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Important things to realize about civ that will keep you sane

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by xDestroyerx, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    @Timsup2nothin
    I would call that disproportionate impact and not really a problem, actual weighting towards attacking, not making peace, or other things is what i'm thining about by anti player bias. For example in an indirect sense humans are more likely targets than AIs at high levels because our power levels will always be potential targets for all AIs for much of the game, but more worrying and direct is the annoying tendency to make trades like wheat for iron between each other :mad:, never seen this behaviour explained either...
    You might be suprised by the level of detail that can be found on this forum.
    The biggest issue is filtering out the junk, especially when 'AI' is too short for a search term :sad:. But I did find this, some code diving and testing, and this a demonstration set up to prove that AIs do not see resources before getting the required tech.

    By relaxed fog of war rules I mean that AI are said to be able to see as far as their movement (other things are also claimed like city positions, potential city sites), basically they do cheat but its not worldbuilderlike. Think about it, if it was worldbuilderlike it would mean AIs would meet every single rival civ instantly as the game starts!
    I think the most accurate interpretation of how it works is that the AI can see through fog for certain purposes such as target finding, and this fits well with the easily testable barb galley 7 tile 'sight' rule on entering borders for pillaging.
    Discussion was in this thread, most useful stuff on page 3

    Regarding production/research boosts, free starting units etc, etc, this can be found in the CIV4HandicapInfo.xml, or more conveniently layed out on the forum (page 74 of this). The free lump sum hammers on settling AI cities is easiest tested in WB but is in the globaldefines.xml f you want to change it.
     
  2. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    Not a cheat, I am pretty sure. Just a bad implementation from Firaxis.
    Take this just on the same level as fog. Fog is intended to hide land information from you and AI's, but in fact, it is rather a thin veil. "To Go" trick, flying cam, blue circles, small portion revealed when rerolling a new map and the new starting location has almost the same map coordinates, etc. are indicators the fog doesn't show such intended opacity.

    Exactly in the same manner, worst enemy diplo hits against the careless human player trading with the newcomer from a new continent is likely due to forgetting adding some additional condition/function like isMet() for all unknown AI's towards you.
     
  3. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    I can't believe this. Hey people, someone toiled hard to mash those complex numbers into readable content for all people to get easy reference to.

    Here is THE reference about how to deal the AI's. Period.
     
  4. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    I did extensively read the actual code. I definitely no longer use internet as main beacon for the game SDK. Still, can be ocasionnally useful to hasten the finding of the actual lines of code. If you have questions, I may answer some of them if I got time.

    The developers made a special function (that comes with the original game) called debugger (a tool for modders to test their implementations) or if you want God Mode. You can see everything the AI does except perhaps exact reason why they do this and that.

    Well said. Liked.

    Otherwise, Destroyer, you can go through for some questions.
     
  5. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    For reasons known only to google I couldn't find that at the time. Thanks for the link.
     
  6. PreLynMax

    PreLynMax Your Lord and Master

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    Funny, dude.

    Now this, I disagree with. Sure you can't play a game without warring once, but my last game I played I actually did two phantom wars, and won a diplomatic game.
     
  7. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Professional Killjoy Moderator

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    How do you know that Ghpstage won't understand it? That's quite a supposition on your part. I consider him to be one of the more knowledgeable members of the forum.

    Lay it out for us. Many modders look in on these threads, (including myself), and so do some very knowledgeable players like Tachywaxon and God Emperor. Someone should be able to understand it.
     
  8. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Doesn't "Important things to realize about civ that will keep you sane" presuppose that you were sane to start with?
     
  9. xDestroyerx

    xDestroyerx Chieftain

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    As a matter of fact it does, I think I overestimated the mental stability of far too many people :lol: I failed to realize I'd have to present my 50 page dissertation on civ along with this.
     
  10. King Pluto

    King Pluto Emperor

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    There's quite a few people here (especially over at S&T) who could have a PhD in Civ-ology :goodjob:
     
  11. xDestroyerx

    xDestroyerx Chieftain

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    And quite a few more who think they could ;) Although I haven't reverted to the "PLAY ME ONE ON ONE AND SEE HOW QUICKLY YOU LOSE @#$!" argument yet so I guess things can't be that bad?
     
  12. kochman

    kochman Deity

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    +1 to this.

    The fact that Destroyer is saying you can never make peace with these AIs shows that he doesn't understand the very code he's referring to.

    I ROUTINELY make peace with all those AIs that are alleged to never make peace... not once or twice.
    Usually, we end up at war again... but peace is made regularly.

    Ah, the old, "if you disagree with me you are wrong and possibly crazy" point of view.
    That should get your far here. I guarantee you don't have a better understanding of this than everyone here who is proving you wrong... moreover, you can't deny the experiences of players outside of XML codes that apply a "cost" or "likelihood" to a situation as if those single lines of code operate independently.
    Try looking past that into the REAL code, not the tagging, and find out which other lines of code influence such things?
     
  13. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Just to be clear, when I said this it was intended to be funny word play on the title of the thread, not cast any doubt on the sanity of anyone involved in the thread.
     
  14. xDestroyerx

    xDestroyerx Chieftain

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  15. crazyotto65

    crazyotto65 Chieftain

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    What some players feel is the AI 'cheating' is likely nothing more than the fact that the AI will not/can not 'forget' (for lack of a better word) anything that it knows (or 'can' know, if you will)! A human player is likely to (occasionally) forget a certain detail now and again - where a stray unit is, when a worker will be finished with a certain task, where there is a resource that needs improving, when a city will pop, etc... An AI will NEVER 'forget' any of this! That gives the AI (a computer algorithim), in certain situations, an almost godlike ability (multiple simultaneous calculations) that a human just does not possess - at least at my level. (I am currently a Prince level player).
     

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