards lib. Massdrafting, capturing churchills 2gems + corn cap, more warring, victory. Only QSH is teching decently, the others are quite slow. QSH is founder of hindu btw.

I had one GP pop so far, GM, settled in cap.

 

[vicawoo]

I got crippled by barbs in that game . Enough that the game was probably lost...I'm not used to 5 barb units entering borders within a short period of time with 2 being axes 3 archers - I actually lost my capitol to them . Not the kind of thing a fledgling immortal player can deal with at that difficulty (and good immortal players...probably wouldn't have lost it ). Nevertheless, I never start ANY game expecting to lose, and this won't be different...

Expect barb archers before your first settler. Axemen should take longer, maybe a little before your 2nd city has hooked up a resource.

Playing at high levels has made me deeply suspicious of fog.

 

[JBossch]

4000BC - 950BC:

Spoiler :

Couldn't resist giving this one a shot.

Tech order was: Mining -> BW -> wheel -> Masonry (too early, I switched to AH midway through) -> sailing -> finished masonry -> writing (not finished)

Opening builds were: Worker -> WB -> WB -> warrior -> worker

4000BC: Settling in place seems obvious. I work the hammers to get a bonus for the worker.

3720BC: Meet churchill. Hes protective meaning a rush is less attractive.

3360BC: My warrior is eaten by lions despite a defensive advantage.

3280BC: My worker, who otherwise would have been idle, makes himself useful popping the north hut for 34 gold and scouting the area around my capital.

2760BC: Meet HC.

2720BC: Revolt to slavery, whip 2nd worker.

2600BC: I get the stupid "faux pas" negative diplo event with HC.

2320BC: Meet Justin.

1600BC: The barbs have put a city in a nice spot.


1520BC: Here is shot of my settlers in place to found my first 2 cities (they've been there for a number of turns). If I found them now it will crash my econ before I have sailing and masonry for the GLH (yes, I am going for it as I'm sure most will) but I don't want Churchill to take the spots.


1400BC: I have the techs for the GLH (it will be a bit of a haul to writing) and so I found New York and Boston.


1320BC: A WB scout meets Shaka (btw, I think early WB scouts are really important with a GLH strategy to find the trade routes ASAP).

1280BC: I can see Church's capital and hes got 2x gems in the BFC. I remember too well what happened with Gilgamesh (iirc) in the Charlemagne IU.

1160BC: Meet Qin shi Huan.

950BC: GLH is in.


From here I will fill in a city to get the stone/floodplains/gold spot and eventually build some units to take the barb city. I will probably found another city to get both the fish but if someone can convince me it is worth it to build a crap fishing village on the little western island with GLH I will consider it.
Mids are tempting as the AIs havent been wonderspamming but it will be a bit before the stone is connected and so it is probably too late.
I don't yet know what I will use against Churchill but the sooner I take him out the better given those 2 gems.

Any comments or advice are welcome.

 

[PaulusIII]

Played it to about 1000 BC, decided to read some of your paths in this game... then despaired as my game has turned out quite different in some respects and to be honest, I don't think this is going well.

Spoiler :

Tech path: Mining-BW-Mysticism-Hunting-Archery-Wheel-Pottery-Sailing-Masonry-AH-Writing

4000 BC: Settle in place as the starting spot looks decent, with at least 4 food sources. Will probably move the capital later on while I turn the capital in a GP farm. First build is a worker, working the 3H tile as to benefit from Expansive. Also, while settling I see ice 4E 2N of me. Not good.

3720 BC: Churchill shows up. Blegh, I don't like that. While he's relatively easy to get along with he's a PITA to war against - as might be expected from him. Pop hut for small cash, 32 gold.

3360 BC: Scouting warrior runs into bear. Sick and tired of having my lone scout eaten at whatever animal I run into first.

2680 BC: Faux pas with Churchill. Jniii.

1480 BC: GLH plan is shot to hell as Qin builds it.

I have started on the Pyramids to at least try to get a decent economy, with having missed out on the GLH. Since many of my cities have a lot of food a hybrid SE sounds attractive.

Patagonia, JBossch, mystyfly:

Spoiler :

How in the world did you manage to be able to get the Great Lighthouse in 900 BC? Qin beat me to it before I (and some of you as well) even had the required techs, in frickin' 1480 BC!

 

[patagonia]

@ Paulus

Spoiler :

1480BC is pretty early for GLH on Immortal; if an industrious AI decides to shoot for it ultra-early, there's not a great deal you can do. I knew I was taking a gamble by leaving it as late as I did, but figured making a land-grab south was a higher priority.

Coastal cities are still an advantage with cheap EXP harbours later on.

@ JBossch

Spoiler :

Your game's looking good. I think your western blocking city is much better positioned than mine; I was reluctant to leave grabbing the gold that long, but it'll really pay off for you later with two stronger cities to show for it.

Churchill's capital would definitely be a nice addition

 

[JBossch]

@Paulus

Spoiler :

Not much you can do about an AI that builds GLH in 1480BC. Don't despair though, I don't think it is game-breaking on this map (not sure how much you've seen) and you still have a great shot at the mids which might even be better here.

@Patagonia

Spoiler :

Thanks, I got a chariot to level 3 fighting barbs and built HE in the western blocking city real early. We will see if it pays off in the next installment. I really wish we had marble.

 

[mystyfly]

@paulus

Spoiler :

there's nothing you can do about it. I agree with JBossch, it isn't that important on this map, only one city on a different landmass. Mids are way greater boost, with the amount of food resources, you can run lots of specs.

@JBossch

Spoiler :

Do you think settling that close to churchill is advisable? I could've gotten these spots too but wanted to avoid early close borders -ves with him so I settled gold-stone and cows-horse. I think that will leave me with enought land to get to rifling fast enought to massdraft. I just hope churchill isn't teching his UU or I'm in DEEP trouble. If he does, I'll probabely try maces + cannons, altought way less effective with the land available.