Improving on Monarch level

[Todelotti]

Ready...

...Launched...

...And Flying:

Amazingly, Zara is plotting - most likely against me. There is a big stack of Cavalry and Rifles in his city closest to me (however, there is a bit Egypt between Zara and me). Not that I was really worried - I think I could pump out tanks and bombers and what not fast enough or just let him take one or two cities, it doesn't matter anymore - but the easy solution was to sign a defensive pact with Ramesses. Zara's red fist disappeared after that.

 

[Seraiel]

Congratiulations on your win Todelotti .

Spaceraces are the most complicated games in CIV, and imo. you played really well . I looked up the Monarch HoF games, and believe it or not, but the finish dates are between 16xx and 19xx, so with a different map-size, you could have achieved a #1 entry, and that from a non-HoF start with random opponents!

If I were you, I'd get myself BUFFY, install it, and join the fun of hunting world-firsts . Only thing that's not possible anymore then, is that you can't post the save, so noone will be able to play along with you. Imo. getting a HoF #1 slot is more rewarding though than comparing against other opponents on the same map, and if I wanted others to play on the same map, I'd play GOTM (on which I'll start during the next months btw. , because I now got my HoF Elite Quattromaster achievement ) .
Ofc. , this must not be what you want if you're a non-competetive player, but if not, I'd at least took a look at them, because imo., they're great fun .

 

[Todelotti]

Just for quick completeness: The game is over and ended at Turn 286 - 1832 AD with a Space Race Victory!

Congratiulations on your win Todelotti .

Spaceraces are the most complicated games in CIV, and imo. you played really well . I looked up the Monarch HoF games, and believe it or not, but the finish dates are between 16xx and 19xx, so with a different map-size, you could have achieved a #1 entry, and that from a non-HoF start with random opponents!

If I were you, I'd get myself BUFFY, install it, and join the fun of hunting world-firsts . Only thing that's not possible anymore then, is that you can't post the save, so noone will be able to play along with you. Imo. getting a HoF #1 slot is more rewarding though than comparing against other opponents on the same map, and if I wanted others to play on the same map, I'd play GOTM (on which I'll start during the next months btw. , because I now got my HoF Elite Quattromaster achievement ) .
Ofc. , this must not be what you want if you're a non-competetive player, but if not, I'd at least took a look at them, because imo., they're great fun .

Thanks Seraiel for the congrats! But first of all I must say a big Thank You to you and Pangaea and all the other players that supported my game! I've learned a huge amount of game features that I even didn't know about before this game, strategic approaches and how to play much better than before. Imagine that 2 or 3 month ago Noble level was crushing me and now I'm playing my first Immortal game already parallel to this game and haven't lost yet (however, much tougher, but that's another story for another thread), thanks to this game and this helpful forum!

I've already looked around btw what interesting things I could do next and this HoF Challenge Series looks attractive because it features different victory types, different map types and just seems to be a very varied challenge. Maybe I'll try at least some of the games. Competition with other players definitely adds some spice to the game!

But I think the bigger congrats must go to you for your Elite Quattromaster title! I don't know exactly what all is required to achieve that but I've understood it's huge and something like the ultimate crown of Civ 4 playing!

 

[Pangaea]

Congratulations with the victory, Todelotti

Glad to hear you have learnt a lot. Space races are very difficult and demanding, so this was a great game for learning more about the game, and not just about Cuir stomping everybody

Game 9 and 10 in the Challenge series is space races, though the former is only at Warlords level. If you want more space experience, maybe these would be good, but there is much variety in that series, so pick and choose what you want.

If you haven't read much about it yet, there is also this mammoth thread of the current G-Major, which is a space race. Lots of great tips in there.

I must apologise in advance for some rants. You don't want to see the titles of some of my savegames....

 

[Todelotti]

Congratulations with the victory, Todelotti

Glad to hear you have learnt a lot. Space races are very difficult and demanding, so this was a great game for learning more about the game, and not just about Cuir stomping everybody

Game 9 and 10 in the Challenge series is space races, though the former is only at Warlords level. If you want more space experience, maybe these would be good, but there is much variety in that series, so pick and choose what you want.

