importance of great library

[Donaskme]

i am a king player, and no matter what if i dont pick up the great library the game seems almost useless to me. i was wondering if there is a way to make up early for that loss

I play King level and never go for the GL. A rapid three or four city start with National College done at turn ~100 is all you need for a solid tech lead. About the only wonder I ever think about at that stage is the Pyramid when I'm too isolated to steal a couple workers early. And usually, I just think about it, but never build it either.

When I get a big yen for wonders, I just kill Ramses

 

[budweiser]

"I always go for the Great Library" - This is sub-optimal.

"I never go for the Great Library" - Equally sub-optimal.

Of course there is a time and a place where the human player can build it and profit from it by gaining a tech that would otherwise take a long time to research: 24t Philo or Drama & Poetry

I believe it is best to skip the Library of you want to play for it.

If you find yourself with Marble and it hasn't gone by turn 30 to 40 or so, it was probably meant to be yours. Pottery>Writing>Mining>Masonry.

 

[Tabarnak]

If you find yourself with Marble and it hasn't gone by turn 30 to 40 or so, it was probably meant to be yours. Pottery>Writing>Mining>Masonry.

You can always skip masonry and settle on marble to get instant bonus access.

 

[budweiser]

You can always skip masonry and settle on marble to get instant bonus access.

No, you only save the worker turns. You still need the tech. Dont you?

I can never bring myself to settle on a resource. I just cant do it.

 

[Donaskme]

"I always go for the Great Library" - This is sub-optimal.

"I never go for the Great Library" - Equally sub-optimal.

Sub-optimal is a relative term. When your skills are as shabby as mine, refusing to go for the GL is very optimal!

 

[RedRover57]

GL is nice, but there are 4 other early wonders that I would rather build (if I'm going for wonders at all):

Pyramids - when going wide or ICS. Capital needs a lot of hammers to build it and not slow down expansion rate too much though.

Temple of Artemis - Better than the GL for tall empires IMO (and its on the way to the Hanging Gardens), but the AI usually also beelines this hard.

Stonehenge - In situations where certain religious beliefs will be really helpful and you need it to grab an early religion (e.g., cultural victory or ICS strategy)

Statue of Zeus - For a domination strategy obviously, but very hard to get as the AI loves this wonder. Also, if you're going domination you're probably building units instead of early wonders anyway.

 

[Tabarnak]

You still need the tech. Dont you?

You don't need the tech. You immediately get 25% wonder bonus on turn 0.

I can never bring myself to settle on a resource. I just cant do it.

You should. This increase significantly the pace of the empire(game) especially when you settle on jungled ressources. Best luxs to settle on are those who don't bring extra hammers or food, i.e calendar ressources. Best of bests are calendar ressources on plain tiles.

There is situations where settling on ressources reduce too grantly the growth rate of that city. You don't want, for example, settle on a marble ressource to lose a 2nd ring cow tile that you need to buy early and also lose 2 or 3 other ressources around without knowing if your 2nd city can get them later.

But as for the OP, settling on a marble ressource while having forests and stuff around can garantee you the GL in most cases.

 

[gozpel]

I personally much prefer the Pyramids.

I couldn't agree more, 2 workers and swifter workers all over your lands are so much better than any ancient wonder. And it seems like the AI wants HG and stuff before the Pyramids, so you can even take your time building it.

Basically, during the whole game, the GLiB is maybe worth 2-3 techs.

It's only worth it if you're doing a run for something in techs, and if you get it you win something. Still, leave it alone and if you REALLY want it, take it.

 

[Cedbird]

By the time I get to GL I have at least two cities and planning on at least two or three more . If you have several cities you can use your cap city to go for a wonder here and there . Your research and defense will not lag if you plant your cities in the right place . I love GL because I think the game is very simple . Tech , defense , cultural , money . Pay attention in that order with defense being a close second to tech and maybe first in some instances . Your good

 

[Socratatus]

I think in previous Civs the Great library was a lot more important. You only get one free Tech while you got two in previous civs, I think.

