Immortal University XXXIV: Roosevelt

[Ignorant Teacher]

Hello all and welcome to the Immortal University! This series was started a long time ago to move a group of the forum's players to the next level. Are you ready for the U?

This is the 34th in the storied series.

We will uphold the university's traditions...smacking down the hapless AI!

Our leader this time around:



Good starting techs, very good, but very late UU and UB.

Here's the start:



Wawaweewa!!! Someone ordered a great starting location? They say FDR likes to build some very big lighthouses, don't they? After all these tough episodes, this one might turn out to be more pleasant. It's a different mapscript this time. It's a snaky continents archipelago.

Huts and Events are off.

Copy and Paste of the doctrine:

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE, go ahead, but I'm not peeling off the AI bonuses. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve. Just remember, there are immortal bonuses and that's not going to change unless you WB edit it.

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

 

[pawelo]

Yay! A new one is up

I am still wrapping the Qin game in the meantime...
Signing in for this try!

 

[usmle]

Monarch player normally, but with that start I can't resist a try.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

Immortal / Normal - 1929 AD

Spoiler :

Well, this map started as an off-line game so I am playing with huts and events on. I completely forgot to take screenshots of the whole game, so I'll show where I am.

I was totally peaceful until recently when I saw Huayna Capac gunning for culture. I took him and Elizabeth (his colony) as vassals. Now I'm preparing to make my move on Suleiman, who's also trying to win culture and has already flipped one of my cities.

Despite the super nice start and land, and the Great Lighthouse, for some reason I was backwards most of the game. It may be due to not opening borders until I had secured most of my land. I was lucky and was able to block a huge chunk of land settling New York that close to Istanbul. I guess I only started to get into business when I got Astronomy and the lighthouse trade routes kicked in.

I completed the Internet. I've been using it as a crutch on Immortal. Sometimes I just can't tech without it - not the case here, but it bugs me. I have to improve my teching so bad. I also saved an engineer and a merchant for centuries to found the Sushi / Mining Inc. combo.

I'll try to win Domination or Conquest. I'll take Diplomation if it gets too boring.

Screenshots:

 

[TheMeInTeam]

IMM/Normal

1 AD

Spoiler :

It's not like GLH is some secret on this map type. BTW settled in place. Worker ---> settler



Damned otto-mans took a barb city up in my grill. We are all jewish. Heavy use of OR for me.

1958 space...

Spoiler :

Yeah...mace/cat



Someone else gets liberalism.



Macecat wins. Ragnar = friendly off religion/civic so no help for sully



Then I just kind of stay in slavery, go bio/rep, whip like crazy w/ production automation because I don't care, and win space

Unorthodox and crappy. But I win .

 

[Eplekjekk]

1 AD

Spoiler :

My first attempt at Immortal after gaining a handful of Emperor wins.

In the beginning I tried to get some cities up to the south in order to block off Suleiman. Did alright, now I am trying to win the culture war. I also built the Great Lighthouse for an economic boost. Suleiman founded hinduism and spread it to both Ragnar and me. I am trading techs with them and doing reasonably well I feel.

I have 6 cities up by 1 AD, the same year that I win the music race. Planning to use the GA for a civic switch to Bureaucracy when I tech CS. In the near future I plan to settle 3 more cities and tech towards Lib. The general idea is to stomp all over my hindu neighbors with Cuirassiers/Cavalry. After that I will see where I am, maybe go for space. Any input is welcome, maybe I could be doing something differently.

A shot of my 1 AD empire:

 

[Grashopa]

Deity/Normal 3000 BC - found neighbors

Spoiler :

Found Suleiman, probably should not have taken his worker, and just blocked with a settler but I want the worker which will free up some turns allowing me to go for wonders. I also thought it was immortal not deity and finally we have copper nearby to block up that choke point unless he gets chariots at which point I take peace and join hinduism. Because of the double gems and industrious I should be able to get oracle - Metal Casting easily. Forges are half off and give a happy.

Comments on neighbors at this point - I'd appreciate if someone would add to this and comment like this every game since it is very important to understand your AI neighbors and I haven't played enough games yet to know some things.

