Immortality

[zazazuzu]

Would it be a 'good' thing? If so, who would it be good for? Would it be best for the strange new immortal beings, or for the Ephemerals? The culture that brought into being the conditions which eventually became optimal for the creation of Immortals was based on Ephemeral ways of looking at reality.
Going forward, would this new Immortal human species progress in any way that seems familiar to us, their fore bearers? Aren't we making ourselves extinct? Does it really matter?

 

[Kyriakos]

I am pretty sure there is one forum regular who is pro-immortality.
I'd settle for playing Alpha Centauri, as the russian faction.

 

[zazazuzu]

As I get older, more and more, I can't imagine any worse punishment than having to exist forever.

I am pretty sure there is one forum regular who is pro-immortality.
I'd settle for playing Alpha Centauri, as the russian faction.

Oh yeah, a 'computer' game! The Ephemerals were very fond of those, if I recall correctly

 

[zazazuzu]

When I was 12 years old, this was pretty awesome. Now, I still feel a connection to it, but it's tenuous at best. How about when I'm 12,000 years old? Of course, I wouldn't give a **** about it. But more importantly, would I give a **** about all of the cultural and biological things that made this nonsense sensible to a 12 year old Ephemeral? Of course not.

 

[El_Machinae]

Your Lexicon is unfamiliar to me. What do you mean by ephemeral? What do you mean by an immortal?

 

[zazazuzu]

Your Lexicon is unfamiliar to me. What do you mean by ephemeral? What do you mean by an immortal?

In the very near future, biological death will no longer loom over humanity. When that day comes, there'll be a line drawn in human history. Maybe even how time is recorded. Before Immortality and After Immortality. Immortality is a fluid concept. Maybe 'immortality' will be thought of as uploading copies of our minds into simulations that go on forever, as long as our suns continue providing energy. Or maybe it'll be more mundane, and our physical bodies will become immortal, carrying the precious mental cargo of our consciousness, forever embodied in our fragile, jelly like brains.

Either way, a demarcation line is looming in our very near future.

Sorry, just realized I didn't answer your question. It's obvious, isn't it? An Ehphemeral is a human before immortality existed. An Immortal is a human after that particular singularity has occurred.

 

[El_Machinae]

Yeah, because the idea of causing an extinction without killing the organism didn't resonate. The OP confused me along that line.

I get the gist now, that people will become amortal. But I was clarifying, I didn't grab that from the OP

 

[zazazuzu]

Yeah, because the idea of causing an extinction without killing the organism didn't resonate. The OP confused me along that line.

I get the gist now, that people will become amortal. But I was clarifying, I didn't grab that from the OP

What I was thinking when I wrote the OP, was, it's very likely that both will coexist for a time. The Immortals, by their very nature (very long tern view) would not be kind to the Ephermerals. The Immortals would likely farm them and see them as a good reserve of compatible biological material, which could at some future date be necessary. Scary, isn't it? But here's what's really scary, guys: I'm not even an Immortal. I'm just an old Ephemeral. If I can think of things like this, what things will they be capable of thinking of?

 

[H4run]

What I was thinking when I wrote the OP, was, it's very likely that both will coexist for a time. The Immortals, by their very nature (very long tern view) would not be kind to the Ephermerals. The Immortals would likely farm them and see them as a good reserve of compatible biological material, which could at some future date be necessary. Scary, isn't it? But here's what's really scary, guys: I'm not even an Immortal. I'm just an old Ephemeral. If I can think of things like this, what things will they be capable of thinking of?

I don't know if this is related. China have the hugest organ transplant donor in the world, and were suspect to used organ from the executed prisoner. It is highly possible they used their hidden concentration camp for organ harvesting from the "executed prisoner".

Well, in Xenogear there is a very interesting scene where the people of Solaris (in your language the immortal) genetically manipulated the lower caste human (Ephermerals) to becomes wels, which basically a human mutant, which later on wels is used for various benefits:

 

[zazazuzu]

I don't know if this is related. China have the hugest organ transplant donor in the world, and were suspect to used organ from the executed prisoner. It is highly possible they used their hidden concentration camp for organ harvesting from the "executed prisoner".

Well, in Xenogear there is a very interesting scene where the people of Solaris (in your language the immortal) genetically manipulated the lower caste human (Ephermerals) to becomes wels, which basically a human mutant, which later on wels is used for various benefits:

I see your video about dubious meat, and I raise you one!

