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importance of great library

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by 20jordo, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. 20jordo

    20jordo Chieftain

    Oct 16, 2012
    i am a king player, and no matter what if i dont pick up the great library the game seems almost useless to me. i was wondering if there is a way to make up early for that loss.. or perhaps somewhere not too far after the timeline. thanks
  2. wapamingo

    wapamingo Prince

    Sep 19, 2006
    I play emperor, and have not built it once.

    The wonder is not a make or break it. I personally much prefer the Pyramids.

    Early on, its almost impossible to straight up compensate for the research turns. So you must focus your research on one or maybe two key paths. Typically something military, as a military gap is very dangerous.

    Over time you will catch up: spies, going wide, research agreements with the other lagging civs, conquest

    There is not a single wonder that makes or breaks you, they make it easier. Lol, i am used to just grabbing the few pickings left over and still being ok.
  3. Udey1

    Udey1 Prince

    Aug 28, 2009
    Champaign Illinois
    I dont think GL is important at all, not with the current tech tree. At high levels you usually have to rush it hard, and then the payoff isnt that awesome, and on lower levels you dont need the bump anyways.

    There are exceptions, there always are, but generally- meh.
  4. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

    Oct 5, 2012
    Yeah I just wouldn't go for it. Going for the GL and losing it (pretty common what with the AI being very grabby hands about it) will hurt you more than getting it helps you. All that time spent with building the Great Library could be used just getting the regular library up plus a bit of a defensive front.
  5. Wargizmo

    Wargizmo Warlord

    Jan 5, 2011
    You're better off building an early granery, worker and shrine instead. The extra pop growth in your capital is by far the most important thing to do for the first 30 turns. To be honest I don't think any of the ancient era wonders are worth it considering what else you could be building. Once you get the national college up and running you'll be fine keeping up with the AI in tech on anything less than deity, and on deity you'd never get the great library anyway.
  6. Arilian

    Arilian King

    Jan 18, 2008
    It is not important at all.
    I never try to build it anymore.
  7. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Sep 17, 2010
    In mp games with some experience you can detect if you have a really good chance at it or not. For levels like emperor or below there is some occasions where you can build it even after settling 3 more cities.

    A powerful start with the GL is something like this :

    2-3 deer/wheat tiles start(and maybe also starting on a hill) with some forests around.

    Tech order : Pottery-writing-mining-HR-Calendar
    Build order : Monument/granary/GL

    Free worker from Liberty chopping forests(buy some if needed to get max hammers return) and grow your city until 6-7 :c5citizen. Get Philo, build some units and a shrine then NC before starting settlers when you get Collective Rule.

    This start is pretty powerful with proper terrain.
  8. 20jordo

    20jordo Chieftain

    Oct 16, 2012
    thank you all!
  9. Halcyan2

    Halcyan2 Emperor

    May 12, 2012
    The GL isn't strictly necessary.

    However, I like it because it is often a convenient way to quickly get the NC (if you wait to build your next cities):

    1. Research Writing

    2. Instead of hard building a Library (75 hammers) you instead spend an extra 110 hammers (for 185 total) for the Great Library, which provides you a free Library, +3 Science, 1 culture, and a GS point (which can help you get an early GS).

    3. While you're building the GL, you research Calendar so that when the GL is finished you instantly get Philosophy. If you only have your capital, you can immediately build the NC.

    I feel that the extra turns building the GL (versus hard building a Library) are worth it in terms of the time it saves getting Philosophy and starting NC early. (Of course, some players wait to build NC once they have 4 cities set up so this strategy would not be as helpful for them).
  10. cakes

    cakes Prince

    Apr 26, 2012
    building the GL always encourages me to then go for NC and then a whole bunch of other wonders, which means that the army i have neglected to build cannot prevent alexander from permanently borrowing my empire
  11. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

    May 10, 2008
    Can't use it to slingshot into medieval anymore on lower levels, never could do that on higher levels, so I don't think it is a very good wonder.

    AI gets a couple free techs anyway, one more won't hurt. Plus, AI will just use it on something stupid like some tech to get giant biceps even though those aren't a very useful muscle unless you're ringing church bells all day.