You can miss it quite easily and get by now. Seems like such an important building should give you an extra tech knowledge.

 

[mintcandy]

I think in previous Civs the Great library was a lot more important. You only get one free Tech while you got two in previous civs, I think.

I never played the first Civilization, but no iteration of the Great Library since Civilization II behaved like that.

The Great Library in Civ II and Civ III behaved similarly to the Internet in Civ IV...

...it automatically granted technology that had been discovered by two-three civilizations.

It is great to build if you aren't in the top three in the tech race, but it sucks otherwise.

The Great Library in Civ IV didn't automatically grant free technology. It gave you two Scientist specialists for free in the same city.

I would argue that the Civ V iteration of the Great Library is actually more powerful than the previous iterations, because Civ V prevents players from just trading for tech.

 

[budweiser]

I think in original civ it gave you techs that other civs already knew.

 

[Adjuvant]

I sometimes build great library on emperor, rarely on immortal. On emp+ (I don't think king) AI starts with writing, and if they want it, you have to try hard to get it.

Generally it's good for an important springboard, but if you're just building it to build it without a plan, it's kind of a waste. Mayan (beelining early theocracy) or Korea (be prepared for the massive science springboard) are 2 really good reasons.

Another might be for an early-single-city Rome quickly teching iron for conquest. By then you'll have a 6-8 city quickly producing legions and can attrition just about any close neighbor, and your subsequent capitulates, annexed or otherwise, gain the building production bonus from a solidly built capitol. You can then also build your road network, having spent little resource building workers to that point.

Just a few ideas, but the point is "have a plan to springboard" or don't bother.

 

[chmilz]

Immortal player here: haven't built the GL since G&K launched. You are much better served using those turns getting a religion and cranking out faith. Tech is hardest late-game, and if you save up faith you can buy GS when you take Rationalism (you DO take rationalism, right?).

My last game (standard size, Immortal, Incans), around electricity/flight, I bought 3 GS and popped 4 techs in the same turn, cash bought a dozen bombers, proceeded to commit mass genocide on a global scale. Screw the GL

 

[mintcandy]

Just a few ideas, but the point is "have a plan to springboard" or don't bother.

I couldn't agree more.

The Great Library doesn't mesh well with an impulse directionless play style.

 

[Tachii]

I sometimes build great library on emperor, rarely on immortal. On emp+ (I don't think king) AI starts with writing, and if they want it, you have to try hard to get it.

I don't think they start with writing on Immortal. Because I always met civs in early turns when I can't sell my embassies too (mostly aggro civs). But I'm pretty sure for many it's their first tech to research on.

 

[Browd]

On Immortal, the AI starts with Aminal Husbandry, Pottery and Mining.

On Diety, add The Wheel.

On Emperor, subtract Mining

On King, subtract Mining and Animal Husbandry.

Below King, no starting techs for the AI.

 

[budweiser]

On Immortal, the AI starts with Aminal Husbandry, Pottery and Mining.

On Diety, add The Wheel.

On Emperor, subtract Mining

On King, subtract Mining and Animal Husbandry.

Below King, no starting techs for the AI.

So thats why the Great Library can go so fast. It really should not be out in play at 2000BC.

 

[Browd]

And keep in mind that the Diety AI gets an extra settler, so in addition to already having Pottery they will also have a few more beakers early on from the second city (plus more pop due to their crazy growth bonuses -- sigh), so Writing will go fast, assuming they prioritize it (I'm always amazed in Deity games where some AI still can't buy my embassy at turn 50+ -- beelining iron working?).

 

[Tachii]

And keep in mind that the Diety AI gets an extra settler, so in addition to already having Pottery they will also have a few more beakers early on from the second city (plus more pop due to their crazy growth bonuses -- sigh), so Writing will go fast, assuming they prioritize it (I'm always amazed in Deity games where some AI still can't buy my embassy at turn 50+ -- beelining iron working?).

I think I've seen Denmark beelined to Steel before. I remember wondering just when they'd let me sell my embassy and start seeing Berserkers. Should've screenshoted.