Improving Protective and Imperialistic traits through espionage

[Haethcyn]

I don't have BTS, but I figured that this might be an idea for those of you who do to mull around. I would put this in the suggestions forum, but I'm thinking I'd get more responses here. Plus, the suggestions forum seems to be more of a request than a discussion type place.

I guess that people generally feel that protective and imperialistic are the two weakest traits. With the new espionage system, I think that maybe a boost could be given to these two traits by playing around with the espionage system. Perhaps making it a lot more difficult to perform passive espionage and missions on protective leaders with a boost in production towards building security bureau. Imperial leaders, on the other hand, get a small boost - cheapening the costs of passive espionage and espionage missions. I don't have BTS, so I can't tell how heavily this would effect gameplay. I think it'd be a nice bonus though. Maybe a boost in production in spies and generating bonus EP from the capital too for both traits. I think that'd even things out.

Protective will still be a mildly weak trait, but I think imperialistic will turn into something that's more desirable. Maybe the maintenance cost for archery and gunpowder units could be reduced for protective as well, or maybe give protective leaders a +1 happiness bonus with construction of walls and castles? What do you think?

 

[MrTomothy]

I guess that people generally feel that protective and imperialistic are the two weakest traits.

...Lol. You obviously haven't played with/against the Chinese, or Catherine. The Cho-Ko-Nu or city spamming is a force to reckon with.

I'm completely happy with these traits, however, something that would benefit the espionage would be cool.

 

[Haethcyn]

The Chinese have a UU that benefits from protective. Not every civilization has that same good fortune. Churchill benefits. I don't think that imperialistic needs as strong as an espionage bonus as Protective does.

Edit: To clarify, it's about making these traits more attractive as a whole. I understand the arguments for why they can be strong traits, but any trait can be strong under the right circumstances. Protective as it is now means good archery units and gunpowder units (especially you, Japan). But honestly, who waits to get kicked around in Civ? Imperialistic is significantly stronger, but it's still a little lacking when you compare it to other run-of-the-mill traits like Creative. Protective getting some sort of defense against espionage and perhaps some sort of added bonus like charismatic's +1 happiness with monuments would make me more inclined to value it. Or I could be full of it. Anyways, debate away.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Protective is a great Trait, with Castles being very good, and Drill promotions open to Gunpowder units. It makes it easier to absorb counter attacks when you get involved in a war, because even your city attacking units get a defensive bonus (after they move into the conquered city)

Imperialistic is a bit weak, but the only thing I would suggest to improve it is allowing Food to get bonuses when producing Settlers+Workers. (since otherwise micromanagement is encouraged)

Great Generals could also be improved
allow Military Academies to be built early with a +25% bonus (Military Science makes it a +50% bonus)
[also make the Heroic Epic only +50% but gives 1 GG point per unit built at it]
Make Leaders get 1 or 2 Free Promotions, and increase the Experience given to 30 or 40.

 

[Norbert]

Protective is a great Trait, with Castles being very good, and Drill promotions open to Gunpowder units. It makes it easier to absorb counter attacks when you get involved in a war, because even your city attacking units get a defensive bonus (after they move into the conquered city)

snip

I'm not sure "great" is the right word...it's a tolerable trait certainly, not like say, expansive, but I'd rather have aggressive or charismatic plus a more "peacelike" trait....

 

[bonafide11]

Neither trait is bad at all. I think Protective is fine as it is, but I'd like to see Imperialist receive double production of Jails.