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Improvement Ideas and Discussion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by 0100010, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. Northstar1989

    Northstar1989 Warlord

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    Triremes need to be trainable later into the game.


    As it currently stands, they are often obsolete before you can even build them- as building them requires "Ship Building", but Bronze Working replaces them with Quinquremes in the build queue. Most players will research Bronze Working before "Ship Building", and in fact it requires a very convoluted path to get Ship Building before Bronze working at all. In history, by contrast, the Trireme was the dominant polyreme naval warship for centuries...


    This makes the "Quest" from the original game of building a certain number of Triremes before any other civilization (15 Triremes in my game) or the Renaissance all but impossible.


    I suggest a solution to this in making Quinquremes available later in the game. They should not be available in the Early Bronze Age- in fact historically they were not produced until Dionysius I of Syracuse, in 399 BC.

    I suggest Quinquremes be moved to Iron Working (currently occupied by Decaremes), and Decaremes be moved to some tech later in the Classical Period- as historically they were not produced in significant numbers until much later than Quinquremes, and were only really important in a few key naval battles at the height of the Classical Period (they are mentioned in battles in 315 BC, 201 BC, and at Actium in 51 BC).


    Regards,
    Northstar


    P.S. As it currently stands, the Decere is incorrectly named a "Decareme"- hence why the description author could not find anything about it online, and *incorrectly* wrote "no such things exists according to the internet". The "Decareme" unit should be re-named as a "Decere" unit.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic-era_warships#Deceres
     
  2. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Good observations perhaps but irrelevant to the subject of improvements. Could you port your suggestions over to a unit thread?
     
  3. LumenAngel

    LumenAngel King

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    Is it possible to have <Improvment> in city vicinity as a requirement for buildings?
    If yes, I think farms can be one for Farmer Market or for others agricultural buildings.
     
  4. Flinx

    Flinx Prince

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    @LumenAngel
    you might have a look at the building Farm Supply.
    Code:
    <BuildingInfo>
    	<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_FARM_SUPPLY</BuildingClass>
    	<Type>BUILDING_FARM_SUPPLY</Type>
    	.
            .		
    	<PrereqOrImprovement>
    		<PrereqImprovement>
    			<ImprovementType>IMPROVEMENT_FARM</ImprovementType>
    			<bPrereqImprovement>1</bPrereqImprovement>
    		</PrereqImprovement>
    	</PrereqOrImprovement>
    	.		
    	.
    </BuildingInfo>
     
  5. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    What's with the 'cultural' improvements - Moai and Geoglyph are 'in' but what's up with Stone Circle, Mesoam & Asian Temples, Pyramid and Ziggurat? Are new unique workers to build them yet to be made, or are they just shelved?

    If it's the former, I guess I could copy the Andean Worker and do that... if you want me to...
     
  6. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    They are broken. 0100010 added in the new improvements and broke the old; some of which were from wonders. All of them need to be looked at. The Andean workers - 2 could build Nazca Lines and the other two could build a Macchu Pichcu improvement on mountains. We need to get the wonder part working again which may mean removing what is currently there.

    The the two workers that can build Geoglyphs need to be renamed Geoglyph Workers and the improvement/build restored to what it was. Currently it times out about when you can start building it I think.

    The implementation of the Machu Picchu eventually used in C2C means that you don't need to build the Machu Picchu improvement on mountains because it just gives all your mountains a bonus production - but only those in your nation at the time it is built. The wonder should give your nation the what the Mountaineering Tech does making it a very good wonder.
     
  7. 0100010

    0100010 Prince

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    I did alter some of the effects and terrain placement rules for moai and geoglyph but I don't recall intentionally severing what workers could build them, so they should still be buildable.

    The other new ones are not yet linked up to any workers. I was hoping there would be more discussion and debate about how to proceed with them, but that never materialized.

    Now would be a good time for poeple to start offering up ideas, tying them to religious workers and/or cultural workers in one route.
     
  8. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    The geoglyphs can be built for about 10-20 turns after I build the wonder then I can't build them any more so something has changed somewhere. I just haven't had time to figure it out yet. I am not against these just mildly annoyed that one of my favorite wonders has stopped working.
     
  9. 0100010

    0100010 Prince

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    Current build rules for Geoglyph

    Must be built on flat lands

    Can only be built on Barren, Desert, Salt Flats, Scrub and Rocky Terrains.

    They CANNOT be build on the above terrains if those terrains contain:
    Tarpit, Crater, Rainwater Basin, Oasis, or Food Plain

    Growth Features (forests, Savanna, Sword Grass ans Cactus) require removal for it to be built.

    They have an iUnique range of 2. This means that once you have built one, you cannot build another one within two tile ranges of an existing one.

    The Star gazing Tech is require to enable the build action.

    So plan accordingly, you have to have valid terrain types and those terrain types have to be spaced far enough apart to build them. My intent was to restrict the overall number of valid spaces so they won't be built everywhere since they give you a culture range gain.

    Did your attempts to build a geoglyph meet all those requirements?

    All the other culture improvements follow a similar pattern albeit with different terrain type rules.

