Improving on Monarch level

[Seraiel]

Somebody already going for Alphabet is good, then you can research Maths, trade and Oracle Construction.

You need CGs once your arbitary cities grow to size 3, and you only need to fogbust where there is fog and where nobody sits already.

You definately need a 2nd Worker to build some Cottages. If you should slow-build him or if whipping Granaries + whipping the Worker depenss on how much anger you can manage. Intuition says, you should delay the Granaries and slow-build 2 Workers to reduce the anger you still got from the Settler whip.

I'm against chopping hard before you got Maths, also 2-3 Cottages are more imprtant than an earlier Granary imho. You can pre-chop to use for WEs / Cats once you got the techs, or, once you already have Cottages. Chopping a Granary or a Worker are good ideas, but you got only Palace commerce, so you simply need a few Cottages asap.

 

[kevtrev]

No shame in replaying, it's a great way to learn. Your 3 cities look far better

-Aren't you going to research AH now you have 2 resources to improve? It will give a discount on writing and alpha is still a long way off.

-Are you going to settle any more cities? The crab sheep spot looks tempting, as does the gold...

-Granaries should be chopped+1-whipped or 2-whipped. Completing them at the right time to get the best possible result food-wise is pretty damn tricky.

-Yes you need more workers to improve your food tiles, connect Haithabu to the trade network, improve the copper and put down some cottages in the cap.

-Spy points go on Mansa because he's the best techer and because he trades whatever he has even if it's a monopoly tech. No point in researching what he's going for because he will trade it with you. That makes it useful to see what he's researching...

 

[Pangaea]

Make sure you only have spy points on Mansa, in others words a 1 on him and 0 on the others in the spy screen. So few points early on that you need everything to get his research to eventually show up.

You need another worker or two, so I'd do that, probably slow building at least one of them. Try to not do pre-math chops as they will be more valuable when you need to chop out elephants and catapults for the war.

If you can grab the gold that would help you out a lot since right now you lack commerce, but it may be tricky with Mansa so close. Otherwise you have spots to your south you can settle, plus the one 1SE of the clam on the tip of the coast.

With both sheep and cow to improve, plus another sheep further south if you settle there next, I'd strongly consider teching AH now. It will be a long while still until you can backfill it after Alpha, so it's probably better to self-tech it youself. Bit unfortunate to self-tech both BW and AH, but it probably makes sense here so you get more food earlier. Food is King.

Not sure I'd build granaries across the board this early, as there are other needs too. Maybe a warrior in Uppsala and a slowbuilt worker each in Nidaros and Haithabu? Then there is the gold thing, but another settler now will be slow in any case, and a city over there expensive. Maybe more important to get out at least one more worker as 1 for 3 cities is on the light side even if it's so early. Not sure what is best in terms of tiles, but if the capital has both corns, it should get out a slowbuilt worker fairly quickly I would think. And it will wear off some whip anger, which is probably high now if you whipped both settlers.

 

[Todelotti]

Turn 57 - 1720 BC

- I've changed the build plan to: Worker in Nidaros, Warrior in Uppsala, Worker in Haithabu
- And changed research to AH as Kevtrev and Pangaea suggested to be able to improve the 2 animal tiles soon. It also seemed to make much sense to me, especially when I got 3 workers that need some work.
- Open Border Agreement with Ramesses
- Can see Mansa's research now. Currently he is researching IW.
- Flood plain farm at Uppsala finished
- Worker moved to flood plain at capital then and cottaged this tile.
- Capital is working the cottage and borrowed the east corn to Haithabu.
- Capital borders pushed. They include now the copper and the south Ivory.
- Capital border expansion also autoconnected Nidaros and Uppsala (via the river). Haithabu is not connected yet.
- Second worker finished and is improving the cow tile (not sure if I should have prefered the copper mine). First worker cottaging the grassland 1N of Nidaros.
- 32/60 hammers invested into Granary while the Capital was regrowing (will be 40/60 when size 4 is reached)
- AH finished and Writing continued (1 turn to go)
- AH revealed horses: They are very far away. I guess we don't care much because we want elepults.

One evil thing happened: Monty pushed borders and grabbed the sheep! He must have a monument, right? Remember that Uppsala isn't going to expand soon to grab the sheep back (0 culture per turn).