 

[H4run]

I see your video about dubious meat, and I raise you one!

So this is where Xenogear's "The Soylent system" get its reference, this is really interesting

 

[zazazuzu]

So this is where Xenogear's "The Soylent system" get its reference, this is really interesting

Great movie, I recommend watching it when you get a chance. There are many subtle references to it in popular culture that you might have been exposed to in many different genres, and then it will all pop and seem clear.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I think you're conflating biological immortality and immortality. They are clearly not the same. (You make the disctinction in one of your earlier posts and then drop it later on). Lobsters are biologically immortal, but look where it has gotten them. Me, personally I entirely reject the idea of both immortality and biological immortality. I think a life without death to look forward to is the utmost tragedy, and I pray we'll never get that far. Death is one of the few fields that humans have yet to conquer, and it's for the better imho. We had a very lengthy discussion on this subject only weeks ago so I doubt this thread will have great resonance, since the topic had been discussed to death. Maybe someone could bring that thread up.

 

[zazazuzu]

I think you're conflating biological immortality and immortality.They are clearly not the same.

Are you implying that there are different sorts of immortality? 'They' aren't the same? Huh?

Lobsters are biologically immortal, but look where it has gotten them.

They've managed to survive for around 500 million years? Lol.

Me, personally I entirely reject the idea of both immortality and biological immortality

Again, you're seeming to indicate that there are two different types of immortality. Since you're the proponent of this radical new theory, could you flesh it out and explain it more?

I think a life without death to look forward to is the utmost tragedy, and I pray we'll never get that far.

At last we're in agreement. Immortality would be Hell on Earth, as far as I'm concerned.

We had a very lengthy discussion on this subject only weeks ago so I doubt this thread will have great resonance, since the topic had been discussed to death

Lol. The topic has been discussed since primates fell out of the trees, stood upright, looked up and noticed the sky.

 

[Kyriakos]

According to this
https://www.livescience.com/55392-do-lobsters-live-forever.html

Many animals that live in the deep, dark sea are subject to myths, and lobsters are no different. But one particular “belief” — that lobsters would be immortal were it not for fishermen and hungry predators — doesn't exactly hold water, biologists told Live Science.

"Lobsters age just like most other organisms," said Thomas Matthews, a lobster biologist with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

Some lobsters, however, do have extraordinarily long life spans. The American lobster (Homarus americanus) can live to at least 100 years, which is more than five times the life span of the Caribbean spiny lobster (Panulirus argus), which doesn't even make it to 20 years, Matthews said.

lobsters aren't biologically immortal.

Some simpler species (like this clam) apparently can live for at least 500 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctica_islandica

while a few types of turtle live for upwards of 200 years. Probably has to do with slowness being a core trait of their existence, though.

 

[Peuri]

Are you implying that there are different sorts of immortality? 'They' aren't the same? Huh?

I'm not sure how @yung.carl.jung would define it, but the elves in the Lord of the Rings can be used to illustrate various forms of immortality. They were biologically immortal, meaning that they didn't degenerate and eventually die of old age. They weren't physically immortal in the sense that nothing could kill them, because they could die of various physical trauma. Of course they were spiritually immortal, because after physical death their immortal spirits would go to live on in the Halls of Mandos.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Lobsters are immortal but most die to disease or other causes.
I'd imagine it will be the same for humans as we solve the dna decay of aging but other forms of mortality will continue

 

[Narz]

As I get older, more and more, I can't imagine any worse punishment than having to exist forever.

Relax if they can cure aging they can cure grumpy-old-manism.

Life kinda sucks alot of the time but it beats the alternative of NOTHING-EVER-AGAIN-FOREVER.

 

[H4run]

Living forever can be a torture, when I'm thinking about living an immortal life, I'm thinking about being young eternally, living a life at the top of biological performance.

When I was a teenager I wonder why so many bull crap and song that praise and celebrate a life of a teenager, lol, being teenager or not is a choiced people can stay young mentally if they want. But now when I 34 march toward 40s, ugh ,I really know why being a teenager is so special up until 27 where things start to go down. It makes me nostalgia a lot about the old days.

 

[Takhisis]

How would a race of immortals deal with violent death?