Immortal University XVI - Hatshepsut

PaulusIII

Unholy Warlord
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Mar 13, 2008
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Time to reboot the IU! We're playing Hatshepsut in this installment.

The start:

Spoiler :


Pyramids, anyone? Ramesses would've loved that stone nearby.

Please don't forget to put reports in spoilers, with the year outside.

Please note that the Normal save is the original one. Epic was made in WB - I've checked barb techs and endtime, but there might still be flaws in the save.
 

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  • Immortal Student Hatty (Normal) BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave
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  • Immortal Student Hatty (Epic) BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Seems like I messed up already. For some reason the Epic save is 10 KB smaller.
 
Well the epic save don't have barb info so it makes sense(assuming the base save was normal), meaning addition to being inheritly easier due to slower speed(we even have war chariots) barbs also don't start with archery... Of course you could have added that in afterwards, if you really wanted.. I don't know how you converted the save so hard to say why it is different...
 
Well the epic save don't have barb info so it makes sense(assuming the base save was normal), meaning addition to being inheritly easier due to slower speed(we even have war chariots) barbs also don't start with archery... Of course you could have added that in afterwards, if you really wanted.. I don't know how you converted the save so hard to say why it is different...

I did actually give the barbs archery. That should not be the problem.
 
Signing in. Not sure if I'm taking normal or epic yet. I'm still playing LHC (~ 1600 AD there). I'm a big Eagles fan so I'm going to watch that now.

1S looks promising for extra production and a levee later. Normally I don't care about levees at all but hell, if the capitol is actually slightly better for something early on by moving onto a riverside tile, might as well.
 
I went with the normal speed save. This spoiler has info up to turn 62/1520 BC.

Spoiler :


I settled one south of the start to get stone in my BFC. Imagine my surprise when I saw deer south as well! No, I didn't check the map, so you'll have to trust me on this. If I had been a little more focused in the beginning, I probably would have settled in place if I remembered that I was Creative and the stone would belong to me soon enough anyway. Oh well.

I popped 3 huts, 1 for a map, 1 for a scout, and 1 for XP for the scout. Early tech was something like AH - Mining - Hunting - BW - Masonry - Fishing (current). There is no need for Archery in this game with horses so close by.

So I REXed out to get 2 other cities nearby and then began the Great Wall after noticing it was not completed yet. I put all my workers to the capital to connect the stone, chopped, and whipped to get the Great Wall in 1600 BC. The reason I did this was that there were a lot of extra archers wandering around and I didn't want my cities to be threatened.

I am now heading for the Pyramids in the capital and will begin running my specialist economy. I will need to decide on a GP farm.

Overall, the game looks pretty easy. Alex hates AC due to inherent AI base peacweights, so that's good. Plus, there's a lot of land available to us.





Any thoughts or comments? This looks like a great game for a wonderspam, even more so with the marble up north.

Also, what's with the desert river? I thought those were supposed to be fixed in a patch.

 
Went for Normal as well. To 1K BC:

Spoiler :
The map does indeed feel easy. Partly because the stone gives a realistic chance at the Mids, partly because I haven't run into my opponents' land yet, and partly because War Chariots make short work of any type of barbarian short of spearmen. I know Alex and Augustus are out there, but I've not seen Romans or Greeks yet, and with any luck they'll be at each other's throats soon. Thankfully Augustus and not Julius: Julius would've teamed up with Al on me. :lol:

I founded Thebes 1S. It turned out to be even better because of the forested deer. That's as good as a grassland cow!


Techpath went AH-Hunting-Mining-Writing-Masonry-Pottery-BW-Fishing-part Alpha. Decided to go for early Writing because of Hatty's library bonus and a large amount of food in the vicinity for several cities. Memphis in particular was founded to get two scientists up and running ASAP.


And yes... I went for the 'mids as well. Finished them in 1040 BC, went straight into Rep for the scientist and the happy bonus.


Heliopolis. I don't care about losing the silk tile. That city will be my capital later in the game, it has awesome potential for a bureaucracy capital. I'm going to cottage it for that purpose.
 

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  • Immortal Student Hatty BC-1000.CivBeyondSwordSave
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1000 BC to 1908 AD (and victory!)

Spoiler :
With Alex and Augustus as neighbours, we were sadly lacking in one department... Religion. The original plan was to research CoL, bulb Philo for Taoism. However that turned out to be unneeded as I managed to score Confucianism. Philo was bulbed nonetheless but Taoism was unneeded. Later in the game I got a prophet as well for the shrine.

And Al decided to start up a war in 1 AD. Augustus is the victim.



