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In God Some of us Trust...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by MobBoss, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/14/group-seeks-block-god-trust-engraving/?test=latestnews

    I actually have a solution to this. Perhaps the engraving should say "In God We Trust - But Atheists Trust No One".

    Eh? Yes? No?

    Anyway, since this group (and others) have been unsuccessful in getting the same phrase off our currency or out of the Pledge what do you think their odds are of winning this one?

    And secondly, how do our local democrats feel about this measure being passed by both the house and senate? And doesnt Obama have to sign these measures? Opinon there?

    EDIT: Heh, it occurs to me that this would be a great question for Judge Soto-Mayor for her hearing!!!
     
  2. illram

    illram Deity Retired Moderator

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    I'd say prominently engraving "In God We Trust" into government buildings is unconstitutional, yes. Something that keeps me up at night? No. Unconstitutional? Yes.

    How myopic.
     
  3. Mowque

    Mowque Hypermodernist

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    This sum my stance up too. Thanks for saving me the typing illram.
     
  4. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    However, SCOTUS has ruled that its ok to be on our currency and in our pledge has it not?

    As long as the comments are not specific to any singular religion, then whats the problem?
     
  5. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Deity

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    That would be false.

    And regarding the topic, it's a silly suit. However, the atheists and agnostics in this case are correct. But it's not worth pursuing.
     
  6. LightFang

    LightFang "I'm the hero!"

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    This.
     
  7. Abaddon

    Abaddon Deity

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    Why did it take til 1957 to get onto coins anyway? If the "tradition" is only that old, I say can it.

    Religion should be seperate from STATE
     
  8. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    I don't actually think SCOTUS has ruled on that. The pledge case was denied on standing grounds to avoid the issue altogether. Doubt the conservative SC would uphold the case, though.

    It's specific to abrahamic, monotheistic religions.
     
  9. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    Sums up my stance also.
    :lol: :rolleyes:
     
  10. Huayna Capac357

    Huayna Capac357 Deity

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    QFT-ed.

    And lol at the Judeo-Christian bit. So is Europe based on Greco-Roman values? Should they put a statue of Zeus at the EU Parliament? Actually, the first real city in the US was Cahokia, so we should have a "In Red Horn We Trust" shouldn't we?
     
  11. Shadylookin

    Shadylookin master debater

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    but we can trust lots of things.

    Probably pretty low. When they're pitching the ideas in congress it's about our Judeo-Christian heritage(ignoring that there's no such thing), but when it comes time for the courts to rule they say it's just "ceremonial deism"

    I think they're wrong. I guess republicans have never disagreed with anything their fellow republicans have ever done?
     
  12. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Only those religions use the word 'God'?
     
  13. Miles Teg

    Miles Teg Nuclear Powered Mentat

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    Only those religions invoke a single, nameless god.
     
  14. West 36

    West 36 Can count up to 4

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    There is no need to engrave that, the Pledge has some reason, but 'In God We Trust' does not.
     
  15. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    Maybe Zoroastrianism, but it's dualistic, not monotheistic, so you're really stretching it. Certainly none of the Indic, East Asian, or Pagan religions.
     
  16. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    A religious person who does not want absolute separation of church and state doesn't really understand religion or history.

    These atheists are fighting the fight that Christians should be fighting!
     
  17. Mowque

    Mowque Hypermodernist

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    As a devout Catholic, I think this is true.

    Cutlass this is the second thread where I have done little more then quote you. Stop making so much sense.
     
  18. illram

    illram Deity Retired Moderator

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    SCOTUS has never actually ruled on the merits of it. They denied cert in one case (a case almost the same as this one) and have spoken of it in dicta in others. The pledge case was thrown out for lack of standing IIRC. Lower courts have said this is OK, even though this issue has never even got to discovery. But yes, realistically the issue is all but dead in the water and will not get anywhere without some sort of major cultural shift in the other direction. I would not really like my chances arguing this in court, obviously. But I still think that technically, this is government establishment of religion.

    The reason I don't think it's a big deal is in my opinion the phrase has become so meaningless as to not actually endorse or establish religion in most people's eyes. We see it everyday. That's why I kind of think "meh" when the issue comes up. But, eliminate that everyday bias and think about the phrase: "In God We Trust." It's written above the seat of the speaker of the house, isn't it? We, the Nation, trust in God, according to Congress. That to me seems to be a fairly cut-and-dry establishment of religion does it not?

    And as for "God" being all inclusive, almost half of the world adheres to a religion that does not believe in "God" or anything like the "God" of the Jewish, Muslim or Christian faith. A Hindu sees that phrase and thinks "which one?"
     
  19. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    And in that case the hindu is absolutely free to decide which one it applies to. ;)
     
  20. Imperialmajesty

    Imperialmajesty Emperor

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    It will take another 30-50 years to get rid of In God We Trust off our currency, simply because it benefits no political party to attempt to get rid of it, kinda like Don't Ask Don't Tell. In fact, it would hurt whatever party attempted it.
     

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