If I understand Seraiel correctly we are not researching Alpha now but Math instead and want to trade Math for Alpha (probably with Ramesses). Is that correct?

Also the question is if we should aim for a 4th city now. Nidaros reaches size 4 in 2 turns and whip anger has already disappeared. (Uppsala reaches size 4 in 3 turns as well.) Mansa doesn't cover the Gold yet but his border touches it.

Screenshot and save attached again.

 

[Seraiel]

Sheep Crabs looks nice [emoji4]

To trade Maths against Alpha, you probably ned to research some turns into Alpha or have another tech on top. Maybe you can trade Marhs IW and then Math + Iw against Alpha. Maybe someone also still lacks BW if youre lucky.

 

[Seraiel]

32/60 means, you can 1pop whip the granary. Wait 'til the food-bar is half full, then whip. Like that, the granary will have just enough time to fill itself and you work the tiles as long as possible.

3pop whip a library afterwards and hire 2 scientists to deal with the anger.

 

[Seraiel]

Also: Improve (and connect?) the Ivory, then you get 1 additional which is very great help in the beginnig.

 

[Todelotti]

Turn 72 - 1120 BC

- Writing and Math finished
- All 3 cities connected
- Ivory camped and connected
- Copper mined and connected
- Cow improved and being connected right now
- 3 cottages finished and worked
- 4th cottage being built right now
- Granary and Library in capital whipped (1 or 2 scientist hired)
- Granary whipped in Uppsala
- Granary being built in Haithabu right now
- Settler for 4th city in Uppsala in production
- Barracks in capital in production while it is growing and fighting double whip anger
- 1 or 2 forests pre-chopped
- Open borders with everyone
- Mansa is spreading Judaism but I didn't convert yet
- Espionage disclosed Mansa's research: IW, Sailing, AH and now Monarchy

Commerce is rather low. I needed to reduce the research slider to 80% already.

Big question at the moment is how to proceed with research: Nobody is trading tech. I have invested 1 turn into Alpha but still nobody is trading. I could switch to Masonry now as preparation for Construction and wait that tech trades are offered. Masonry would also give me the opportunity to build a stone quarry.

I can't build The Oracle yet because I don't have Priesthood.

Image and save attached.

 

[Seraiel]

Go Masonry -> Construction -> HBR. Building the Mids could be a powerful move for your research and happiness. Maybe you can chop them out somwhere.
If Uppsala has a Granary, you also should whip the Settler, that city doean't need to be larger than size 1 or 2 atm.

 

[Pangaea]

Don't run the slider at 80%. Run it at 100% if you can get the tech before you run out of money, and 0% if you need more gold first.

Mansa probably has Masonry already, so don't self-tech it. Does he have it, but when you hover over its icon in the trade screen, does it say "We have our reasons"? If so, it means he is building a wonder the technology unlocks, and therefore doesn't want to trade it. This is the only thing that can prevent Mansa from trading techs to you, unless he is royally p'd off.

edit: Or, err, well, go for Masonry ^^

 

[Seraiel]

He should bank gold at 0%, until he got enough to reasearch Construction with 100%. Mansa can not trade, because he doesn't have or tech Alpha.

 

[Todelotti]

Turn 80 - 875 BC

Tech trading time round 1!

Ramesses finally researched Alpha. I had to put another turn into Alpha, otherwise he didn't accept any trade. I traded then Alpha for Mathematics with him.

Attached is a screenshot what the others have to offer right now (no trade with Ramesses possible anymore atm). Unfortunately I've still not met the last civ, so we have only 4 possible trading partners atm.

These trades are possible this turn:

- Mysticism + Archery from Charlemagne (or Mansa) for Writing from me
- Sailing from Mansa (or Charlemagne) for Writing from me
- Archery from Gilgamesh for Writing from me (looks less attractive)
- Mysticism from Monty for Agriculture from me

Is it perhaps the best to trade Mysticism for Agri with Monty because I would get Mysticism for a rather outdated tech and it would open up Meditation and Polytheism to trade with the other civs? Or should I only trade with Charlemagne and Mansa this round for Mysti, Archery and Sailing?

