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Immortal University XLII: Kublai Khan

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by TheMeInTeam, Jan 10, 2010.

  1. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,708
    Hello all and welcome to the Immortal University! This series was started a long time ago to move a group of the forum's players to the next level. It is now hosted by professors Ignorant Teacher and myself, TMIT. Are you ready for the U?

    This is the 42nd beatdown on the AI, in case you're keeping track.

    We will uphold the university's traditions...smacking down the hapless AI!

    Our leader this time around:



    The opposite of anti-rush, early game is just about all he has. He does it pretty well though.

    Here's the start:



    Another IU, another random fractal start. For a change it looks like a nice one, too.

    Huts and Events are off. If you don't like it, just plop 4 warriors somewhere in world builder and give yourself 60 gold to simulate huts, and just delete your capitol and put 3 archers there to simulate events.

    Copy and Paste of the doctrine:

    To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE, go ahead, but I'm not peeling off the AI bonuses. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve. Just remember, there are immortal bonuses and that's not going to change unless you WB edit it.

    If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

    I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

    The save!

    View attachment IU XLII Kublai.zip

    The initial autosave for those who want to duck having to add barbs or possibly use proper colors. It's IMM/Norm no huts/events.

    View attachment AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave
     
  2. Groogaroo

    Groogaroo King

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    970
    Location:
    London
    Another one already :crazyeye: Well I said I was going to try Immortal next time round... didn't realise it would be so soon though!

    So I'm in, Immortal/Epic, can't start this until tommorrow.
     
  3. TheBoboni

    TheBoboni Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    12
    I'm still on Monarch level, but... Well, I'll give it a go and we'll see. I usually lose momentum around 1000AD (don't know what to do after LIB), so with a good leader for starts and some tips from you guys I might be able to get a win.
     
  4. ThoMeuhGal

    ThoMeuhGal Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    44
    Yay good land for a change! I got my first immortal win with Kublai a couple of weeks ago so let's go for it!
     
  5. Supp

    Supp Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    103
    Is that a coast or a lake next to the rice?
     
  6. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

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    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    By the curving of the map on the tiles E/W of the Rice, I'd say it's coast, but it could be either.

    Hopefully we can see something other than Keshik rushes? :S
     
  7. ThoMeuhGal

    ThoMeuhGal Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    44
    Spoiler :
    It's a good map to REX peacefully so for me keshiks wont see too much action...
     
  8. Phil725

    Phil725 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Messages:
    141
    Last I checked his name was Kublai Khan, not Kublai Gandhi. Keshiks it is ;)

    Immortal - Epic - 10AD

    Spoiler :
    Pretty uneventful start. I settled 1NW, hoping to pick up some extra hills, getting pigs instead. My scout lived long enough to scout the entire continent, meeting our two wonder spamming, peaceful techers (read: easy targets,) neighbors. I settled one city to the south, picking up corn, pigs and some hills. Tech path was agr, AH (horses in BFC? Game over,) mining, HBR, archery. Both cities cranked out chariots until HBR was in, then keshiks constantly until the continent was all mine.

    I was a little late getting started with Will, but doesn't make much of a difference.



    His first two cities went down easily, 3 archers between them, not exactly long odds.

    I was expecting Amsterdam to be nasty to take, 60% defense on a hill. Unfortunately for him he left it guarded by a single archer and a chariot. My straggling party of one keshik and 3 chariots picked it off while my main army was still healing.



    Some very nice wonders, GLH alone will be a huge help in righting the economy.

    Just like that, Will is down to one city. I sent a scout team down to find his last city, and had to laugh at the result.



    This is why you can't let these morons live. His civilization is in ruins, and he has a missionary running off to Egypt. Suffice it to say, my scout team was more then enough to end Will.

    The thing about keshik war, is that unlike axe/chariot rushes, your army size snowballs, it basically makes it impractical to stop warring. With no losses in the Will war, I'm left with over a dozen veteran keshiks with more on the way. Luckily there is another victim around.



    I scouted out Ramesses' lands. He has metal, but that's hardly a deterrent. It's basically 50% survival for a 10exp keshik going against a spear. That isn't slowing me down.

    I blew through Giza (and maybe another city, I forget,) on my way to Thebes. Just like Amsterdam, 60% defense, on a hill, with almost nothing guarding it, 2 archers and 2 war chariots or something like that.



    Unfortunately, Thebes was disappointing. When you capture Ramesses' Thebes, you expect it to be packed with wonders, although the shrine does help. I popped a GPro in here somewhere and I shrined Judaism in one of Will's cities as well, that made up most of my economy.

    From there Ramesses is broken. I found his grassland mine near Thebes and pillaged it, leaving him with only war chariots and archers. I cleaned up the remainder of his cities, razing most, finally leading to his last.



    So now I have a giant continent to myself. The problem that you can see in that picture is that I'm losing tons of gold at 100% gold, and I'm researching BW near 1AD. So the economy needs some work.

    The situation is pretty good though. As of 1AD, I'm a few turns away from alphabet, and with building research, I'll have currency in no time. From there I'll be fine.

    Here's the land at 1AD.





    A lot of jungle to chop. Tons of good land though. Although the lack of accessible happy resources is pretty brutal. Really, 3 civilizations and all I have is jungle gems, silk and wine?

    And stats:



    Keshiks are just too broken really. This game had 600AD domination written all over it. The only thing that can stop keshiks is the ocean.

    The game is pretty much over from here, looks to be a pretty straightforward ~1900 space race win. Never a boring game with Mongolia though.
     