All is well. Alex and Augustus get in a couple of wars but that was almost expected because of their peaceweight difference. I tech Aesthetics, even get the free GA from Music - because I could get away with that diversion! Meanwhile, I went on a wonderspamming spree. If you get the mids you might as well get the Parthenon and the Great Library as well, Angkor Wat + obelisks, the University of Sankore, and more. Basically I just wonderspammed because everything ran well in this game, did not need military except a small border force in case Alex tries something funny. AC & Alex join the happy Confucian club as well, though Alex later converted to Taoism. Bulbed Edu, got Nationalism for the Taj, then beat everyone to Lib.

However as I've just discovered gunpowder Alex suddenly declares war on me out of nowhere - no WHEOOH, maybe 1-2 turns or something like that. Must be the dagger strategy mentioned somewhere in Dan's thread. I abuse spiritual once again as I change into slavery, whip a castle and several muskets. Alex takes forever to take down Alexandria's defenses...

... and when he finally did take them down he lacked the common sense to not attack a city on a hill across a river.

So peace was declared again before I was ready again to take Alex out.

I discover the other continent. It's much more advanced though at that time still behind me. We have Charle, Bull and Mao in a not-so-happy Buddhist club (Mao declared on Bull once I believe) and Asoka as the lone Hindu, despised by everybody, with bad land and down a city because of Charle.

I plan war against Alex as soon as rifling is discovered. I changed to Nationhood (Spiritual FTW!), drafted an army, bribed Alex into war against AC to get his stack out of the way and several turns later declared on Alex himself. He went down relatively quickly, having lost his SoD and lacking troops able to stand up against rifles & cannons. After that I simply passed by the rebuild period after a war and declared on Augustus straight away. His SoD was done away with easily and thus we could take over Roman lands as well.


Unfortunately, by the time I was grinding Augustus both HRE and China took off in research. I found myself going from a situation where I had Nationalism and Astronomy on everybody and was ahead, to a situation where I was out of trade options and several crucial techs (Physics, Railroad, even AL!) behind. Damned Immortal research bonus! Frankly, Augustus didn't put up much of a fight after I had done away with his SoD outside Pharsalos, but it still took a lot of time to get to the last cities and mop up all the remnants of the Roman army.

After defeating Augustus I was hopelessly behind. Charlemagne already had Radio and Combustion, Mao was far ahead as well and Bull/Asoka were so far behind they did not matter anymore - underlined even more because Mao took out Bull around this time and Charle would later declare on and vassalize Asoka as well. I managed to kick the economy a gear or two higher with two consecutive GA's, State Property and US/Free Speech. Alex and Augustus had left a lot of matured towns behind, and those around Heliopolis/Thebes were by now fully matured as well.

Yet that was still not enough. There was only one option: Internet to the rescue! A straight beeline to Computers was in order here.

And when the Internet came in, I went from this...

to this. And all of a sudden I was tech leader again and a few crucial techs in the space race ahead.


A little scare in 1876 AD: Aachen achieved legendary culture. Gah! Did Charlemagne go cultural while I wasn't paying attention???
Of course not. It turned out he had simply wonderspammed in Aachen.

1896 AD: Egypt launches. Charle did not stand a chance post-Internet. At that point, he still didn't have Fusion or Genetics.


And so, in 1908 AD:




Time played: little over 5 hours. I know that's not going to be a speed record, though. :p

Why I think the map was (too) easy:

-No fast techers with land. Asoka generally techs fast but he got bad luck from the map generator and trouble with Charlemagne, plus he made a poor diplo choice by holding on to Hindu while Charle/Mao/Bull were Buddhists. Augustus can tech fast as well but he was warring with Alex for a large part of the game. That made it easy for me because both of them were stuck with medieval units against rifles and cannons - for the entire length of the war.
-Good land available. Jungle hampered both Alex and Augustus in their initial settling, leaving more good sites for us. If there was no jungle I would not have been able to settle Alexandria and Pi-Ramesses as easily as happened here.
-Conflict. As mentioned before, whenever the AI's are warring tech rate slows down and helps the human. There was no Happy Peaceful Monoreligious continent, or a continent dominated by peaceful AI's.
-Luck. I got lucky that Alex decided to take on the much more powerful Augustus instead of me. Not that I didn't have a backup plan (that would involve fortifying Alexandria just like I did in the game). When Alex did decide to attack I already had Engineering and Gunpowder and could keep him out with ease. Same for having relatively easy-to-handle AI's in the game. I can only imagine how this game would've gone with Mansa Musa instead of Bull.
-The Internet. The AI REALLY does not value this project enough, nor know how to use it or what its effects are. If I was Charle I would've teched to Computers to keep it from falling into Hatty's hands.
-And of course, playing Hatty. If the map is with you and you've got a strong leader nothing should stand in your way.


EDIT: put some saves up as well.
 

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  • Immortal Student Hatty AD-1570.CivBeyondSwordSave
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  • Immortal Student Hatty AD-1908.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Started and finished before I started, huh. That's kind of rare.

I'm driving back to my house tonight. I'll probably get some time in today, then I have some work to do tomorrow, then I'll have more free time. Hatty's a pretty versatile leader with a good civ.