    Hanging Gardens gives you 6 food for 3 pop approximately = 3 science, so there's the passive. Also free garden, flexibility to work mines while still growing, it's a military tech so you can build it after your army is deployed to kill the guy who built the GL to stop him from building the Oracle too.
  12. Strio

    Strio Chieftain

    Aug 14, 2012
    In fact, I think many of the early wonders are a hindrance!

    If you really want a great start, get your foundation up and running. On higher levels you are actually shooting yourself in the foot grabbing wonders.

    Build up a military, and go grab someone else's wonders.
  13. Chee

    Chee Warlord

    Aug 7, 2010
    I used to always build it when playing at lower levels. Now I play Immortal, I never even attempt it.

    Much better off expanding and building military.
  14. Djinn8

    Djinn8 Chieftain

    Dec 22, 2008
    At the moment GL is useful for two things: boosting to Iron Working, or boosting to Philosophy so you can double down on the science lead.

    On Emperor or higher it's impossible to tech far enough to reach any of these options before the GL is built by another civ. I managed to build the GL once on Immortal, but it was so rushed I had no good choices for my free tech and it was just a waste of hammers.

    The GL becomes more useful if you start the game in classic. You have more chance to build it and you have a few options for where to go with the free tech: horseriding/construction (whichever one you didn't take) to get you military of the ground; philosophy (for a watered down science lead) and currency to get an economic lead. I don't think it's possible to build it in time to boost yourself to medieval however.

    Another possible option is if you are hurting for cash, start building the GL. Some other civ will beat you to it and you'll get some pity gold. It can help towards buying that first settler. That is assuming you don't have the cash to support building more buildings or units.
  15. Sidor1982

    Sidor1982 Warlord

    Oct 1, 2012
    My last deity game the GL went on turn 21 (even if I beelined for Writing I wouldn't get the tech before it was built :). It usually goes around turn 27 - 30 on deity and immortal, but you can try to build it on lower levels and smaller maps. The bonus it gives is relatively large as it is not only the free tech but also free library and +3 beakers per turn in the capitol, so the tech boost is large in the early game. But you can also go for 4-5 cities quick expansion with MoG or one city quick National College to get similar amount of beakers per turn.
  16. kamex

    kamex Emperor

    Sep 13, 2008
    Although its not easy to get on Emp or above, you may still want to prioritise it as Korea (and maybe Babylon) as they get an extra boost from their UA.
  17. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

    Mar 17, 2008
    Agree with the not important players.
    And agree with the most early wonders not important.
    The only early one I hard build that I try to get is the one with the free Great Person.
    That is used for midevil wonders such as PT.
  18. Billy Rubin

    Billy Rubin breakdown product of HB

    Jul 21, 2004
    Your bloodstream
    I mostly play on emperor or immortal and never build it.

    As someone else said, the AI is usually rather quick to build it and I'm usually busy with building a shrine, granary and worker at that stage. If I go for early wonders, I usually go for Stonehenge or the Pyramids, as I prefer great engineers over scientists.

    As a matter of fact, I usually research writing comparatively late in the game as I don't consider libraries all that useful when cities are still small and I want the AI civs money for establishing embassies because I buy my first settlers instead of producing them.

    I usually don't have any trouble catching up later.
  19. Priah77

    Priah77 Chieftain

    Apr 16, 2012
    Great library is great and I agree that it does give a very nice advantage. Problem is on higher levels you need to focus much more on military and the AI gets it a ******** turn, 27 - 30 is correct for deity, turn 38 - 45 on immortal (i think?).

    Thus, I havnt once tried to get it on a deity game, just isnt a viable option. Id agree though on getting it on king and below...
  20. mintcandy

    mintcandy King

    Apr 10, 2012
    The Great Library is nice, but hardly necessary, especially on King or below.

    I've found that being addicted to certain World Wonders is one of the biggest hurdles in being able to tackle harder difficulties.

    The easiest World Wonders to let go of are those that provide a bonus every turn, especially if the bonus affects the empire as a whole. Why? Because it means that I can conquer the foolish civ that wasted hammers on building said Wonders with units I built instead of building the Wonder in question.

    I'm okay with not building the Notre Dame when striving for a domination victory, because the hammers I saved in not building it can be used for units to conquer the city that did build it.

    The World Wonders I have the hardest time letting go of are the ones that provide one time bonuses when built, like the Great Library and the Oracle, because only one civ gets their bonuses. Ugh. :p

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