  9. FoRcEaBlE

    FoRcEaBlE Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    33
    Ugh, how do you change the game speed? Ive been playing on marathon for so long now its the only speed I can play... :p
     
  10. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Unzip the .zip file using WinRAR and extract it into your Beyond the Sword -> Saves -> WorldBuilder folder. Then open using Custom Scenarios. The problem with this is that you can see the AIs, but you can adjust the difficulty/speed.
     
  11. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Immortal/Epic - 320BC

    Spoiler :

    Settled NW to get more hills, found pigs. went Worker first while teching Agriculture.
    After Agriculture was Animal Husbandry, after the Worker was a Barracks - why not a Keshik rush?
    Pretty straight forward from there. Built Chariots then Keshiks (with a couple Settlers/Workers) while teching Mining -> Pottery -> Horseback Riding -> Archery -> Bronze Working -> Fishing.

    Army and Empire after Conquering Willem:



    Empire:



    Went Writing -> Iron Working -> Alpha from there on.
    I also switched a couple times between Civics so that I could shave a couple turns off before my units go on strike.

    Force attacking Egypt:



    Note that I'm working some really stupid tiles so that I can slow the strike process down.

    Empire after Egypt is Conquered:



    Thebes has the ToA and the Stonehenge, and both the Confu and Christian holy cities have their shrines. Now, I need to whip some Libraries, Plant some Cottages, and tech my way up to ruckussin' the other continent. I do need to get both IW and Alpha soon though.
     
  12. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
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    Mouse over it and check if it's fresh water.

    I had a request to put this up sooner, and there's no real reason to delay it then :p. It's not like they go away, every game in the series is still considered open, even the ones hosted by silverbullet before I could win at immortal.
     
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
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    Autosave

    1 AD

    Spoiler :


    Settled in place. Got some expansion going. I went aesthetics before alpha. I was greatly penalized for this.





    They avoided alpha, and have a lot of land. Willem has GLH and will clear jungle soon. Interestingly he has NO IRON but i've learned not to put stock in that because the AI likes making ass trades.



    1905 Garbage Victory

    Spoiler :


    Started whipping keshiks vs no metal units. Nope, in 5 turns willem goes from no monarchy to feudalism. Crap. He starts taking stupidly off. I go christian to be war-safe until we meet the new guys.

    I then tech peacefully backwards the entire game. I narrowly lose internet, and ram/willem both go culture. Ram does it by avoiding rifling though, and pays.



    Willem is then so close that I have to spy lock him. Fortunately, the idiot built UN, and I had favor with the other side of the world.



    There was no way I'd beat him before he went legendary. Gunning Ram for UN pop was all the marbles and it worked.

    Despite being backwards, I still had tanks to ram's rifles ---> maybe the AI shouldn't go for THAT culture flavor. Willem was both closer to it than him AND more advanced than me.

     
  14. Gocho

    Gocho Warlord

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Almost 1ad/autosave

    Need some advice

    Spoiler :
    Nobody teching alpha for some unknown reason, will has the confu holy city that we are all in and is weak but my economy is in shambles from aggressive rexing. Would you attack or let the cottages build? I have no cats yet so it would be a bloody war but should be easily winnable.

     
  15. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

    Joined:
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    6,201
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Start to Finish (Ahem, 860 A.D.)
    Standard Save


    Spoiler :

    Boy I didn’t’ even bother with building one single settler, just my UU and my starting capital alone was enough to decimate my whole continent. This game was very generous, giving us horses right in BFC with such a killer UU. Can anything be more wrong!?

    I noticed Egypt had marble, so I decided to DoW on Willem first, letting Egypt build me some wonders. I continued to worker-farm off his stupidness, and ran an early pillage farm. Unfortunately I stole too many workers that I couldn’t pillage anything, and the AI gave up on building any more workers altogether. So then I decided to go for the kill. I took the lousy capital and sister city after he got alphabet, so I could get a ton of techs off him.

    Then I DoW on Egypt, and take/razz cities here and there, while getting tech from that idiot too. Then I re-DoW on Willem again, taking another city and extorting another tech.. then I re-Dow on Egypt again for more extorts. LOL

    Then I finally re-dow on Willem one last time to take last city and gain more happiness for my people.

    And THEN I re-dow on Egypt one last time to add HIS capital to my empire. I had already taken his Christian shrine city BTW earlier.

    Well… what an idiot those two were. Funniest :):):):) with Egypt, he finally got longbows online, and the IDIOT did not understand that my UU can move through hills in his territory, so he moves his longbows out of his capital and puts them in useless cities, while my UU is ready to take his capital.

    The IDIOT left only 2 axes and 2 settlers guarding it.

    Buwahahaha!

    So I take it with ease now owning my third capital site. I have killed off the #1 culture monster of the game, and badly crippled the other. I have a working shrine at this point, so much land I don’t know what to do with. I even have another free settled priest, with an Academy, and Stonehenge, and most importantly the Mids.

    At this point I don’t see any point in continuing on with this game, I’ll leave that to the epic rookies.





     
  16. ThoMeuhGal

    ThoMeuhGal Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Ha i see i ran into the same problems than others...

    Spoiler :
    Namely the Ai not getting alpha, and to much easily available land. In my first attempt i quit when my neighbours run away with techs and i lose lib (Ram got TGL of course). In my second attempt I grab too much land early and kill myself of course... (settling too much far away cities/ jungle early is a BAD idea lesson learned :p)

    Obs' approach is fun and I tought about it, but i fear it requires lots of skill to balance everything right, get the most of it, cripple properly the opponent without losing to much units and switch appropriatly between targets. I might try it, good practice. Of curse it's easier when you have a model :p All heil to the great players who won this one ;)
    Oh and BTW anyone had problems with the other conti? They got lib quite early in one of my tries...
     

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