Improving on Monarch level

[elitetroops]

Trading techs doesn't help you directly. If you have Currency and can get him to pleased, you could then beg for gold, which would result in a 10 turn unbreakable peace treaty. But I'm not sure if +4 for fair trade even is enough to get him to pleased.

 

[Pangaea]

You may not get him to pleased even with +4 "fair" trading, and one way or another you'll fight him anyway, so may as well get it over with. Better start preparing for that, with for instance the stuff Seraiel mentioned. If the stone is hooked up you can 1-pop whip the wall as long as you have at least 1 invested in it.

 

[Seraiel]

Does it make sense to trade techs with Monty now to keep him quiet? Still 9 turns until Construction, so it might fail to get cats in time.

When an AI has decided ot wants to go to war, the only thing that help are 1. Gifting huge sums of money to the AI or 2. Gift as many Happines- and Healthyness resources to it as possible, then, with low to medium chances, it'll drop WHEEOOHRN status.

Monty goes to war because he's cautios, you got shared borders and he is able to produce his UU in the capital, so it's not because he needs money or resources.

Be glad that he wants to fight, if it's against you, you have the advantage of wrecking his stack in the defence, if it's against Mansa, you can simply DoW him once his stack has left your territory and is out of sight.

 

[Pangaea]

Do you have visual of his city there btw, so you can see the units inside it? He will attack from there, so if you see a buildup of forces there, you know he will strike soon. He MAY wander them through your territory to attack somebody else, but I doubt that will be the case here due to the layout of the land. Unless he despises somebody else I guess, maybe not too likely so early in the game, but check out the Glance screen to see if he is Annoyed with somebody else.

 

[Seraiel]

I believe Mansa is Monty's WE, but chances that he'll DoW him are quite small imo.

@ todelotti: daggers (direct declaration of war without red fist) are dangerous.

In this case you don't have to worry. Monty must still build troops too, it's extremely unlikely he'll declare in less than 10T, so you got more than enough time to do what I wrote.

 

[Seraiel]

Unless ofc. If that red fist has been there for 10T already ^^ . Checking every turn fir red fists is tremendiously imprtant. Pay attention to that aftet you end your turn, when it's AIs turn. Also check it, if you're denying a demand. Denying demands had always the chance that the AI will be angry about that and start plotting against you. How likely that is depends on the AI.

As AIs often also beg or demand for something when they are already in WHEEOHRN, check before and after the demand. If the AI already is plotting, you can almist safelY deny. An AI DoWing me whime it was already at war has happened once in 4y to me.

 

[Todelotti]

OK, following Seraiel's plan now:

- 6 hammers invested into wall
- Uppsala has 2 warriors and I'm moving an Axe and an Archer to the city
- Uppsala has a few hammers invested into an Axe and is building another Archer now
- Capital could 2-pop-whip another Axe
- The 4th city is building an Archer as well
- Worker starts building a road between Capital and Uppsala

Haithabu is building the Pyramids at the moment. I'd like to avoid disturbing this project with building anything else, if possible.

Regarding tech trading:

- I have traded Mysticism and Archery for Writing with Charlemagne
- Traded Sailing for Writing with Mansa

(BTW: Construction came 1 turn closer after I got Sailing. I guess, because I have foreign trade routes now and therefore a little more commerce/beakers.)

Now the following trades were possible:

- Meditation+Polytheism for Math with Charlemagne
- Iron Working for Math with Mansa. (Mansa doesn't trade Metal Casting for Math+Alpha, maybe because he is already researching Alpha himself.)

Are those trades OK and should I accept them?

@Pangaea: Monty is annoyed with Mansa and Ramesses. I've attached the Foreign Advisor. I was visiting his city that is closest to my border a few turns ago and there were only 2 units in there (Axe and Archer, I believe). Also his other cities didn't have more units but that visit is like 10 turns ago, so it might have changed.

 

[Todelotti]

Unless ofc. If that red fist has been there for 10T already...