Spoiler :

Suleiman - Won't declare at pleased, I think he will stop trading early with "we think you are too advanced"
Ragnar - Needs to be pleased to trade at all, and again I think he stops trading early until you get him friendly.

Both have HR as favorite civics which means if they are the same religion you can get them both friendly easier.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

@ Grashopa:

Spoiler :

Yes, diplo planning is very important. Rather than relying on others to comment about the leader you can just download one of the spreadsheets from this forum that show you how everyone acts. I have a lot of the important points memorized but not everything.

I avoided declaring on sully early to take advantage of the GLH trade routes.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

TMIT

Spoiler :

I had a barb city in that very same spot in my game and it was the reason I refused to have early OBs with my neighbors. I don't know which way is best, opening borders right away and risking losing the spot to an AI or waiting to open borders until you've deal with it.

Eplekjekk

Spoiler :

Good luck on the jump. This is an easy map and is good to try new levels on. Two things: is there any particular reason your cities are unhappy? You pay extra maintenance when they have those red faces. 2- I'm not sure, but I think they might sneak a galley with a settler to that jungle/rice area unless you settle it.

Grasshopa and TMIT

Spoiler :

Silly and Rags are pretty much what Grasshopa said and, unless they have different religions, the early game should be a smooth ride. I agree with TMIT that the reference sheets are the most helpful thing when it comes to learning the leaders' behavior, but I can't help but think that the first IUs had a lot more discussion going on and I think that is pretty much the point of the series, right? I know I haven't been the most active forum member, but I'd like to see all the series bringing a lot more help to the ones learning the levels.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

but I can't help but think that the first IUs had a lot more discussion going on and I think that is pretty much the point of the series, right? I know I haven't been the most active forum member, but I'd like to see all the series bringing a lot more help to the ones learning the levels.

The first couple IU games drew in some of the forum's best talent, and as a result deity-level discussion. Dirk, Rusten, Gliese, ABCF, U Sun and so forth all dropped by in the early goings...there were probably more deity players playing than immortal at the time . Just look at IU charlie as an example...that's an all-star group for the most part, and that was back then!

The host can only do so much, whether it is you or me. Whether there is discussion and whether it leads to player improvement is also up to our participants...what you saw at that time was the activities of the elite, so to speak.

I watch though...I look at what everyone does in their spoilers once I've played my game, constantly picking up on approaches/reads.

 

[Grashopa]

Deity/Normal 100 AD

Spoiler :

I'll be curious to see what this looks like around 1500ad. I started this game with a worker steal on suleiman after scouting his land.

I built stonehenge after my first settler which grabbed the copper. Then I got oracle - MC and busted out 4 axes to block and pillage suleiman. Just after the oracle Ragnar founded judaism which spread to me immediately so I switched - this now means I'll be able to trade tech with him ( or will I???). I'm researching IW so I can pillage the iron.



After the axes my copper site built settlers while I decided to grab colossus and pyramids in the capital. I pillaged for a bit, then sat on his only metal (iron) and picked off archers 1 at a time from the wooded hill as he kept sending out a stack and retreating it. This was probably a mistake as it allowed him to continue teching.

Its 100 AD and not only does Ragnar not have alphabet, he apparently gifted ivory to Suleiman who just got construction. Hopefully the WEs don't slow me much. Hes not in slavery so at least he won't be whipping them out. Heres hoping the pyramids gets my tech going after this!

I've got a GE for mining inc!

 

[Grashopa]

I've got the BTS reference, but it doesn't tell you how soon some AIs will stop trading due to you are too advanced. Also not everything is obvious as to say how many demands you'll see from them, how aggressive at war the AI will be etc..

Really I'm just curious why people don't post at 15 or 20 turns in and discuss their strategies. At that point you should know exactly what you are going to do based on your early exploration and contacts. That I think is where you benefit the most from others experience. Everyone can play slow and micro, but its seeing the right strategy early that makes a bigger difference. And I for one lack experience with some of the not so obvious differences between AIs.