I like the way the start looks too. Enticing. I want to play BEFORE leaving :lol:.
 
I only occasionally win on Immortal, so comments are welcome. Here is my (epic) game to 1000BC

Spoiler :

I wanted to have stone in the BFC, so I settled 1S. When I discovered the deer I chose Hunting and started a worker. I was lucky enough to pop four huts for AH and some gold. To avoid barb problems I built GW after finishing two workers and some warriors, then I quickly built 2 settlers before the pyramids and another settler. So at 1000BC I have 4 cities, 4 workers, and another settler ready to head west. I think I will try to get another settler out soon, and then start building an army for defence, and for trying to get one of the barb cities.



Tech: Hunting-(AH from hut)-Mining-Masonry-BW-Fishing-Pottery-Writing-Alpabeth-Maths (currently)

I got a great spy and have alphabet so I guess I could go for a spy economy, but my neighbors are not great techers, so I don't think it is a good idea. Perhaps I should simply settle my GS in the capital for beakers?
 

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  • Immortal Student Hatty BC-1000.CivBeyondSwordSave
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@ yena:

Spoiler :
As far as I can see you're doing well so far. Judging by the fact you already have 4 good cities and got the Mids well before I did you got off to a good start.

I'm not sure if building the Great Wall with Egypt + horses was optimal, though. War Chariots can handle anything short of spearmen and they are rare. There are of course also espionage benefits to the Wall but I do not think you need it to deal with barbs.
 
I'm around 1840 AD and man, I screwed up :lol:. I've swapped all my tiles from cottages to workshops in an attempt to push domination (first target is rifles while I have infantry/arty). I quit in disgust when someone in front of me techwise declared across continents despite being annoyed with someone on his own continent, but I'll probably load it back up in a bit. It's only infantry vs infantry and the invasion stack isn't that large. Inconvenient but I can probably still win.

You need to have explored and met non-optics AIs for the below not to be a spoiler.

Spoiler :
I seem to fall laughably behind in tech in immortal games where we have this kind of room, but it doesn't seem to matter as eventually I catch up (in this one, I wound up getting lib after 1500 AD because a classical tag team war vs AC really set me back when he capped to alex after I only got 2 cities (and settled a 3rd in the cracks after peace which sucked at the time but is really a good city now).
 
AD250: 8 cities, Parthenon and GL, a bit weak on military, the economy is improving.
turns for GW was
Spoiler :

So far, so good. I first built an army and got both of the barb cities. My economy was close to collapse, so I researched Currency-CoL and whipped Courthouses. I was then lucky enough to get a GE, so I beelined Literature, and built the Parthenon and GL. War broke out between Alex and AC, and I aligned myself with the Romans. If I manage to get a GS and lighbulb Philosophy, and send the missionary to AC, then I should be safe.



@PaulusIII
Spoiler :

I often have problems with barbs, and with mines and stone I thought that GW was worth a couple of turns. OTOH, if I'd built war chariot I could have prevented the barb cities from appearing and perhaps found a better location for the fourth city. Something to consider for next time.


Advice and comments appreciated.
 

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  • Immortal Student Hatty AD-0250.CivBeyondSwordSave
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@ yena

Spoiler :
With marble, how can you resist the Great Library and the Parthenon. ;)

Also, it seems that Alex and Augustus will in every game be at each other's throats. Gotta love that peaceweight difference.
 
Up to 1280

Spoiler :
I settled 1S and got lucky with the deer. My reasoning was that 1s and in place looked about the same, but I could see tundra that would be s of the BFC if I settled 1s so the reasonable tiles might be tough to use whereas the N looked much better and those would likely get in play.
When we have horse and WC and all this land I skip the GW and go straight to 'mids.
I don't play particularly well--it all looked too easy and I get careless--settle 2 cities near Alex and he comes for me around 500BC and I can't defend both.
Retake it but get really bad RNG and he demands 3 techs for peace!
His next go round is for Augustus and I have to bribe him to stop.
Build the usual wonders the resouces would suggest and at this point the game is looking a little boring--I'll whack Alex with the usual draftee/cannon thing if I play it out (which is unlikely).
 

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  • Immortal Student Hatty AD-1280.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Hi! I'm a newbie and I was wondering if someone could explain me that statement.

:confused:

Thanx

Every AI has a hidden peaceweight variable which will to some extent determine diplomatic relations with other AI's, and the variable is dependent on how much the AI in question values peace. The extremes are 0 and 10 - 0 are the heavy warmongers (such as Alex, Genghis, Monty) while Gandhi has a peaceweight of 10.

Spoiler :
Alexander has a peaceweight of 0 - he's clearly a warmonger. Augustus on the other hand has a peaceweight of 8 - he's a peaceful builder. The two of them will likely not get along because the difference in peaceweight which makes them annoyed from the start with each other.


Hope that answers your question. ;)
 
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