IMO not including penalties for Social Policies was a mistake

[eric_]

Hrm...I think it should be more explicit. You get no foreign trade unless you sign a Trade Pact with another civ. That option isn't available in the Diplo dialogs until you get Currency AND are connected to the other civ's capital (via roads, water, or combo).

If two other civs are only connected to one another civ through your lands, you can "negotiate" a trade pact between those two civs, but they cannot with one another. So, in the "discuss" Diplo dialog, one option would be "form a trade pact with" and then when you click it, it would list any civs connected to you but not to them.

Successfully setting up a third party trade pact gives you a strong Diplo boost with each third party, as well as a portion of the proceeds.

 

[Ktulu]

Regarding war weariness etc.

One thing CIV fails to factor is where your army comes from. Armies aren't just "units" they require people. Different countries have different policies for maintaining their military (mandatory military service, voluntary service, reserves etc). This should be reflected in the game via policies/govs/civics or whatever.

As a CIV example, consider a modern western democracy instituting a draft to augment it's professional army which is involved in a war of conquest. This should have significant ramifications on happiness.

 

[Rudster816]

Gaining culture is expensive. The upkeep of multiple monuments\temples\opera houses\broadcast towers\CSs is a lot. If you do what I do some times and only build monuments in cities, than you get like 5-6 social policies and thats about it. Pretty much I get Theocracy, and the middle tree in order and thats all thats really important to me. Somtimes I will save up all my culture until the Renaissance era and do the complete rationalism tree, but than it takes me awhile to get planned economy, and I cant do theocracy.

Anyone else find it humorous you cant have Piety and Rationalism active at the same time?

 

[Sonereal]

Anyone else find it humorous you cant have Piety and Rationalism active at the same time?

Especially since the last tech is Free Religion which not only should be able to work with the idea of Rationalism, it stands in contrast to the Theocracy policy.

 

[eric_]

Hrm...would be cool if opening Free Religion allowed you to use Piety and Rationalism at the same time.

 

[YoHo]

Oooo, I like that.

 

[timtofly]

Anyone else find it humorous you cant have Piety and Rationalism active at the same time?

Uumm.... that would be the seperation of God and man.

Free Religion actually allows you to choose Rationalism and one of it's Policies while completely shutting down the effects of God's benefits. Is that not what Rationalist strive for.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Opportunity costs are a penalty you take.

 

[Bandobras Took]

Especially since the last tech is Free Religion which not only should be able to work with the idea of Rationalism, it stands in contrast to the Theocracy policy.

Only if the religion in question believes in forcing people to its beliefs. A religion can preach freedom of religion as a necessity, and rule by such a religion would not necessarily equate to the exile of all others.

 

[JBConquests]

JBConquests:

Serious question: if, after 9/11, the US had NOT initiated any war of any kind whatsoever, do you think everything would just be hunky dory?

The wars didn't really do much to slow down/stop terrorism. The terrorist training camps just move to other countries. The CIA drone strikes have had a dramatic effect on disrupting terrorism though they aren't solving the problem either.

This wasn't my point though, in the US there was some unhappiness due to these wars. Partly due to war weariness but partly due to the fact that these wars weren't justified.

 

[JBConquests]

Umm....what?

You do know that the US declared war on Spain, kicking off the Spanish-American War and this was backed up immensely by the American people. In any case, democracies should be able to declare without an unhappiness penalty but receive penalties once units start getting lost.

Of course, the USS Maine being sunk appeared to be an attack on the US by Spain and we responded by declaring war. In that case, it was perceived as we didn't initiate the war but that Spain had declared war on the US and we were retaliating. Even though the sinking of the Maine was likely an accident...

In any case, in the game of Civ there is no such "accidental sinking of a ship", losing a ship due to Spain attacking it would have been a result of Spain declaring war first. Thus, no unhappiness.

