Improvements in No-Man’s-Land and Rival Territory

Khan Quest

Prince
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
317
Location
Right behind you
I’d like to see it somewhat costly, but possible to make improvements in no-man’s-land (land not within anyone’s cultural borders).

Roads
Workers can already build roads outside cultural borders, in open-border rival territory and in adjacent tiles in enemy territory.
No-man’s-land road building should cost some gold, say 2 gold per worker-turn or take twice as long. I picture to new “worker icons” one, a road with a few gold coins, and one, a road with an hourglass. In foreign territory, only 2 gold per worker-turn is available.

Chopping
No change.

Tile Improvements
This can be done in no-man’s-land, but not in rival lands, and also costing gold per worker-turn, again maybe 2.

Border Creep and Improvement Dilapidation
When cultural borders expand and an improvement formery in no-man’s-land or in a rival’s area, one worker-turn is needed to ready it for use. The tile looks improved, but maybe there is a cobweb over a mine or dandelions growing on plantations and farms. (Rats in pastures & camps?)

AI Cheating
This obviously benefits the human player more than the AI. For human players, I expect a road to a no-man’s-land copper mine or horse pasture will very often be ready by the time a first settler is produced. So the AI should cheat – No outside-border road building costs, no dilapidation repair necessary.

Edit - added:
Forts
Forts constructed in no-man’s-land should also cost gold per worker-turn, again maybe 2. A maintenance fee for each military unit occupying a no-man’s-land fort would be assessed. When a military unit ends a turn in the fort, you may select whether that unit will occupy the fort (and receive defensive bonuses) or not.
 
Chopping I agree should be possible, since it can potentially be a strategic benefit to chop forests.

Roads are also immensely useful in neutral ground. However, roads will now have an upkeep cost and if they are located in neutral territory it would be unclear who pays this cost. Still, roads and particularly bridges have been repaired or reconstructed within enemy territory to provide good supply lines, and to move heavy units like artillery and tanks over water. It would be nice if some of these mechanics were possible in civ.

General tile improvements outside of borders are not something I'd want. They aren't useful except possibly as an exploit, and I don't see the reason to allow them. Wait for the borders to expand before building improvements on them. Its how it worked in the real world, even when it was obvious what improvements a tile would later have.
 
yeah sounds like an exploit to me too, unless the ai can handle it.
 
I think that if implemented properly, improvements in neutral land can be good. There would be a one time cost plus a recurring fee of gold, making people actually think about their choices in the game.
 
Chopping needs to be nerfed severely anyway imo - back to the civ 3 equivalent days at the least. (A differentiation between units/buildings is possible, civ IV of course has resource bonuses to wonders, but chopping in civ IV is clearly ridiculous and it would be great if starting from scratch the new system is better). However, whatever it is it is, and allowing workers to get started outside of borders is probably a good idea.

I would be greatly disappointed if roads in neutral lands were not possible - everything else wouldn't matter nearly as much but this would be a blow.
 
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