 

[Seraiel]

You defiately have to get Sailing, as better Traderoutes mean more . Mysticism however would be nice to get those Sheeps back. You don't need to trade for Archery, but it won't hurt you either. On Deity, not trading for it can be good because of WFYABTA (we fear you are becoming too advanced) .
You also should gift the Civs that aren't WE of somebody some techs to get the +4 through fair trade relations.
You should not trade with the target you want to conquer first, but isolate him.
Also, check which bribes would be possible. AIs at war makes them trade less techs and it lowers their tech-rate ny 20% or more. Not something you want in a copetetive Space Race, but it definately makes the game easier.

 

[Pangaea]

MC for Mansa already, that's nice. He should lack Math too, so maybe you can already get MC for him for Alpha + Math. That would be great, and then you can get IW later or with somebody else.

You can choose to lock somebody out from trades, but other than that you can do the trades for Writing, and then next turn you'll be able to trade away Alpha and Math. Get Mysticism now, so you can get techs Mysticism unlocks next turn.

 

[Todelotti]

How do you decide who you target first? Looking at the attached map I'd say Monty (west) or Gilgamesh (north). Both are equally close to me. I could not tell whose land is more attractive (Monty has that Gold, Gilgamesh has horses). What looks more valuable? Both might have problems to expand and will perhaps become aggressive sooner or later. And isn't Monty the more aggressive one? For that reason I would probably decide to target Monty first and avoid tech trades with him.

The relationship between Monty, Gilgamesh and Charlemagne is pleased and the worst enemy of the three is Mansa. Don't know if that could seriously matter for war target selection. For tech trading it probably means I will get a standing penalty with those three if I trade a lot with Mansa, right?

The only one I could bribe into a war right now is Mansa. He would go for Charlemagne or Gilgamesh, however I apparently need to offer more than Writing. He's not willing to declare a war for Writing alone.

BTW: I guess, Mansa has Metal Casting from the Oracle because he has built it.

 

[Seraiel]

Yes, you can't trade for large techs line Metalcasting with Mansa right now. Maybe, when the others go to war with each other, their hate-target changes and then allows trading with Mansa.

Your first target most often is your cosest neoghbour, that's right. Monty wilm have more units but he'll also be more backwards. I'd fight Giggles first and then conquer Monty with more advanced units.

Can you not bribe Monty against someone? That'd be awesome.

 

[Todelotti]

Oh, just a question: If you look at my last screenshot with the map Monty has a fist symbol in his score sheet line. Doesn't that usually mean that he is at war with somebody? Point is that he is not war with somebody else in the score sheet - which would mean that he is at war with the last civ that I haven't even met yet! Is that possible? Or can the fist have another meaning than being at war?

 

[elitetroops]

The fist appears when bribing him to attack someone is red in the diplo screen with the explanation "We have enough on our hands right now". This means that he either is at war, or planning to go to war. He isn't at war now, which means he is planning to attack someone, most likely he's planning to attack you.

 

[Seraiel]

Also a possibility to decide which target to go for, have Monty on the map and let him decide .

You must pay high attention to the shared borders with him. If he attacks you, he's gonna go for the city in the west. Invest 1 into a wall there already. Move at least 1 Archer there and also invest 1 again, this time in an Archer or an Axe.

If he attacks, whip the units first, so they can still get a little fortification bonus 'til he attacks. Whip the Walls directly before he will attack.
Let's hope you have construction then already. A single suicide Cat could totally devestate the 5-8 units he'll send for you. Let the other cities probably also 2-pop 1 axe each and produce another one or an Archer from the overflow. This only works, if you invest less than 5 in the Axe on T1, more and you get a stupid 1 pop whip without overflow for a wnd unit.
If you have something line 7 defenders, you are 100% safe.

Once he has attacked and suicided his troops against your wall, go for the counter attack. Try to have a handful of Catapults 'til then and 1-2 Elephants would also be good.

And build a road towards the front, shouldn't you have done that already.

Monty dexlaring war against you is fortunate, as you won't get diplomatic maluses then. Monte also has high Courage, so he will attack, even if his chances are below 50%. This neans, that he will suicide all of his offensive units against your defenders who have great advantages (wall + top defender mechanic + fortify) .

 

[Todelotti]

Does it make sense to trade techs with Monty now to keep him quiet? Still 9 turns until Construction, so it might fail to get cats in time.