In my games I tend to try to do things other people won't just to compare games. For example this game

 

[Fleme]

Played all the way to 1000 AD, so here's my checkpoint 1 (Immortal, Marathon)

Spoiler :

A few turns prior to this spoiler I've vassalized Suleiman and destroyed Ragnar. (Didn't bother killing Suleiman because I'd rather have a vassal living in the icy tundra than be there myself.) Also, I got lib in 985 AD, and have not made contact with distant civs as of yet.

Images of the empire and some key cities, including a double holy city. It has one shrine as of now but I'm working on the second prophet. Nidaros, the former Viking capital will be my future GP farm, although I don't really see the need for one anymore now that I won Liberalism already without bulbs other than Philosophy.

Northern parts. Notice how I moved my settler from the initial location. It occasionally pays off to roam on Marathon and this was definitely one of those times.



Southern states. New York was key to securing my half of the island.



Former Ottoman core:


Former Viking lands.



Some core cities:







And to conclude, a short summary of what's going on and how it all went down:

As stated, I started with a settler roam which uncovered 2 seafood sources. I suppose in the long run it wasn't a big deal since I missed out on the original clams and the bananas because of it but it made for a nice dotmap in the long run and made it so that I had copper in the capital BFC so it worked out. Initial build order went Worker > Work Boat > Settler (@ size 3) while techs went Mining>BW>Sailing>Masonry. Initial settler went south to block off the Ottomans and secured me with 10+ good city spots that were all taken in the BC's thanks to GLH.

I played nice with Suleiman and Rags and Sully founding a religion (dunno if it was Philo, Theo or Col for the first one but Taoism was his religion of choice anyways ((choose religions)) which then spread to me and Rags and we all became the best of friends. Teching and trading ensued while I made the best of GLH and the trade routes it offered. However, at the late medieval ages things went awry and I realized I could no longer tolerate Suleiman and here's why: I had 2 cities within a reasonable range from Istanbul and as it turns out, he decided to get wonderspammy... SoZ, Parthenon, UoS in his capital and Sistine in his second city so it was either him dying or me losing 2 completely good cities to cultural pressure. On top of this, he discovered Banking and switched to Merc so I didn't really get anything good from him anymore.

I had really good production potential for a medieval nation because Rags had built the AP and I, as a good and pious leader of course built temples and monasteries all over america. Add cheap forges and you have decent prod potential regardless of city locations, and as stated before, I now had 10+ developed cities. I was in a small tech ditch at the start of the war and since he started on Gunpowder after Banking I was in a rush to get things done. I didn't have Engineering (nor did he) but I was racing towards it while building up the rest of my army and did manage to get out some 4-6 trebs before declaring. At this point he was 6 turns from Gunpowder and the dreaded Janissaries. Well, Istanbul fell and shortly after that Edirne followed. He did manage to get Gunpowder but it was too little too late. I teched Feudalism during the war and capped him after I had taken every viable city.

Rags doesn't deserve an entry, he just fell over and died.

Anyhow, as of 1000 AD I now have the entire island to myself and have pretty much all the wonders I could ask for at this point to further boost my econ. I'm thinking of taking a detour to Divine Right just so I could complete my religions foursome (Ap, SM, UoS, SC) but I'm still undecided.

The likely course from here is that I'll just tech peacefully all the way up to Navy SEALs and just run over everyone.

Kudos for reading through my ramble.

 

[Eplekjekk]

To 1310 AD

Spoiler :

I bulbed philosophy, then a little later I bulbed Education. Failed Sistine Chapel for 500 gold, speeding up my tech nicely. Won Lib race, chose Nationalism. Built the Taj while getting Oxford. After that I started producing cuirassiers in all my cities. Got a decent army camped next to Sillyman

My forces:


The tech situation, Suleiman is getting Steel in ~11 turns.


My plan now is to crush Suleiman. Would the experienced Imm players wait for cavalries or hit him with cuirassiers? I preferably want to hit him before he gets cannons. After him Ragnar should fall like a domino, although I was considering keeping him as a vassal and have him tech for me. Is that a sound idea or is it better to kill him off?

I have also met Julius who is terribly backwards even after I traded some with him. Do you think I will be able to hit Suleiman and Ragnar + get an armada of galleons and hit him before he gets rifling? Next to him is Sury i think, maybe I can take him with cavs as well.