If you haven't read much about it yet, there is also this mammoth thread of the current G-Major, which is a space race. Lots of great tips in there.

I must apologise in advance for some rants. You don't want to see the titles of some of my savegames....

Thanks Pangaea for the congratulations! I've already looked a bit into the mammoth thread every now and then. Looks very exciting, maybe next time I can participate and win the special badge of being the slowest of all players

 

[Pangaea]

Thanks Pangaea for the congratulations! I've already looked a bit into the mammoth thread every now and then. Looks very exciting, maybe next time I can participate and win the special badge of being the slowest of all players

Just be aware that this is a very hotly contested award

 

[Seraiel]

Just be aware that this is a very hotly contested award

Yes, and either WastinTime or I will win it . I've spend as many hours in my game as you in yours, only that I'm not even 500 BC while you're already 500 AD, and WastinTime, he either has no time to play, doesn't tell anything about it, or he's still 1500 BC since over 1 month ^^ .

 

[elitetroops]

Congrats, that's a very nice date indeed!

I've already looked around btw what interesting things I could do next and this HoF Challenge Series looks attractive because it features different victory types, different map types and just seems to be a very varied challenge. Maybe I'll try at least some of the games. Competition with other players definitely adds some spice to the game!

Yes, please, join the fun. The Challenge series brings lots of variation. Overall I'd say this new series is quite easy and you could probably complete them all. The only immortal game is an AP game and even the deity game should be quite doable with small map and epic speed. The emperor games should be quite easy as well, one quechua rush and the other a future culture game (which quite frankly I have no idea how to play...). But of course, the challenge is not to beat the game, but to beat other players. In last challenge series I spent the most time by far on a settler level Religious game...

 

[Seraiel]

I think it was in this thread, that someone asked for economical tips and I told him that I was writing an article about that atm.: It's finished

 

[Jivilov]

Spaceraces are the most complicated games in CIV, and imo.

Interesting. Been playing Civ4 on and off for years, and in the dozen or so wins (out of perhaps 100 seriously prosecuted attempts) ALL of them were Spaceraces. Even the single Emperor win (on Warlords) was building the SS. A friend who introduced me to Civ4 and never got beyond Prince said it was "the only way to win" so he gave it up! Believing he knew more, I lost interest in the game as well.

Until now. After reading the forums (fora?) and checking out a few strategies I've been using the whip with greater zeal than before. Just yesterday got my first Domination win ever (Monarch on Vanilla) against the infamous Huayna Capac. (We were on separate yet proximate continents; fortunately his was smaller so after cleaning out the local opposition victory conditions were achieved.)

Anyway the aforementioned buddy has lost contact. Too bad, since it would be nice to tell him that yes, there are other ways to win this incredible game! Cheers.

 

[slengtorm]

Congratulations, OP. Very enjoyable thread. I, too, have sometimes found that space is "the only way to win," meaning that I start out without a specific victory condition in mind, and the game ends up continuing to a late enough date that it becomes basically my only choice. Will try to achieve some other victory conditions when I return to the game. Hopefully soon.

 

[elitetroops]

On the lower levels space becomes the easy way to win when you build too many unnecessary buildings and wonders, and don't leverage whipping and military enough. Especially if you like to play continents maps. I know I did before I found CFC, and like the 2 posters above I probably had more space winds than military victories. But once you realize that all you need to do is let the whip sing and mass produce units, it becomes so much faster and easier to achieve military victories.

 

[Pangaea]

When saying that space is the most demanding victory type, we mean when playing well. It's easy to win by domination or conquest and get a good date. Just whip stuff non-stop until you run out of opponents to kill.

To win by space with a good date (i.e. not by 'accident' in 2032AD), you need to balance many aspects. Wage war effectively, keep the economy under control, get good research, keep diplomacy under control so you don't get declared on and you can trade technologies and resources, transition the economy towards more hammers, and then ultimately build the spaceship in a timely manner. All of this is a lot more tricky than just whip Cuirassiers and kill everybody, to be blunt about it.