 

[salaminizer]

in my opinion, SP would fit the game better as traits extracted from your actions. you could still probably manipulate it, but they would reflect your gameplay style (how your civ behaves) instead of shaping it. something similar to how it works right now, but you get an unknown policy instead of picking one.

it wouldn't be random though, there would be criterias like happiness, money, military actions, etc. I haven't put much thought on it, it's just an idea. and I would try to bring civics back too.

and like someone said, the policies don't reflect government or civ structure like civics did, and for me there's simply no immersion now. I can name a few policies, but that's just it. it's just too much fractured to be meaningful, and the fact that you have to complete trees to get a victory just makes it worse.

 

[Sonereal]

Of course, the USS Maine being sunk appeared to be an attack on the US by Spain and we responded by declaring war. In that case, it was perceived as we didn't initiate the war but that Spain had declared war on the US and we were retaliating. Even though the sinking of the Maine was likely an accident...

The USS Maine's boiler simply exploded. It was people like Randolph Hearst and other yellow journalists trying to go for bigger, more sensational stories. At the time, the American people wanted a war with Spain to help the Cubans since the media was so pro-Cuba and Spanish leaders insulted the president.

The Maine stopped in the Havana to simply protect American lives and property because of the sugar cane. The idea that Spain would intentionally sink the ship of the regional power with a full iron army compared to the wooden ships of the aging Spanish Fleet is strange and as far as some are concerned, it was a simple accident that lead to war because one side was already trying to find an excuse to go to war.

But I'm not sure what we're arguing. Americans wanted to go to war with Spain.

 

[Bad Brett]

Was it noticable? Slavery was the best civic in that tree until Free Speech.

No way. Bueracracy can be ridiculously powerful even in larger empires. Think about it:

Your capital has 8 base commerce. With about 10 worked towns and some trade routes, you could easily have 80 commerce in your capital. We add bueracracy. Those 80 commerce just turned into 120. Now, add a library, a university, an observatory and Oxford University. Yeah, that's right, +175% science. This means that your capital alone potentially could produce 330 beakers by the time you research Astronomy. Choosing Slavery instead would mean a loss of 90 beakers per turn!

 

[Bandobras Took]

You guys are getting confused:

Slavery vs Emancipation

Bureaucracy vs Free Speech

Feel free to continue the discussion.

 

[Bad Brett]

You guys are getting confused:

Slavery vs Emancipation

Bureaucracy vs Free Speech

Feel free to continue the discussion.

Whoops. Of course you're right. Which makes the statement about Slavery even more strange. I can't see why anyone would choose Slavery over Caste System. And if I can afford the happiness penalty, I'd choose Caste System over Emanicipation as well. Statue of Liberty + Mercantilism + Representation = 12 free science in every city, even those that don't have libraries. Caste System also let's you decide what kind of GP you want. If you want to found Sid's Sushi, you can turn 10 citizens into merchants. A bunch of artists can be really helpful in newly conquered cities.

 

[JBConquests]

But I'm not sure what we're arguing. Americans wanted to go to war with Spain.

Based on a misrepresentation that Spain initiated the war.

 

[Sonereal]

Based on a misrepresentation that Spain initiated the war.

Wait? What?

People like Hearst were drumming up support for the war for a long time by then. Many Americans were sympathetic to the Cubans and wanted a war already. If war had been declared simply after the insults levied against the president at the time, Americans still would've supported the war.

Whoops. Of course you're right. Which makes the statement about Slavery even more strange. I can't see why anyone would choose Slavery over Caste System. And if I can afford the happiness penalty, I'd choose Caste System over Emanicipation as well. Statue of Liberty + Mercantilism + Representation = 12 free science in every city, even those that don't have libraries. Caste System also let's you decide what kind of GP you want. If you want to found Sid's Sushi, you can turn 10 citizens into merchants. A bunch of artists can be really helpful in newly conquered cities.

Whooops. I'm got messed up (thinking of RAND).

 

[Biz_]

there are penalties

going for social policies means you cannot make extra cities

cities are 0 maintenance, so that's a pretty big disadvantage

 

[Sonereal]

there are penalties

going for social policies means you cannot make extra cities

cities are 0 maintenance, so that's a pretty big disadvantage

lolwut?