Oh, the red fist is indeed since a few turns there, but not 10, maybe 3 or 4, I'm not sure. Does that mean he is probably building a stack since the red fist appeared the first time?

 

[Seraiel]

Take the trades you mentioned, also the IW one. Be careful though and trade only one tech to Mansa. Try Aloha first, if not, take Maths. The more the trade is uneven, so you offering more than him, the more maluses you get from the others, but Maths against IW is quite even and it's still early, so enough time to make AI forget about that you traded with him.

And yes, if the red fist is there since 3 turns, he's already building a stack since then. Don't worry though, walls + 7 units and you'll be safe, I promise.

 

[Pangaea]

I want Aloha too

 

[Seraiel]

I want Aloha too

Trade for it with Currency

 

[Todelotti]

Turn 92 - 575 BC

- Montezuma still showing his fist but no DoW yet
- Uppsala is infested now with 3 Archers, 3 Axes, 2 Warriors and 2 Cats
- Another 2 Cats will be finished soon
- Pyramids completed
- Construction finished, researching HBR now (6 turns to go)
- Traded tech with Charlemagne twice
- Traded tech with Mansa three times (sorry , with trading Priesthood+Monotheism for Math he made me an offer I couldn't refuse in the last turn, but I can go back if trading three times with Mansa was a seriously bad move)
- Hell, where is the last civ? Still not met them. They must be behind Ramesses in the far east or north-east or south-east. Or maybe someone killed them already...

Main questions:

- Well, I have the Pyramids! Should I change Government civic now (Representation or HR?)?
- What to do with religion? Mansa spread Judaism (his state religion) in 3 of my cities and Hinduism in 1 city (helps now to push borders without Monuments). Ramesses is in Judaism as well and Monty/Charlemagne have Buddhism. Giggles no religion. If I would convert I could also change the religion civic to OR.
- Normally I would build libraries in my satellite cities now (chopping a work boat for Birka (city 4) and Crabs first). Or is it better for our plan to pile up cats until HBR is completed and then build war elephants everywhere?

My land is quite squeezed from almost every side (except tundra south), see screenshot. I need to explode soon. Still not sure if against Monty or Gilgamesh. But I guess we can finally decide if I have war elephants. And perhaps Monty will decide it earlier anyway...

New screenshot and game save is attached again.

 

[Seraiel]

Hard decisions.

First: I'd go with Judaism. You have more Jewish cities, Ramesses will become your friend if you run his religion + OR (his favourite civic) and you have no plans of wiping out Mansa.
Use OR to spread Judaism to the missing city, Mansa not send a missionary fast (he probably will) .

Gratz to getting the Mids. Switch to REP, it's the reason why you build them. With REP, every Specialist gives +3 , that's a lot! Scientists will give 6 and even normal citizen specialists give 1 + 3 . You also get a Happines-cap increase of 3 in your x largest cities (don't know the exact number, look at civic screen) . That changes everything. Your capital can now grow large and work many Cottages, while you want to farm all other cities to run many Specialists in peace times.

Build that Workboat you wrote about, food is more important than anything in CIV.

Don't build Libraries except in the capital dor now, you need some Elephants once you hot HBR, so that you can DoW Monty. Produce at least 5 Cats and 10 offensive units (Axes + Elephants) , if he doesn't have declared war 'til then, you declare. Try to beg something from the civs you are pleased with (should hopefully be everybody except monty, if not, gift them some more techs until you got +4 from trade) , a Resource for example. If they agree, you'll get a 10T peace treaty, so monty cannot bribe anyone against you if you time it with the DoW.

If you got further questions, ask.

 

[Seraiel]

What's important now, is, that you get those units fast, and without too much whipping, because you want to grow your cities ao they can work specialists. Try to chop out the troops therefore.

Also: hire 2 scientists in the capital so you get a GS for an Academy. Don't whip your capital anymore, let it grow to happycap with working both foods, build enough Cottages.