When one aren't very experienced or knowledgeable, it's probably easier to win by space, because one gets in a position where none of the AIs get big or powerful enough, and one can't really do anything oneself either, because you have built too many buildings and not developed the economy enough. So you're sort of in a neck-by-neck race of snails where neither pulls ahead. Until one of you manage to finish the spaceship and launch it.

Then you learn about the power of the whip, and there is a seismic shift

 

[Jivilov]

When saying that space is the most demanding victory type, we mean when playing well. It's easy to win by domination or conquest and get a good date.

To win by space with a good date (i.e. not by 'accident' in 2032AD), you need to balance many aspects.

OK thanks, so what would the cognoscenti deem a "good date"? Would it be possible to win by SS before, say, 1500 AD on Immortal, or even Emperor? It boggles the mind, but you guys are magicians.

(Belated congrats to Todelotti BTW. Well done! )

 

[elitetroops]

OK thanks, so what would the cognoscenti deem a "good date"? Would it be possible to win by SS before, say, 1500 AD on Immortal, or even Emperor? It boggles the mind, but you guys are magicians.

You can see the HoF records for each difficulty, map size and game speed here.

Currently there are no normal speed pre 1500AD space victories above Prince level. The best are around 1550AD. On Marathon speed the best deity space game is 700AD and the ongoing G-major gauntlet is aiming at improving this.

 

[Pangaea]

1500AD on normal speed would probably be very difficult, but something like 16xx-17xxAD is more reasonable, and shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Seraiel]

As already written, on Monarch in the HoF, there are various 18xx - 19xx Space Races, so with slightly other settings (map-size etc. ) , this could have been a #1.

 

[Todelotti]

Thanks for all the new Congrats!

@Jivilov: I had the same experience like you and your friend in my early games: I was just running into either a loss or a Space Race or a Time/Score victory because I didn't know how to play properly. However, I believe that only works on the lower levels because the game just lets you win if you play long enough. On the higher difficulties you simply lose.

This game was very different: It wasn't a space race because nothing else worked but a deliberate space race with the goal to achieve a good date. And I think a key element and absolutely necessary was going to war and conquer land and cities to improve wealth and research more and more. I cannot imagine that you can win a good date in a space race without warring because you'll lack the necessary expansion of your empire in order to grow economy, research and production. Maybe the ideal amount of war is just to go close to the domination limit and then stop because you want to target a space race victory. A good space race victory is a deliberately rejected domination victory, so to speak.

The second long phase of the game - after my three wars - wasn't boring at all. There are so many things you can improve and think about to get faster to your space ship: Key techs like Electricity where you suddenly improve when you destroy some mines and build windmills instead or Biology where you can improve by converting farms to workshops, targeting Golden Ages to boost the economy over a few turns, optimizing the research order for the late techs, selecting the right civics, dealing with health and happiness in your growing cities, leveraging espionage and managing a lot of details regarding cities and tile working. (Well, if you have Seraiel in your thread you have no other choice than caring about every detail anyway )

Of course that makes the game lasting a lot longer and is perhaps not enjoyable for everyone but playing a Space Race this way is very different and much more fun and satisfying than a Space Race as the last resort.

 

[Jivilov]

You can see the HoF records for each difficulty, map size and game speed here.

Currently there are no normal speed pre 1500AD space victories above Prince level. The best are around 1550AD. On Marathon speed the best deity space game is 700AD and the ongoing G-major gauntlet is aiming at improving this.

Thanks for the link. But didn't Wastin Time get three SR wins (two by 1450AD and one by 1390AD) on normal speed before 1500AD at Deity? In fact nobody else seems to have beaten that time limit on normal speed at any level. Or am I missing something?

 

[elitetroops]

You should look at "S Col" for BTS space colony victories. "Space" is for old vanilla and warlords games (where the game was won by launching the ship, not launching and waiting for it to arrive, like in BTS).