Implications of an ingame mod browser

[JtW]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but it occurred to me, that the possibility to browse and install mods in-game is probably going to have a serious impact on the way mods are perceived.

Currently, an average Joe who doesn't know about the community has played the standard game and (if he dug it up in the Advanced menu) maybe the mods included with BtS. I know a LOT of people who play Civilization and aren't aware of the great mod community and of the possibilities it gives.

Now, with Civ5's inclusion of an in-game mod browser, mods are going to be incredibly easy to find and install. I think we will have lots of mod players we wouldn't have had before: people who aren't as tech-savvy or don't have the time to surf the web on the search for a mod.

I am wondering if this is going to change the quality of mods in any way. Are they going to be more transparent/less feature packed/whatever to accommodate to the wider audience? I don't know...

 

[stealth_nsk]

Depends on how easy it will be to found something relative. If they have ratings, number of downloads, categories, tags and stuff, all searchable and sortable - I assume there will be wider audience.

But I'd wait before actual any modding info arrive.

 

[salaminizer]

your conclusion was surprising to me, I think it can only get better with more people accessing mods and probably requesting/requiring more quality from them. it can also "open" gamers eyes to things they wouldn't realize. a kind of extreme example: if someone didn't see the "Better AI" mod, they wouldn't notice how "bad" the vanilla one is, they could just assume "it works like that".

they can also think "oh, I have this cool idea, how/where can I contribute?"

 

[Jamuka]

Starcraft 2 has a very accessible in-game mod browser. Most people who have own the game have at least tried the top few mods. A significant portion of people spend more time playing mods than anything else. The result has been a lot of very high quality and constantly updated mods. The mods at the top of the list (sorted by popularity) seems to change frequently.

 

[Tylerryan79]

I think it will be the same as now in the amount, and quality. Within the last year is when I discovered mods, and frankly the amount is overwhelming! The only ones I myself have tried are the more mainstream ones, or ones people have recommended. There is always going to be low quality mods, and high quality ones, and 5 years from now it will look as it is now with a mixture of both, except hopefully more people enjoying them!

 

[Seven05]

I am wondering if this is going to change the quality of mods in any way. Are they going to be more transparent/less feature packed/whatever to accommodate to the wider audience? I don't know...

It'll sink or swim based on how it is able to handle more complex mods and the ability to have multiple mods active. A big part of this will revolve around how Civ 5 handles mods moreso than how the mod browser itself works though. Take the modular XML from Civ 4 as an example, it had great potential but was hindered by which XML files worked with the modular format and limited by complications with SDK and Python mods.

If we end up with a mod browser than can only handle installing the most basic of mods it may help get people interested in what mods are available but it may not help the less technically savvy players. In fact, it may bog down the mod community with even more 'how to install' questions and end up discouraging people from getting involved.

On the other hand if the mod browser can handle large, complex mods and has a system in place to allow even basic combining of mods (such as using a load order when selecting multiple mods) it may be a boon. Allowing players to use a custom civilization or two along with some new units from another mod and map scripts or static maps from yet another all on top of something like Civ 4's Blue Marble without requiring them to manually merge any of it would be very helpful. On the same note, not needing a three page set of instructions on how to install something like Fall From Heaven would really open up mods for mass consumption, they wouldn't even need to be 'dumbed down'

Now if Greg would let the cat out of the bag we could speculate a little less, somebody go poke him.

Edit: I guess I skipped the whole quality comment, didn't I? I don't know if it will have much of an effect either way, making mods is much more complicated than using them but if we end up with far more mod users it should result in more (and hopefully better) feedback for mod authors. In turn, more feedback should result in higher quality, we can hope anyway.

 

[JtW]

I think you people had some very valid points. I think it boils down to:

1) A rating system or a lack thereof - if it can be seen at a glance which mods are popular and/or high quality, it will encourage the developers to care even more: those at the top will have a little more extra gratification, those at the bottom will have a way to see that their mod lacks something...