 

[lsgag]

Until 25 AD emperor normal (its my regular level)

Spoiler :

Research Mining - wheel - BW - AH

Then i noticed the horses close by so i though it would be okey to HA rush since you can tech very fast with the gems.

research hunting - archery - HBR

Meanwhile i settled 2 cities east of the fish to grab the horse and the second south of the gold to catch the phants and the gold.

Build HA and attacked silly, he had just connected iron which was easy to spot. Catched his capital then destroyed the iron source. And caputured the rest of his cities.

I wonder why no one else did go for HA? Or are they to slow? and is it better to just plant block silly and ragnar and then slowly expand?

 

[Fleme]

@lsgag

Spoiler :

While the starting location makes rushing possible and an ok option, there's also the fact that if you rush you won't have any foreign trade routes for your GLH nor any tech partners. Personally I feel like I made the most of Suleiman and Ragnar and disposed of them when they had outlived their usefulness.

Still, rushing is by no means a bad option.

 

[pawelo]

Check #1, Immortal, Epic, 10AD (no 1AD on epic)

Spoiler :

You gotta be loving this game. I can't say how it'll play out, but the fact is till now I love it.

Of course I chopped GLight, of course I am almost getting the GLib, of course I blocked half the continent...
It's too smooth to be true.
Not to spoil anything, I popped gold in Washington and got Suleiman take down defenses in the only barb city around so that I could take it with my spear

Anyway, GLight + Currency is making a nice job - I just got CS (3 turns after Ragnar who beelined - still he is a non factor with his 5 cities), GLib due in 5 turns, Buddha happy feast making a DoW unlikely - it'll be nice game. Either I'll take both AIs down or I'll just cruise ahead for space
Almost forgot - I burned my GMerch on trade mission to Nidaros - 1650 gold in BCs can make quite some research. Didn't know what to do with the guy - maybe I should have burned it on MC for cheap forges ?

Map:

 

[Grashopa]

@lsgag

Spoiler :

I'd have HA rushed or at least teched AH to see if we had horses (I don't have it at 100 AD)

However I scouted Suleiman and realized we are likely on a small landmass (double gems is also a hint). Since taking out our neighbors early means we are basically isolated I decided to grab some wonders first then attack at catapults. This makes up for losing a neighbor to trade with as it helps your tech and slows the tech of overseas AIs.

In your game can you get Ragnar to friendly? If not he'll stop trading early with you are too advanced. Losing the trades with him means a lot of beakers that you likely won't make up in commerce from having a few extra cities.

 

[Fleme]

@Grashopa

Spoiler :

In my game I had both Sully and Rags at friendly at the time of declaration. Rags favors HR so with that, sustained peace, fair trade and shared religion it wasn't hard for me. Heck, Suleiman was pleased through our entire war and went back to friendly as soon as I capped him.

But yea, you really do need Rags friendly if you are to keep trading off him.

 

[Fleme]

To 1550 AD, Domination, 269137 points.

Spoiler :

HC screwed my plan of going Navy SEAL all over the world by assaulting american soil in the late renaissance. To make things worse, it was with just 1, yes one, Knight that took a minor city near my capital. I AP forced peace the next turn and moved my stack from down south to recapture the city.

Well, HC had to pay for his insolence so I teched rifles+steel and went for it. He capped after 1 city captured. I then moved on Alexander and repeated the same drill although I had to take almost his entire island to force capitulation.

You'd think this wouldn't be enough terrain but as it turns out, our starting island is the largest out there and I had it -2 cities all to myself. On top of that, I was first to astronomy by a mile and made sure I settled every single landmass my ships found.

Here's a map spoiler relating to my late colonization:

Spoiler :

It would've been possible early on. The location on the southeast corner of our island with the desert, mountains, gold and pigs opens access to two large islands, both capable of hosting 4 cities which would obviously be huge with GLH. I was beating myself up for not noticing this until I had galleons

Anyhow, it was a walkover. Superior terrain, good trading partners and ultimately most land. Some screens:

Oakland put me over the threshold:



And the end screen:



Not my best score but certainly not the worst.