Research should go for Currency because it's likely that Mansa or Ramesses will choose CoL, they love religious techs. You can trade it from them then, if Ramesses is friendly, which should be easy.

Have you already experience in fighting with siege weapons, so do you know the difference between bombarding and collateral?

 

[Seraiel]

Looked very closely. You still can found 2 cities, 1 at the Gold + FPs (neeed soon, otherwise mansa will get that slot) and another one at the clambs + ivory. So we somehow have to magically get out 2 Settlers on top. Can the Mids-city maybe produce the Settler for thw Gold? Don't forget, that Cata + WEs are also very important, so don't delay those.

 

[kevtrev]

Turn 92 - 575 BC
- Well, I have the Pyramids! Should I change Government civic now (Representation or HR?)?

Police State ftw!

- Normally I would build libraries in my satellite cities now (chopping a work boat for Birka (city 4) and Crabs first). Or is it better for our plan to pile up cats until HBR is completed and then build war elephants everywhere?

Build units. You don't need to tech, you need an army. Currency is the last tech you'll need once HBR is in.

Just had a look at the save.

-Monty has 8 units in Teotihuacan, nowhere near enough to take you. You can wait for him to suicide, or take his city with elepult if he doesn't attack in time. He has to be your first target.

-2-whip a barracks in Uppsala. Don't work those unimproved tiles! [EDIT: you can't 2 whip it because you're AGG, so forget this]

-Are you going to finish the GS in Nidaros? You don't really need the beakers, but an Academy will complement the library and the cottaged tiles. It can produce some catapults by chopping.

-Uppsala and Birka are probably going to be in 4->2 whip cycles, meaning Uppsala needs another farm and Birka another tile, probably the green hill mine. Haithabu can stay as it is and build a cata every 3 turns, or borrow the corn and 4-2 whip too.

 

[Seraiel]

@ kevtrev: If you make him win with Elephants, he'll play a great game, but he won't learn anything, that's why I handle rhe game as if it were Deity.

And sucks that I cannot open saves currently, good that you do that.

I'd propose another Cat instead of the Barracks whip btw.

Managing PS btw. could be difficult because of Happiness. How much whipping anger do his cities got atm.?

 

[Todelotti]

Wow, guys, what a lot of helpful input! For now I can only answer some of the questions and re-ask something. Need to take a closer look tomorrow!

Try to beg something from the civs you are pleased with (should hopefully be everybody except monty, if not, gift them some more techs until you got +4 from trade) , a Resource for example...

Right now I'm only pleased with Mansa. All others are cautious. If I convert to Judaism I'll have to gift something to Charly probably because he won't like my chosen religion. I have a resource trade with him however and those 2 tech trades. And I might consider to gift something to Gilgamesh to stabilize relationship (there was a random event that gave me a -1 with Giggles). Have to decide in detail after converting to Judaism.

Have you already experience in fighting with siege weapons, so do you know the difference between bombarding and collateral?

I come back with questions about that when the cats are rolling

Can the Mids-city maybe produce the Settler for thw Gold? Don't forget, that Cata + WEs are also very important, so don't delay those.

Probably yes and fast (I believe Haithabu is whip-ready). Will try that.

Police State ftw!

Seriously? SERIOUSLY? NOW already?

Are you going to finish the GS in Nidaros?

Yes, I would like to try that if it doesn't conflict with the other tasks too much. I had 0, 1 or 2 scientists hired on and off to stay below happy cap during the last 20 or 30 turns. I think I'm quite close to a GS.

More tomorrow. Good night!

 

[Todelotti]

Oh, forgot this question: Is there a way to convert religion and switch to OR in one turn (or at least with only 1 turn anarchy)? In my earlier games it always resulted in a 2-turn-anarchy.

 

[elitetroops]

Nope, not unless you are in a golden age. The Great Artist from music can be used for this, though it comes quite late. Sometimes it's still worth waiting with religion until then.