Improving Spies

frankT

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
16
Location
Austin, TX
In my recent games I've done some experimenting with spies/agents, essentially seeing how to get the best use out of them. Looked to see if someone else had already mentioned their uses and didn't find anything so here is my attempt to give something back to the forum. I'd love to learn more about how other people maximize their agent use in game, so please correct and expand on the following as appropriate.

It appears that agents are good for the following actions:

1. Protecting your techs from stealing by other civs
2. Stealing techs from other civs
3. Improving relationships with civ-states
4. Providing diplomatic support in other civ capitals

It seems the best way to handle all of these is to have the most advanced agents in the field. The best means I've discovered to promote agents is place them in your capital and let them kill other civ agents that are trying to steal your hard researched techs. This technique works best if you are near or leading in the tech tree, but even if your not in the lead it can definitely be applied as the turns advance and your own tech gains on the leaders.

Basically, what I do is rotate my agents through my capital. If they manage to kill an enemy agent or two they get a promotion. If your in the lead, there is always someone there to kill. When you get your second agent, move the experienced one to another civ or civ-state and place the new one in your capital. Using this technique I've managed to get 5 agents, two maxxed out with with 2 promotions, the other three with 1 promotion.

Any thoughts or suggestions on improving this?
 
I like leveling up my spies, but really there are only a few things that a Level 3 agent does better than a Level 1. I just recently learned that without a spy in the city, your technology gets stolen without notification about a third of the time.

Using this technique I've managed to get 5 agents, two maxxed out with with 2 promotions, the other three with 1 promotion.

Is that before NIA?
 
I play on Emperor level, so I'm always behind on tech until the industrial era.

So, I always send my first spy to a non-capital but still big enemy city, because I'm sure there's no counterspy there and I can get the first promotion with zero risk.

After being promoted, I send him to another non-capital city in another civ.

Note that sending spies to enemy capitals allows faster tech stealing at first, but eventually those cities will have counterspionage spies and buildings.

I only put a counterspy in my capital after he becomes a special agent. Until then, my spies go from city to city being promoted.

Once I become the tech leader, my spies are assigned to rig election in CSs.
 
No sir, no suggestions - what you're doing is indeed optimal. A human opponent/better AI would of course stop sending suicidal 'recruit' spies to level up yours after the XXth time they've been killed but since we're stuck with what AI Firaxis felt was sufficient, killing their spies over and over is indeed a good way to level up your own spies (followed by the absurd and meaningless dialogue of whether you want to 'forgive' their espionage, I mean, WTF?). However, if an AI has managed to steal several techs from you you need to get one of your 'special agent' level spies back in the capital ASAP since your recruit there likely won't be able to stop them before they steal several more.

One thing worth noting about espionage is that you can ask other civs to stop spying on you even before they have actually stolen anything, by going into the 'discuss' menu in diplomacy with them. Unless your relations with them are really bad, most AIs will then actually live up to their pledge and not spy on you for a large (30+?) number of turns. If you are willing to take the [small] diplomatic hit, telling everybody not to spy on you as soon as you enter the Renaissance era can be a good way to delay the AI tech stealing if you are the tech leader. Some Ais are completely untrustworthy, however (Shaka, Genghis) and will gladly continue spying even after giving their word they're stopping and even if you have declared friendship.
 
Not optimal - the above.

Optimal - send you new spies to other civs who are NOT the tech leader. The will succeed at stealing and get promoted faster. Then you can send the promoted spies to do other jobs like defend the cap.
 
I'll pay more attention to the promotion phases for spies outside of my capital.

Normally, the first spy goes to whoever is leading tech so they can steal one or more before I move them. When the second spy appears, move Spy #1 to capital, move Spy #2 to 2nd tech leader (assuming I'm still behind). Repeat for subsequent spies until I have tech lead, then send them to civ-states for coups.

Seems to work well so far, but would really like to know how much a spy improves by promotion. Is it 10%, 15%, or more spying/protection per level?
 
The tech leader at Deity & Immortal is going to counterspy in the cap and you will die. You need to keep an eye on your spy's progress because if the person you are spying on becomes tech leader in the interim, then there will be a counterspy and you will die.
 
Question :
Do diplomats get XP while sitting in the tech leader city ?

I have always assumed they don't get XP this way. does anyone know for sure?
 
The tech leader at Deity & Immortal is going to counterspy in the cap and you will die. You need to keep an eye on your spy's progress because if the person you are spying on becomes tech leader in the interim, then there will be a counterspy and you will die.
That's why I always put them in non-capital cities.
 
On the concurrent Exact spying figures (success rates, etc) thread Magma_Dragoon pulled the numbers out of the code. Here is a summary table, just missing the coup stats:
counter espionage |none|Level 1|Level 2|Level 3
Chance to Notice|66%|100%|100%|100%
Chance to ID|33%|67%|77%|87%
Chance to kill|0|33%|43%|57%

I think its a waste to have a Level 3 spy in your own Cap because (1) they are not that much better than a Level 1 spy, and (2) you miss out on arguably the best way to level up your spies. That said, except for CS competition, the only thing experienced spies are really better at is stealing tech.
 
On the concurrent Exact spying figures (success rates, etc) thread Magma_Dragoon pulled the numbers out of the code. Here is a summary table, just missing the coup stats:
counter espionage |none|Level 1|Level 2|Level 3
Chance to Notice|66%|100%|100%|100%
Chance to ID|33%|67%|77%|87%
Chance to kill|0|33%|43%|57%

I think its a waste to have a Level 3 spy in your own Cap because (1) they are not that much better than a Level 1 spy, and (2) you miss out on arguably the best way to level up your spies. That said, except for CS competition, the only thing experienced spies are really better at is stealing tech.

???
57% to kill is much better than 33% to kill.
 
Fair point JonCNun, and it is a higher chance to kill than I had thought. Another way to look at it is that a Level 3 spy is 50% more likely to kill than Level 1. But unless my spies are all Level 3, it feels more like a wasted opportunity that could have been better used to level up a Level 1 or Level 2 spy.
 
Level 2 and 3 spies are so much better at coup-ing CS I find it very important to try to level them up before sending them to CSs.

Leveling is easily down by parking new spies in capital on low difficulty. On Deity you can send your first spy to steal, you often can get to level 3 by stealing 2 tech in 20-30turns total and then park the other one since by industrialisation you should have closed the tech gap.
 
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