2) The ability to install complex mods/multiple mods. This is a big one - and I am afraid it is possible it won't live up to expectations (in particular, I doubt that they will include a possibility to install multiple mods at once.)

2K Greg! Look at our futile speculations and finally let some real info out, would you please?

 

[allypower]

Yeah, so if you like feature from one mod and don't like certain features in that same mod and like feathers from other mod and want to combine them, you probably have to mod it yourself.

Oh question: if you're working on a mod, will steam automatically put your mod up to the community WITHOUT your permission?

 

[Szpilman]

I'm also extremely interested in these in-game browsing. I have read you will even be able to access one Civ community site (is that CivFanatics?), put in those words.

A community style browsing, with profiles where a modder can have his contributions listed, and mods have profiles with ratings, downloads etc. would greatly benefit modding in every way conceivable, imo.

 

[Seven05]

Oh question: if you're working on a mod, will steam automatically put your mod up to the community WITHOUT your permission?

It does not do that with any of the other Steam games I've modded, or any of the non-steam games for that matter. Considering that you'll have to upload them somewhere and automatic uploads would flood the system with bugged, in progress and test version of mods it's a pretty safe bet that you won't have to worry about anything like that happening.

 

[The_J]

your conclusion was surprising to me, I think it can only get better with more people accessing mods and probably requesting/requiring more quality from them.

Can also lead to idiotic comments (a lot more) and flaming, especially when the mod is still young and unpolished.
Both can happen.
We hope for your imagination .

If we end up with a mod browser than can only handle installing the most basic of mods it may help get people interested in what mods are available but it may not help the less technically savvy players. In fact, it may bog down the mod community with even more 'how to install' questions and end up discouraging people from getting involved.

There can't really be more "how to install" questions than at the moment.
At one time someone even asked how to install a mod, although it was an .exe file.
-> will sure be an improvement.

I think you people had some very valid points. I think it boils down to:

1) A rating system or a lack thereof - if it can be seen at a glance which mods are popular and/or high quality, it will encourage the developers to care even more: those at the top will have a little more extra gratification, those at the bottom will have a way to see that their mod lacks something...

Seeing that even active community members abuse the rating system sometimes here at CFC, i would say that you can't completly trust the rating system, especially when looking at the first point i mentioned here.

 

[Szpilman]

But I think the smaller the community, the more it is vulnerable to trolling and flaming, especially when you consider a niche and fanatic community like ours. When you broaden the appeal to the bigger world out there, the ratings even out statistically, or at least tend to. Otherwise systems like Amazon's and Apple's would be inherently flawed.

 

[The_J]

But I think the smaller the community, the more it is vulnerable to trolling and flaming, especially when you consider a niche and fanatic community like ours.

That depends, on how familiar the community is.
Here in the modding section, most people are reasonable and most times nice.
But if you extend the spectrum, the amount of trolls will maybe also rise.
But we don't know, we'll have to see.

When you broaden the appeal to the bigger world out there, the ratings even out statistically, or at least tend to. Otherwise systems like Amazon's and Apple's would be inherently flawed.

You don't know, if they are, right?

 

[Seven05]

There can't really be more "how to install" questions than at the moment.
At one time someone even asked how to install a mod, although it was an .exe file.
-> will sure be an improvement.

More people = more questions

I am really interested to see if it does bring more players into the community that otherwise wouldn't be here. That hasn't always been the case in other games with built-in mod browsers and similar tools.

Your work here may get a lot more interesting if it does

That depends, on how familiar the community is.
Here in the modding section, most people are reasonable and most times nice.
But if you extend the spectrum, the amount of trolls will maybe also rise.
But we don't know, we'll have to see.

Yeah, the mod community here is pretty awesome. Even when you have two people that don't agree with what each other are doing with their mod they'll still help and answer questions most of the time. I worry more about the general players, they can get pretty brutal in their arguments back and forth and all of that angst is never a good thing.