    For example Moai CAN be placed on hills, but CANNOT be placed next to freshwater. Then also can only be placed on Barren, Desert, Lush, Grass and Plains

    They require the same growth feature removal and cannot be placed on Tarpits, Craters or Rainwater Basins. They like all culture improvements have an iUnique range of 2.
     
  10. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    The number of barren terrains is to low to have that limit of two spaces between them. That is probably the bit that was making me think it was broken. I only had 5 barren terrain plots and all were next to the one city.
     
  11. 0100010

    0100010 Prince

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    That was why I added the additional terrain types as valid.

    Do you also have no salt flats, desert, scrub and Rocky available?
     
  12. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Not for that city. It was placed to get at a rare resource. Mostly mountains, then barren, then the two forested hills one with copper.

    Also there are much better improvements for desert, scrub and rocky. There are no other improvements for barren.

    edit I am finding it annoying that gatherer improvements are not upgrading because to do it will cost another gatherer in particular the scavenging camps/nomadic herds to pasture or horse pasture.
     
  13. Northstar1989

    Northstar1989 Warlord

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    There was some discussion of this in which I participated earlier, and seemed to be some consensus that animal spawn rates could use a slight adjustment upwards, so as to delay the state that eventually evolves of animals becoming virtually extinct on the map by the beginning of the Ancient Era...


    I would suggest, in accordance with earlier discussion, that default animal spawn rates be adjusted upwards by 10-15% before the freeze of the SVN.


    This would be a rather moderate increase to animal spawn rates- and would delay animals becoming overly-rare on the map before a realistic (or fun) time...

    It would also add slightly to the danger or challenge of surviving in the wilderness, as wandering/traveling units would be more likely to encounter dangerous predators while still recovering from previous encounters... (in real life, predators tend to target weak or injured individuals)


    Please let me know any thoughts on this. I strongly believe in making moderate changes like this to the game when an issue is identified, which might not end up having any exceptional impact on the game experience in the end, rather than going straight to large changes to fix issues like this (wild animals becoming virtually extinct on the map).


    Regards,
    Northstar
     
  14. Northstar1989

    Northstar1989 Warlord

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    Also, what's this about scavenging camps and nomadic herds not upgrading?


    Are you playing with the last release, or the SVN? I've had a save file going for the last release for some time (which I figure I ought to replace with a new save after the next release, what with all the changes to the early Era's, such as my suggested changes to the early military units, and the changes to the default GEM map on which I play my games...), and both those improvements upgrade fine and on their own after a certain number of turns of being worked for me...


    Regards,
    Northstar
     
  15. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    It's one of the annoyances of the current SVN that I've gotta do some work to help resolve... I will be committing myself to that task next.
     
  16. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    The fix 0100010 did for scavenging camps and nomadic herds so that we did not need two breaks down because we have two pasture improvements one for horses and one for the rest. Before we had one each of the scavenging camps and nomadic herd upgrading to one of the two now they do both but only one is valid on any particular resource. There is no decision to be made.
     
  17. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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  18. 0100010

    0100010 Prince

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    Is the intention to reassign an upgrade improvement to the scavenging camp and then trap the upgrade event to make it choose between the assigned upgrade improvement or an alternate upgrade improvement? This sounds hard coded though. Is it possible to replace the upgrade tag with any of the new GOM/evaluation xml or whatever that was called. in order to allow us to determine what improvement it should upgrade to? (or was that your intention all along?)

    (such as "If plot object has bonustype=horse OR bonustype=sheep OR bonustype=cow ... then return nomadic herd else return hunting camp.")

    Note that if you accomplish the above, we could likewise do the same with a merged Stone Tools Workshop/Special Stone workshop, where it upgrade to a quarry if an only if the plot contains quarry bonus types, otherwise it upgrades into a mine.
     
  19. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    We'd need AIAndy for that I think. It'd be just a touch above my head still but maybe eventually I could sort it out.

    Here's my idea though.
    With the whole 'upgrades remove a feature' issue, I'll be adding a tag for AlternativeUpgradeImprovementTypes. This will allow us to assign multiple types of potential upgrades beyond the primary upgrade tag. Then, if the primary upgrade tag improvement would destroy the feature it will send a popup asking the player if the player wishes to go ahead and allow it to upgrade OR select from a list of alternatives (probably only one alternative that would NOT destroy the feature - though these would NOT be required to make for the structure to work) OR select to simply allow the improvement to not upgrade (after which it never will attempt to again until workers replace the improvement on that plot.)

    What we could also do with this AlternativeUpgradeImprovementTypes tag is make it so that if the primary upgrade is somehow invalid for that plot (as in it requires horses but the plot doesn't have any horses) then the system will look for the next valid upgrade among the AlternativeUpgradeImprovementTypes tags and assign the first one there that it finds that is valid (or sent up a popup according to the rules above if that first valid type would destroy the feature on the plot - the list the player would be given would be limited to only those selections that are actually valid on the plot.)

    Ok, I think that would suffice to cover both problems, no?
     
  20. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

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    Keep in mind that you can end up with 1000 Improvements and that you don't want to click through every upgrade all the time. This would end up like having 100 cities and don't use building lists.
     

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